Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Vatican may have found late pope's 'miracle'
CNN ^ | January 30, 2006 | Philip Pullella

Posted on 01/30/2006 7:43:33 AM PST by NYer

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) -- The Vatican may have found the "miracle" they need to put the late Pope John Paul II one step closer to sainthood -- the medically inexplicable healing of a French nun with the same Parkinson's disease that afflicted him.

Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the Catholic Church official in charge of promoting the cause to declare the late pope a saint of the Church, told Reuters on Monday that an investigation into the healing had cleared an initial probe by doctors.

Oder said the "relatively young" nun, whom he said he could not identify for now, was inexplicably cured of Parkinson's after praying to John Paul after his death last April 2.

"I was moved," Oder said in a telephone interview. "To think that this was the same illness that destroyed the Holy Father and it also kept this poor nun from carrying out her work."

John Paul suffered from Parkinson's Disease during the last decade of his life. His body trembled violently and he could not pronounce his words or control his facial muscles.

"To me, this is another sign of God's creativity," he said, adding that the nun worked with children.

He said Church investigators would now start a more formal and detailed probe of the suspected miracle cure.

The process that could lead to sainthood for John Paul began in May when Rome archdiocese published an edict asking Catholics to come forward with evidence "in favor or against" John Paul's reputation of holiness.

One proven miracle is required after John Paul's death for the cause to lead to beatification.

It must be the result of prayers asking the dead pope to intercede with God. Miracles are usually a physical healing that doctors are at a loss to explain.

Another miracle would be necessary between beatification and eventual sainthood.

(Excerpt) Read more at edition.cnn.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: jpii; miracle; pope; vatican
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200201-237 next last

John Paul II died at the age of 84 on April 2, 2005.
1 posted on 01/30/2006 7:43:34 AM PST by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...
Catholic Ping - Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


2 posted on 01/30/2006 7:44:05 AM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer

Come on Catholics. Seriously....

If you are praying to anyone other than God you need to read up on your verses again.


4 posted on 01/30/2006 7:47:07 AM PST by Almondjoy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FerdieMurphy
It is a miracle that nice threads like these, always attract fine examples of Christians, like you...
5 posted on 01/30/2006 7:47:38 AM PST by Theoden (Fidei Defensor - Deus vult!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Men don't decide who is to be a saint. All of the faithful are saints in God's eyes and conferring sainthood on a person based on whether someone in the Catholic Church can X all the right boxes is a form of hubris that denigrates the religion.


6 posted on 01/30/2006 7:49:14 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Almondjoy

It took all the way to post 4 for the slam.

Let me direct you to a thread by Alouette, SJackson or Salem so that you can share your insight with the Jewish FReepers about how wrong their doctrine is.

See you there. NOT.


7 posted on 01/30/2006 7:49:48 AM PST by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Almondjoy
Seriously, if going Sola Scripture works for you, keep going, otherwise, how Catholics pray is of no concern to you.
8 posted on 01/30/2006 7:50:05 AM PST by Theoden (Fidei Defensor - Deus vult!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: trebb

Dig my tagline.
We've got bigger problems in this world.


9 posted on 01/30/2006 7:50:42 AM PST by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: NYer
So sainthood can be attributed to miracles 'after' one's death? Do people that perform miracles 'during' their life get through the process quicker or get some higher level of sainthood?

Sorry for sounding a bit cynical but this process just seems rather bureaucratic and nonsensical if a miracle is needed, before or after your death.

10 posted on 01/30/2006 7:50:52 AM PST by AgThorn (Bush is my president, but he needs to protect our borders. FIRST, before any talk of "Amnesty.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: trebb
The human man who decides whether or not someone is a saint, has the power of the keys, period. If your not Catholic, I guess it won't "denigrate your religion", so it should not bother you.
11 posted on 01/30/2006 7:52:29 AM PST by Theoden (Fidei Defensor - Deus vult!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Almondjoy
Were not praying to him. We're asking him to pray for us.

If I asked you to pray for me, would you do it??

Well, as Catholics, we believe that a) it's not only the living who can pray for us but also those who've gone before us in faith and b) the prayers of those who themselves led holy lives are particularly powerful in the sight of God.

That's all there is to it, really.

Nothing wrong with that is there?

12 posted on 01/30/2006 7:52:57 AM PST by marshmallow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: netmilsmom
I agree that we have bigger problems, but this is one of the reasons I switched to a nondenominational church that uses the Bible as it's basis for the teachings that go on. Our pastor makes no bones about anything the Bible says and will unashamedly teach it "as is" no matter how many might take offense. Faith in God and the Gospel of the New Testament and it's message of Grace through Jesus' supreme sacrifice of Love are the foundations of Christianity; the elevating of mortals, by other mortals seems to be putting the wrong sort of emphasis out there. I prefer that our spiritual leaders ask for God's blessings rather than thinking they can confer them.

God Bless.

13 posted on 01/30/2006 7:59:10 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: trebb
Men don't decide who is to be a saint. All of the faithful are saints in God's eyes and conferring sainthood on a person based on whether someone in the Catholic Church can X all the right boxes is a form of hubris that denigrates the religion.

We aren't "deciding" who the saints are. There are countless saints who aren't "canonized." The Church is giving recognition to those holy souls whose intercession has proved beneficial to the Church Militant on earth.

14 posted on 01/30/2006 7:59:44 AM PST by Pyro7480 (Sancte Joseph, terror daemonum, ora pro nobis!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: NYer
It was a great privilege to have him as our pope. As President Bush said:

"Laura and I join people across the Earth in mourning the passing of Pope John Paul II. The Catholic Church has lost its shepherd, the world has lost a champion of human freedom, and a good and faithful servant of God has been called home.

Pope John Paul II left the throne of St. Peter in the same way he ascended to it -- as a witness to the dignity of human life. In his native Poland, that witness launched a democratic revolution that swept Eastern Europe and changed the course of history. Throughout the West, John Paul's witness reminded us of our obligation to build a culture of life in which the strong protect the weak. And during the Pope's final years, his witness was made even more powerful by his daily courage in the face of illness and great suffering.

All Popes belong to the world, but Americans had special reason to love the man from Krakow. In his visits to our country, the Pope spoke of our "providential" Constitution, the self-evident truths about human dignity in our Declaration, and the "blessings of liberty" that follow from them. It is these truths, he said, that have led people all over the world to look to America with hope and respect.

Pope John Paul II was, himself, an inspiration to millions of Americans, and to so many more throughout the world. We will always remember the humble, wise and fearless priest who became one of history's great moral leaders. We're grateful to God for sending such a man, a son of Poland, who became the Bishop of Rome, and a hero for the ages."
15 posted on 01/30/2006 7:59:49 AM PST by Nihil Obstat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
I'm catholic and do believe in miracles. However I have had 38 years of experience with Juvenal Parkinson's, and this one is going to be hard to "prove". There are a lot of things that can cause Parkinson's syndrome in a younger person, and usually it's not your classic Parkinson's disease. It can be a side effect to numerous medications and can go away when you stop taking the medication.
16 posted on 01/30/2006 7:59:57 AM PST by babygene (Viable after 87 trimesters)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Theoden
The human man who decides whether or not someone is a saint, has the power of the keys, period. If your not Catholic, I guess it won't "denigrate your religion", so it should not bother you.

It doesn't denigrate my religion (I was brought up Catholic). It assumes too much power and authority for mere mortals who should stick to glorifying God instead of trying to glorify men. Men may be deserving of wholesale love and respect, but not of reverence; reverence belongs to God.

17 posted on 01/30/2006 8:03:37 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Almondjoy
If you are praying to anyone other than God you need to read up on your verses again.

I see the entertainment showed up early on this thread.

18 posted on 01/30/2006 8:06:03 AM PST by Rutles4Ever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: trebb
It assumes too much power and authority for mere mortals

Why?

19 posted on 01/30/2006 8:07:03 AM PST by Rutles4Ever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: trebb
I prefer that our spiritual leaders ask for God's blessings rather than thinking they can confer them.

Sure about that?

Matthew 18:18

"Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven."

20 posted on 01/30/2006 8:09:48 AM PST by Rutles4Ever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: trebb
Men don't decide who is to be a saint.

But, boy, they sure get to decide who's saved and who isn't!

21 posted on 01/30/2006 8:11:13 AM PST by Rutles4Ever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: trebb

I'll take your word for it. But I do have to say that you should make the effort to read about what the Catholic Church actually teaches and why, instead of holding to your particular caricature of the Church.


22 posted on 01/30/2006 8:13:00 AM PST by Pyro7480 (Sancte Joseph, terror daemonum, ora pro nobis!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: trebb

I apologize if I overreact, but there's a lot of people on Free Republic, whose only joy comes from going on the Catholic threads, with the intention to attack, belittle, and start flame wars between various Christian groups. I have never seen you post before, and I grouped you in with them. Now I know not to. The Communion of Saints, at least as I have been taught, are those people who have led exemplary lives, and should serve as examples of how Christians should live, and glorify God. We can ask them to intercede for us directly to God through Christ and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. We do not pray to them, or worship them, and it is understood that the glorification of saints is not theirs, but truly belongs to God. "All glory and honor is yours almighty Father, for ever, and ever"


23 posted on 01/30/2006 8:13:29 AM PST by Theoden (Fidei Defensor - Deus vult!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Rutles4Ever

>> I see the entertainment showed up early on this thread<<

LOL!
High five, spot on!


24 posted on 01/30/2006 8:32:04 AM PST by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Theoden

I guess no more so than murder or abortion is to you.

If you want to pray to false idols I guess your right.. that's your business.


25 posted on 01/30/2006 8:51:13 AM PST by Almondjoy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Rutles4Ever

The entertainment was here already hense why I posted.


26 posted on 01/30/2006 8:52:22 AM PST by Almondjoy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Theoden
Thank you for your kind and insightful reply. I love what the Catholic Church has accomplished and believe that it has brought more souls to God for Eternity than any other religious entity. I admit ignorance to all the intricacies of what is done and exactly why it is done. I tend to go with my gut and the Bible. Sometimes, I find that the interpretations of some specific areas of the Bible differ among religions and I can see where I, not being a theologian, might be a little amiss. Besides, there's nothing wrong in some lively discussion that forces us to examine our beliefs and to fortify the Truth in our lives. Some think I have it in for the Catholic Church, but that isn't the case at all; I enjoy examining my beliefs against the beliefs of others. Even where I disagree, I find that Grace through the Love of God as the Son of Man is not an arguable point among Christians. Here's to spreading God's Word in the hope that those who have not yet decided to give themselves to Him, via the Sacrifice of the Cross, hear what they need to hear in order to ensure their places in Eternity.

God Bless

27 posted on 01/30/2006 8:56:10 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Almondjoy
>>>>>If you want to pray to false idols I guess your right.. that's your business.

Yes, what Catholics do is indeed "our business." Which makes me wonder why you want to put your nose into it.

28 posted on 01/30/2006 9:00:37 AM PST by Thorin ("I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Presumably this nun and others also prayer to Mary, et al on her behalf. How do they know it was the late pope that precipitated this "miracle"?
29 posted on 01/30/2006 9:02:41 AM PST by topcat54
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: trebb
It assumes too much power and authority for mere mortals who should stick to glorifying God instead of trying to glorify men.

This is recognizing the work God has done in glorifying men, not gloryfying them on our own initiative. God glorifies the saints, we can only recognize his act in doing so.

30 posted on 01/30/2006 9:19:52 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: NYer

This reads like the investigator has a vested interest in seeing that John Paul II is canonized. If that's the case then it should be no surprise that the "miracles" needed to confirm him as a saint WILL be found.


31 posted on 01/30/2006 9:35:27 AM PST by ksen ("For an omniscient and omnipotent God, there are no Plan B's" - Frumanchu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow
Were not praying to him. We're asking him to pray for us.

The story explicitly says the nun prayed to John Paul II.

32 posted on 01/30/2006 9:36:31 AM PST by ksen ("For an omniscient and omnipotent God, there are no Plan B's" - Frumanchu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: trebb
"...I switched to a nondenominational church that uses the Bible as it's basis for the teachings that go on."



Did you know that the Catholic Church decided which books would form the New Testament that you use today? You can thank the Catholic Church for the Bible you use today. Are you not relying on the authority of the Church every time you pick up your Bible?


EXCERPT from Rev. Henry Graham's "Where We Got the Bible":
Now we know that the Gospels and Epistles of the New Testament were read aloud to the congregations of Christians that met on the first day of the week for Holy Mass (just as they are still among ourselves), one Gospel here, another there; one Epistle of St Paul in one place, another in another; all scattered about in various parts of the world where there were bodies of Christians. And the next question that naturally occurs to us is, when were these separate works gathered together so as to form a volume and added to the Old Testament to make up what we now call the Bible? Well, they were not collected for the best part of three hundred years. So that here again I am afraid is a hard nut for Protestants to crack, viz. — That though we admit that the separate works composing the New Testament were now in existence, yet they were for centuries not to be found altogether in one volume, were not obtainable by multitudes of Christians, and even were altogether unknown to many in different parts of the world. How then, could they possibly form a guide to Heaven and the chart of salvation for those who had never seen or read or known about them? It is a fact of history that the Council of Carthage, which was held in 397 A.D., mainly through the influence of St Augustine, settled the Canon or Collection of New Testament Scriptures as Catholics have them now and decreed that its decision should be sent on to Rome for confirmation. No Council (that is, no gathering of the Bishops of the Catholic Church for the settlement of some point of doctrine) was ever considered to be authoritative or binding unless it was approved and confirmed by the Roman Pontiff, while the decisions of every General Council that has received the approval of Rome are binding on the consciences of all Catholics. The Council of Carthage, then, is the first known to us in which we find a clear and undisputed catalogue of all the New Testament books as we have them in Bibles now.

http://catholicity.elcore.net/GrahamOnNewTestamentCanon.html
33 posted on 01/30/2006 9:37:48 AM PST by Deo volente
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: ksen
The article also says this:

It (the miracle) must be the result of prayers asking the dead pope to intercede with God. Miracles are usually a physical healing that doctors are at a loss to explain.

Which is exactly what I said in my previous post.

Also, when CNN says "the nun prayed to John Paul II", one needs to keep in mind that theological exactitude may not necessarily be conveyed by their choice of words.

To summarize, the nun's prayers to JPII were asking his intercession (i.e. prayer) before God on her behalf. It's the same as if I asked you to pray for me. I'm asking you to intercede before God on my behalf.

34 posted on 01/30/2006 9:44:51 AM PST by marshmallow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: ksen; marshmallow
The story explicitly says the nun prayed to John Paul II.

The reporter phrased it that way.

As you well know, from all the years of discussion here at FR, catholics do not pray to dead people. They ask those who have exemplified a holy life, to intervene on their behalf. In this particular situation, she asked, and it would seem he placed her request before our Lord.

35 posted on 01/30/2006 9:45:45 AM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: ksen
The story explicitly says the nun prayed to John Paul II.

Well, that's how Reuters puts it.

Mrs VS

36 posted on 01/30/2006 9:48:22 AM PST by VeritatisSplendor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: topcat54
Presumably this nun and others also prayer to Mary, et al on her behalf. How do they know it was the late pope that precipitated this "miracle"?

As I understand it, for a miracle to be credited to a saint (that is, a miracle by God in response to a saint's intercession) the petitioners must testify that they asked for that saint only to intercede, no others. Which apparently means telling your family and friends who might be praying for you - "John Paul only, don't ask the Blessed Mother, don't ask any one else." And I think it means not even asking God directly, but only through the saint's intercession.

I don't think I could limit myself that much; I'd be calling on all the big guns and everyone I loved who I believed was in heaven, and of course directly God, and I'd be asking people on earth to be praying to God, and since a lot of them would be Protestants...

Mrs Vs

37 posted on 01/30/2006 9:55:42 AM PST by VeritatisSplendor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Deo volente
Are you not relying on the authority of the Church every time you pick up your Bible?

Divine inspiration comes in many forms and is not limited to members of the Catholic Church. If a baker becomes divinely inspired and does great deeds that are useful to God, it doesn't necessarily follow that we need to go the bakers for our spiritual guidance.

I am not all about attacking the Catholic Church (follow the rest of my posts prior to this one), but I do like to see people think their way through as they concentrate on their beliefs and argue them. I merely point out that the fact that an argument sounds good, doesn't make it definitive.

God Bless you and those that compiled the New Testament.

38 posted on 01/30/2006 9:59:55 AM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Almondjoy
If you want to pray to false idols I guess your right.. that's your business.

You mean like that book you worship?

39 posted on 01/30/2006 10:01:44 AM PST by Rutles4Ever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow
To summarize, the nun's prayers to JPII were asking his intercession (i.e. prayer) before God on her behalf. It's the same as if I asked you to pray for me. I'm asking you to intercede before God on my behalf.

Just because her prayers were for intercession does not negate the fact that she was praying to JPII, which you seem to agree with in the highlighted text above. Therefore I'm not sure why you chastised that other poster for: 1) quoting the story, and 2) for posting something you ultimately agree with, that the nun prayed to JPII.

40 posted on 01/30/2006 10:10:55 AM PST by ksen ("For an omniscient and omnipotent God, there are no Plan B's" - Frumanchu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: NYer
They ask those who have exemplified a holy life, to intervene on their behalf.

How is that different from "praying" to someone?

The implication in the story is that she prayed to JPII for healing and he healed her, that conclusion I can understand your problem with.

41 posted on 01/30/2006 10:14:07 AM PST by ksen ("For an omniscient and omnipotent God, there are no Plan B's" - Frumanchu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: ksen; marshmallow
How is that different from "praying" to someone?

Would you please pray for me? Thanks, I could use the extra prayers.

42 posted on 01/30/2006 10:20:44 AM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Almondjoy

Praying to doesn't have the same meaning and conotation as you think or as the article interprets.


43 posted on 01/30/2006 10:21:28 AM PST by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Hey! Did you just pray to me?

;^P


44 posted on 01/30/2006 10:23:30 AM PST by ksen ("For an omniscient and omnipotent God, there are no Plan B's" - Frumanchu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: VeritatisSplendor
I don't think I could limit myself that much; I'd be calling on all the big guns and everyone I loved who I believed was in heaven, ..

And since the big guns might be busy listening to somebody else's prayer, you would want to cover as many bases as possible. I'm sure the ex-pope is very busy these days hearing all those prayers being directed his way. I mean, does he have to take them one at a time? Does he put you on call waiting while he deals with the current crisis? Image if just 1% of all the world's Roman Catholics (not to mention some errant protestants or Orthodox) starting praying to the pope at the same time. And how do you know he's not handing the calls off to some long forgotten popes from, say, the 11th or 12th century with extra bandwidth?

It certainly seems preferable to go right to Christ since we know as God He has the bandwidth to deal with all those requests.

45 posted on 01/30/2006 10:25:41 AM PST by topcat54
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: ksen

Ping.


46 posted on 01/30/2006 10:28:10 AM PST by topcat54
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Yes, it also amazes me how these Threads bring out certain individuals.

For those unclear of the concept.............

in·ter·ces·sion   Audio pronunciation of "intercession" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (ntr-sshn)
n.

  1. Entreaty in favor of another, especially a prayer or petition to God in behalf of another.
  2. Mediation in a dispute.


[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin intercessi, intercessin-, intervention, from intercessus, past participle of intercdere, to intervene. See intercede.]
inter·cession·al adj.
inter·cessor (-ssr) n.
inter·cesso·ry adj.
[Download Now or Buy the Book]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

intercession

n 1: a prayer to God on behalf of another person 2: the act of intervening (as to mediate a dispute) [syn: intervention]in·ter·cede   Audio pronunciation of "intercede" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (ntr-sd)
intr.v. in·ter·ced·ed, in·ter·ced·ing, in·ter·cedes

  1. To plead on another's behalf.
  2. To act as mediator in a dispute.


[Latin intercdere, to intervene  : inter-, inter- + cdere, to go; see ked- in Indo-European Roots.]
inter·ceder n.
[Download Now or Buy the Book]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

intercede

v : act between parties with a view to reconciling differences; "He interceded in the family dispute"; "He mediated a settlement" [syn: mediate, intermediate, liaise, arbitrate]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

47 posted on 01/30/2006 10:39:57 AM PST by DoctorMichael (The Fourth-Estate is a Fifth-Column!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ksen
Just because her prayers were for intercession does not negate the fact that she was praying to JPII, which you seem to agree with in the highlighted text above. Therefore I'm not sure why you chastised that other poster for: 1) quoting the story, and 2) for posting something you ultimately agree with, that the nun prayed to JPII.

No, I don't agree with it. There is a critical distinction which can easily be missed. The original poster implied that JPII was the end point of her prayers and I've been trying to point out that this is not the case. I hope I didn't appear to be chastising anyone. Trying to enlighten, would be more accurate.

The poster to whom I addressed my original post implied that she was praying to a man, instead of to God. There's an important theological point here which CNN's unfortunate choice of words confuses, although it clarified the situation later in the article. My response was to point out that we can ask others to intercede before God on our behalf. This not the same thing as praying the psalms or the "Our Father". This does not detract from God nor give false worship to a man as the original poster implied. That's because the end point of all prayer is God.

Other members of the Church (alive or dead) may be asked to intercede for us before God. This is not praying to them, even if CNN says it is. No disprespect to CNN but it's not the Catholic journal of record. As Catholics, we believe that we are all part of the same Church, irrespective of whether we have died in faith and gone to heaven or are still on earth and on the journey. The Church in heaven we call the Church Triumphant. The Church on earth is the Church Militant. Different branches but the same Church. This explains why it is possible to ask (or "pray to" in CNN's lingo) JPII to intercede before God for us.

Another common inaccuracy you may also see associated with this type of article from time to time is that "St. X healed me". Same mistake.

No, St. X didn't heal you. God healed you through the intercession of the saint.

48 posted on 01/30/2006 10:44:35 AM PST by marshmallow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Campion
God glorifies the saints, we can only recognize his act in doing so.

My only question is how do we know God has done so? It might help if God would send down some more stone tablets saying who the real saints are. Pope John Paul along with many others have done many great things but this whole sainthood thing seems ridiculous and unnecessary to me.

49 posted on 01/30/2006 10:57:08 AM PST by pepperhead (Kennedy's float, Mary Jo's don't!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Almondjoy
If you are praying to anyone other than God you need to read up on your verses again.

The problem with this line of thought, as with every Protestant argument, is one of semantics. In this case, the word is: "Pray."

When the Apostles spoke with Jesus on earth, were they praying to Him? No. When we speak with Jesus now, are we praying to Him? Yes. What's the difference? One is communication with a person physically present on earth and the other is communication with a person in heaven. If your definition of prayer is solely "communication with God," you must submit that when the Apostles were talking to Jesus while fishing that they were "praying." This, of course, is nonsense.

For a Catholic, the word "prayer" does not mean "conversing with God." It means communication with those no longer on earth - God included. When we invoke the intercessions of the Saints, we are asking our brothers and sisters who are no longer on this earth and in union with God to pray for us, just as you, as a Protestant, would ask a friend on earth to pray for you. Unless you can think of another way to communicate with a person who is in heaven, Catholics will continue "praying" to our friends in heaven.
50 posted on 01/30/2006 11:02:01 AM PST by mike182d ("Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200201-237 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson