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Pope wishes to lift the excommunications on the followers of Lefebvre (SSPX)
Il Giornale ^ | 2-2-2006 | Andrea Tornielli

Posted on 02/02/2006 8:13:08 AM PST by Claud

Il Papa vuol togliere la scomunica ai seguaci di Lefebvre - di Andrea Tornielli -

Andrea Tornielli

da Roma

La notizia corre online, sui siti Internet tradizionalisti. Qualcosa si muove nelle relazioni tra la Fraternità San Pio X e il Vaticano: presto il Papa potrebbe far cadere la scomunica che ha colpito i vertici del gruppo fondato dal monsignor Lefebvre, che conta quattro vescovi, 480 preti e centinaia di migliaia di fedeli in tutto il mondo. E qualcosa si muove davvero: la mattina di lunedì 13 febbraio, alle 10.30, Benedetto XVI ha convocato nel palazzo apostolico una riunione con i cardinali responsabili dei «ministeri» vaticani, proprio per discutere della possibilità di togliere la scomunica ai vescovi che furono ordinati da monsignor Lefebvre nel 1988 senza il permesso del Vaticano. Ma c'è di più. L'altro punto importante all'ordine del giorno della riunione riguarda infatti tutto il mondo tradizionalista, anche quello in comunione con Roma: si discuterà infatti come rendere più libero l'uso dell'antico messale preconciliare, che la Chiesa ha usato fino all'ultima riforma liturgica. Già oggi, almeno sulla carta, questa possibilità di utilizzo esiste, per volontà di Giovanni Paolo II. In realtà, però, la concessione della Messa antica ai gruppi di tradizionalisti che ne fanno richiesta è a discrezione dei vescovi diocesani, che in molti casi oppongono un netto rifiuto.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: latinmass; lefebvre; sspx
Sorry...very busy and no time to translate this...will try to get to it at lunchtime.

Big news though. :)

1 posted on 02/02/2006 8:13:09 AM PST by Claud
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To: Claud

oh, and the piece above is only a small sliver of the article..in a rush and forgot the ellipses.


2 posted on 02/02/2006 8:14:16 AM PST by Claud
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To: Claud
See this article from Catholic World News; Pope, Curia to Discuss Reconciliation With SSPX
3 posted on 02/02/2006 8:15:46 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: Claud

That's some awesome news! 13 February meeting of the bigwigs to work it out.


4 posted on 02/02/2006 8:24:27 AM PST by markomalley (Vivat Iesus!)
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To: Claud
Pope Benedict will also discuss his own inclination to allow broader use of the pre-conciliar Roman Missal, Il Giornale reports. The SSPX clings exclusively to the old, or Tridentine, rite. Since 1984, the traditional Mass has been allowed in Catholic dioceses only with the permission of the local bishop. Pope Benedict might eliminate the need for priests to obtain that permission, according to Il Giornale. The Italian newspaper said that it had obtained its information from Church officials directly involved in the talks between the Vatican and the SSPX leadership.

The above was from a Catholic World Report article on the Feb. 13 meeting. I agree that the SSPX stuff is big news, but even bigger, IMHO, is the possibility of a universal indult. I think that's going to have a major impact, once the Tridentine rite is no longer seen as the property of certain groups (who definitely deserve credit for fighting to keep it alive, btw) that are, rightly or wrongly, not well received by many Catholics.

5 posted on 02/02/2006 8:41:07 AM PST by livius
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To: Claud
I don't have to translate the whole thing, but here's the part I posted above...quick, rough and dirty, so apologies to any native Italian speakers out there. Tradire = traduire. Anyway...

The news is running online through traditionalist websites. Something' moving in the relationships between the SSPX and the Vatican: soon the Pope may lift the excommunications which has struck the roots of the group founded by Msgr. Lefebvre which includes 4 bishops, 480 priests, and hundreds of thousands of faithful over the whole world.

And something is moving indeed: the morning of Monday Feb. 13, at 10:30, Benedict XVI has convoked in the Apostolic residence a meeting with the cardinals responsible for the Vatican ministries, exactly to discuss the possibility of lifting the excommunication on the bishops which were ordained by Msgr. Lefebvre in 1988 without the permission of the Vatican.

But there's more. The other important point of order of the day of the meeting regards in fact the whole traditionalist world, even that which is in communion with Rome: it will be discussed how to render more free the use of the old preconciliar Missal, which the Church used until the last liturgical reform. Already today, even though [sulla carts???], the possibility of using it exists, by the wishes of John Paul II. In reality, though, the concessions of the ancient Mass to traditionalist groups who request them are at the discretion of diocesan bishops, who in many cases oppose and clearly refuse to.

The SSPX news is IMHO, somewhat overshadowed by the news on the liberalization of the old Missal.

Let us all pray...I'll ask Father if we can do a Te Deum if this all pans out. :)

6 posted on 02/02/2006 9:21:53 AM PST by Claud
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To: Claud

Sounds like good news. God willing...


7 posted on 02/02/2006 9:26:33 AM PST by Antoninus (The only reason you're alive today is because your parents were pro-life.)
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To: marshmallow

Thanks for the other article Marshmallow..this one above seems to be the original report that the CWNews report is based on. I picked it up from AngelQueen.


8 posted on 02/02/2006 9:27:38 AM PST by Claud
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To: Antoninus
Indeed! The SSPX already has a structure on the ground and in place. So right there...you're vastly increasing the number of traditional chapels worldwide.

PLUS, if this goes through, perhaps the SSPX could take over some of those beautiful old churches in cities across the country when bishops leave them to decay and fall apart.

9 posted on 02/02/2006 9:30:01 AM PST by Claud
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To: Claud

Te Deum tonight after the Candlemas Solemn High Mass!


10 posted on 02/02/2006 9:33:28 AM PST by jrny (Oremus pro Pontifice nostro Benedicto Decimo Sexto.)
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To: Claud

"The SSPX news is IMHO, somewhat overshadowed by the news on the liberalization of the old Missal."

I agree. Picture this...Mater Ecclesiae type churches multiplying! Another Te Deum, Claud.


11 posted on 02/02/2006 9:39:06 AM PST by jrny (Oremus pro Pontifice nostro Benedicto Decimo Sexto.)
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To: Claud
PLUS, if this goes through, perhaps the SSPX could take over some of those beautiful old churches in cities across the country when bishops leave them to decay and fall apart.

Nah, it's much better when they're turned into night-clubs. Or "performing arts centers" like poor St. Vibiana's in LA:



I wonder if they'll perform the V-Monologues there?
12 posted on 02/02/2006 9:43:57 AM PST by Antoninus (The only reason you're alive today is because your parents were pro-life.)
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To: Antoninus
Or "performing arts centers" like poor St. Vibiana's in LA:

SICK, SICK, SICK

Memo to next Bishop of L.A. First day on the job: "Demolition on the Mahoney cathedral will begin immediately. We will be restoring St. Vibiana's to its former glory"

13 posted on 02/02/2006 9:46:34 AM PST by Claud
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To: jrny; Antoninus
Te Deum tonight after the Candlemas Solemn High Mass!

May be too early yet, but what the heck LOL

BTW, jrny, we will be there at Candlemas tonight (That goes for you too, Antoninus...I didn't put it together that it was this evening)

14 posted on 02/02/2006 9:49:01 AM PST by Claud
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To: Claud

Have they finished the construction yet at ME? Cause, we're planning to try to get there way before 7:30 to get a seat, since I understand that some visiting clergy will be in attendance.


15 posted on 02/02/2006 9:51:35 AM PST by jrny (Oremus pro Pontifice nostro Benedicto Decimo Sexto.)
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To: jrny
Have they finished the construction yet at ME? Cause, we're planning to try to get there way before 7:30 to get a seat

Yes. The narthex is all finished so there should be folding chairs there--making the church half as big again. I heard, though, that the new area was FULL for Christmas vigil, so despite the new space, it still might prove crowded!

16 posted on 02/02/2006 10:06:41 AM PST by Claud
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To: Claud
[sulla carts???]

Doesn't that mean 'on paper', as in 'even though, on paper, the possibility of using it exists.'

17 posted on 02/02/2006 10:15:13 AM PST by AlbionGirl ("Words are like children, the more attention you lavish on them the more they demand.")
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To: livius
the possibility of a universal indult. I think that's going to have a major impact, once the Tridentine rite is no longer seen as the property of certain groups (who definitely deserve credit for fighting to keep it alive, btw) that are, rightly or wrongly, not well received by many Catholics.

You are very right, but what I am very much afraid of is a further splintering of the C&E, Cafeteria, CINO, Vat II generation, conservative and traditional divisions. The differences are very much there. I just have this fear that the argument over Mass is going to look a lot like the argument over the spelling of Channakuh.

Maybe I'm worrying over nothing, but there's going to be infighting and it's not going to help with evangelization at all.

18 posted on 02/02/2006 10:21:05 AM PST by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
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To: AlbionGirl

That's it...sulla carta = on paper. Thanks, AG! :)


19 posted on 02/02/2006 12:11:26 PM PST by Claud
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To: Claud

'welcome! :)


20 posted on 02/02/2006 1:14:58 PM PST by AlbionGirl
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To: Desdemona

Actually, I think - maybe too optimistically - that a lot of people go along with things as they are simply because they don't know any better or have never seen anything else. Some of them are surprisingly appreciative of a beautiful and correct Mass, regardless of what they put up with uncomplaingly every Sunday. I don't think they'd have trouble readjusting.

That said, there would be an entrenched group - particularly the scads of "ministers," mostly elderly women, who have been installed in American churches - who would be very difficult, but I think that in the long run, they'd respect the authority of the priest or bishop(assuming he bothered to exercise it).

As for the ultra-liberals, they've already left anyway, since they very publicly do not accept most of the teachings of the Church. Maybe it would be a good thing for them to stop sponging off the life, reputation and money of the real Church and go out and see exactly how far their meager and unappealing PC Unitarianism would get them.


21 posted on 02/02/2006 6:31:18 PM PST by livius
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To: Claud; GatorGirl; maryz; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; livius; goldenstategirl; ...

SSPX: B16 Gathers His Chiefs
A friend in Rome just sent me today's article text from Andrea Tornielli in Il Giornale. Below is the translated lede:

The Pope wants to remove the excommunication on the followers of Lefebvre.

Things are moving in relations between the Fraternity of St. Pius X and the Vatican: the Pope wishes soon to bring down the excommunication which was levied on the leaders of the group founded by Archbishop Lefebvre, which comprises four bishops, 480 priests and hundreds of thousands of faithful throughout the world. It's really moving: the morning of Monday, 13 February, at 10.30, Benedict XVI has called a meeting in the Apostolic Palace with the cardinal-heads of the Vatican "ministries" [i.e. the heads of the Congregations and relevant Pontifical Councils], for the purpose of discussing some possibilities of removing the excommunications of the bishops who were ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre in 1988 without
the permission of the Vatican.

Here's the summary of the rest: chief supporter of a deal is said to be Castrillion (no surprise there), while Julian Herranz (cardinal-president of the Council for Legislative Texts and a numerary of Opus Dei) "has long arranged the canonical grounds which foresees the institution of an apostolic administration." Tornielli confirms that the 22 December speech was a watershed for Econe, and that the Pope is "intentioned to render less problematic the old manner of celebrating [liturgy] to the groups of the faithful who request it."

-30-

http://www.whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/


22 posted on 02/03/2006 5:57:09 PM PST by narses (St Thomas says “lex injusta non obligat”)
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To: Claud; Antoninus

If you view the PDF version of the article on the Il Giornale site (the link is above the headline), there is a picture accompanying the article of a Society priest saying his first Solemn Mass in the Ambrosian Rite. Also, there is an article underneath that talks about the American/English release of a book by Ratzinger/Pera and the presentation that will be made at Columbia University in NYC.


23 posted on 02/03/2006 7:40:16 PM PST by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
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To: marshmallow

Do you think it will work?


24 posted on 02/03/2006 7:47:59 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Claud

We do live in interesting times, don't we?


25 posted on 02/03/2006 8:48:33 PM PST by TradicalRC (No longer to the right of the Pope...)
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