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Is Consciousness Quantum?
I AM Spirit ^ | February 14, 2006 | Tim Phares, RScP

Posted on 02/12/2006 9:37:11 PM PST by TBP

"Consciousness is the singular for which there is no plural," wrote the scientist Erwin Schroedinger. Schroedinger, famous for his theoretical disappearing cat, was one of the pioneers of quantum science.

Lately, I've been contemplating the idea, if I understand it correctly (I am emphatically NOT a scientist), that things in a quantum Universe are essentially wavicles -- potentially, at least, in several places at once, achieving locality only when observed. Only when we focus on them do they show up in a specific place called here.

The essential principle is that there is an observer consciousness that is the overriding force in the world, that we all live in that consciousness and that it reveals itself through each of us. It is only when it acts as us that the quantum wave of all things collapses and it settles into an "objective" reality, all other possibilities being discarded in this experience.

Well, isn't God like that? God is everywhere. God is Omnipresent. "There is no spot where God is not," as we often say in New Thought. Yet when we go into treatment and focus on a specific aspect or quality of God, it shows up right here. The nonlocal becomes local, as the scientists say, the only difference being that it is also simultaneously local to everyone else and in different ways.

Ultimately, of course, the observer and the observed are the same thing, but the Universe is set up in such a way as to be able to observe itself. Were it not set up in this way, it could never collapse the wave of potential and nothing would then occur, according to Dr. Amit Goswami, one of the scientists featured in the movie “What the Bleep Do We Know?”. There would be no choices made, thus there would be no resulting actions. The continued unfolding of the blessings of God requires an observation and an observed to interact and get the show on the road.

In his book The Self-Aware Universe: How Consciousness Creates the Material World, Dr. Goswami produces a scientific case for the idea that consciousness drives what manifests in the world. He makes his case by means of quantum physics, but the ideas he discusses comport closely with New Thought.

Goswami defines consciousness as "the ground of being (original, self-contained, and constitutive of all things) that manifests as the subject that chooses, and experiences what it chooses, as it self-reflectively collapses the quantum wave function in the presence of brain-mind awareness."

The idea that consciousness is "original, self-contained, and constitutive of all things" and that it "manifests as the subject that chooses and experiences what it chooses" will be quite familiar to New Thoughters. This is quintessential New Thought philosophy.

Goswami discusses the quantum wave -- the existence of objects in a field of potentiality -- and the experiments that have shown that particles such as photons, even when separated by massive distances, can "communicate" and act in the same way instantly, defying the theorem that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. These particles have been shown to be able to be in more than one place simultaneously, until observed, at which time, a choice having been made, they collapse their quantum wave and concretize into a given state which is perceived.

Does the same thing happen for people? An experiment in which people who had established a mental bond were locked in metal boxes and one was stimulated to test his response showed that the other partner responded in essentially the same way, showing that these quantum properties apply also to macro objects such as people.

This is why that which is known anywhere in consciousness is known everywhere in consciousness. That is why treatment (scientific prayer) said anywhere works right where the person is who is being prayed for.

According to Goswami, Rene Descartes got it slightly wrong when he wrote "Cogito, ergo sum." ("I think, therefore I am.") It should be "opto, ergo sum" ("I choose, therefore I am.")

In New Thought, we say that it is all about choices. We are always at choice, and the choices we make determine what happens in our lives. It's not what we want, but what we choose. Our choices are revealed by our expectations. When our choices don't work for us anymore, in the words of A Course in Miracles, we simply "Choose Once Again." As we make new choices, new circumstances follow. The formless shows up in new forms, the nonlocal takes on new locality.

The process of creation is a quantum event continually unfolding as and through you. Will you choose to direct it and make your life what you desire it to be?


TOPICS: Apologetics; Current Events; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; Prayer; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: consciousness; god; newthought; quantum; quantummechanics; religion

1 posted on 02/12/2006 9:37:13 PM PST by TBP
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To: TBP

No.


2 posted on 02/12/2006 9:43:28 PM PST by quantim (If the Constitution were perfect it wouldn't have included the Senate.)
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To: TBP
Decisions, decisions, decisions. All I ever do is make decisions. Do I go to bed now or shall I finish reading the article? I can finish it tomorrow. So, I decide to go to bed now, hoping my bed and my bedroom is in the same place I left it. I would expect it to be. Or do I command it to be there? Or maybe I should pray that it will be there. Okay, I'll do all four. Expect, command, hope and pray.

Good article. Strange, but good.

3 posted on 02/12/2006 10:38:21 PM PST by Eastbound
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To: TBP
Is Consciousness Quantum?

No, for then Consciousness would be finite, locked within the boundries of a word, Quantum.

4 posted on 02/13/2006 2:30:05 AM PST by IronManBike (Lodestar in the LoneStar)
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To: TBP

Everything is.


5 posted on 02/13/2006 6:57:37 AM PST by onedoug
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To: TBP
"The process of creation is a quantum event . . . "

Input, process, output. The logic. It would seem that the quantum is the output of the process. The process would include a list of variables to choose from, then making the choices one decision at a time, then a sequential mixing or manipulation of those variables (data), which produces a particular output which would exist as discrete forms of solidness in the quantum. Or actually is the quantum -- --the product, the output, the creation.

So consciousness must be the programmer. The intelligence that wants to create a product, or a situation.

(I think too many people are nothing but data, things to be processed and manipulated in someone else's programs -- programs written by a lesser and not so benign intelligence.)

Many ways to apply the logic here, TBP. Making my synapses fire at the quantum level.

As above, so below. The 'above' is the intelligence where the program is written, the 'below' is the quantum universe, the product.

Let me offer this model: Perhaps the firing synapses of the intelligence bump into the membrane surrounding the quantum and cause all those little superstrings in the potential to jump around -- which become data points in a micro-program, the output of which become data points, parameters passed to the macro-program, all working in concert to provide a universe.

Now why the universe was created is another topic. I'll think about that.

6 posted on 02/14/2006 9:44:41 AM PST by Eastbound
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To: Eastbound

The computer model of mind is similar to the pre-computer model of afferent-efferent nerves plus memory. We still don't know how the will can cause an efferent nerve to fire. Or at least I don't know. The radio model rather than the computer model seems to apply to the thesis of this article.


7 posted on 02/14/2006 9:50:05 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: Eastbound
"Now why the universe was created is another topic. I'll think about that."

Lemme re-word that. Now why the universe is continually created (or re-created) is another topic. I'll think about that.

8 posted on 02/14/2006 9:50:52 AM PST by Eastbound
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To: TBP

Quondam Phone.


9 posted on 02/14/2006 10:21:18 AM PST by Flavius Josephus (Enemy Idealogies: Pacifism, Liberalism, and Feminism, Islamic Supremacism)
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To: TBP

Consciousness is analog.


10 posted on 02/14/2006 10:23:27 AM PST by MortMan (Trains stop at train stations. On my desk is a workstation...)
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To: RightWhale
"We still don't know how the will can cause an efferent nerve to fire."

How about, the intensification of desire (a focal point of consciousness existing outside of quantum) causes mini-orgasms (in a manner of speaking) for the production and release of radio signals. Signals which have their origin outside of the quantum, but can penetrate the membrane and excite the potential -- like sperm penetrating the egg.

Concerning the activity of intense desire, it could be in the same realm or comparable to the mechanics of having a wet-dream and experiencing mental orgasm (release) but the physical body was in no way effected, responsive, or involved. (But you reach for a cigarette anyway. Heh.)

I hope I'm understanding your reference to radio here. I'm not familiar with it.

11 posted on 02/14/2006 10:24:47 AM PST by Eastbound
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To: Eastbound
So consciousness must be the programmer. The intelligence that wants to create a product, or a situation.

As the article says, that consciousness that Goswami describes as "the ground of all being" is both teh programmer and the program. It is the observer and the observed.

As above, so below. The 'above' is the intelligence where the program is written, the 'below' is the quantum universe, the product.

As within, so without. This is how a quantum Universse works. The observer and the observed, the programmer and the program, the above and the below, the internal and the external are aspects of the same quantum wave of the All-in-All.

Let me offer this model: Perhaps the firing synapses of the intelligence bump into the membrane surrounding the quantum and cause all those little superstrings in the potential to jump around -- which become data points in a micro-program, the output of which become data points, parameters passed to the macro-program, all working in concert to provide a universe.

And we do the same thing with our patterns of thought, creating our Universe by the neural connections we create in our brains with our thought.

Now why the universe was created is another topic. I'll think about that.

The Universe continues ot be created anew every moment. "Behold, I make all things new again."

12 posted on 02/14/2006 10:36:03 AM PST by TBP
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To: IronManBike
No, for then Consciousness would be finite, locked within the boundries of a word, Quantum.

Quantum is an aspect, a way of operating. It does not necessarily make it finite.

13 posted on 02/14/2006 10:37:41 AM PST by TBP
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To: TBP
"Quantum is an aspect, a way of operating. It does not necessarily make it finite."

As an aspect, a way of operating Quantum is thus defined, placing Conciousness within boundries--as does your opinion :>

14 posted on 02/14/2006 11:39:50 AM PST by IronManBike (Lodestar in the LoneStar)
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To: TBP
"The Universe continues ot be created anew every moment. "Behold, I make all things new again.""

Yes, I corrected myself in # 8.

"As within, so without. . . . "

Well, of course everything has to exist concurrently in the mind of the creator. In, out, above, below, up, down, are relative to your reference point.

But the quantum is maya in the mind of the creator, right? As our dreams are maya. So as our intelligence exists in a state non-connected to our dreams when we are not dreaming, can I say so must the Creator intelligence exist in a state non-connected to the universe in any physical way, but only through inversion, when the dream becomes the dreamer? The transferrence occurs when the quantum gates are stormed, perhaps, as you say, continually. Well, at least in Planck time, for I don't think motion is smooth, but only has the appearance of smoothness because of the after-image effect. Similar to a film strip which creates the illusion of smooth motion, the after-images in the brain blend smoothly with the next incoming static scene (frame).

The blank spots seperating the images on the film could correspond to Planck time, the see-don't see, on-off blink. If so, then things in motion can only be observed because of the blank part separating the images on the film, the visual on-off shutter in our brain which holds the after-image of the previous scene (location), otherwise everything would be a blur.

To apply that analogy, could it be there is no such thing as motion, but only a re-locating of static three dimensional objects (discrete blocks of energy in motion at the micro level) -- disappearing and re-appearing continually in different three directional time/space coordinates in Planck time along a plane (direction) concordant to our expectations and will?

Yeah, I know I'm stretching, but just trying to draw models. I'm not sure I understand what I'm saying here. Things start getting fuzzy at the 'ring-pass-not.' 0:)

15 posted on 02/14/2006 12:10:53 PM PST by Eastbound
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To: Eastbound

The radio model is less well-known than the computer model that assails us on all sides like car ads, but the computer is older than the radio so maybe the radio model will catch up eventually. The question, which has a lot of presupposition built in, is: where or what is the mind? and how does it interact with the body? If the mind is an electric field, could not a mass of hydrogen gas have a mind? and what is the difference between the electric mindfield in the vicinity of the brain and the electric field around a radio transmitter? That's more than one question, bujt maybe somewhere in there is a filetab where the subject can be opened up properly.


16 posted on 02/14/2006 12:54:11 PM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: TBP

What the heck is a RScP?


17 posted on 02/14/2006 12:55:33 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: TBP
Lately, I've been contemplating the idea, if I understand it correctly (I am emphatically NOT a scientist), that things in a quantum Universe are essentially wavicles.

Nossir.

All things in the univers are essentially popsicles.

18 posted on 02/14/2006 12:56:23 PM PST by Lazamataz (Islam is a fatal disease that must be eradicated from the body Earth.)
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To: Eastbound
The blank spots seperating the images

Some say the entire world is recreated thirty times a second. Maybe thirty is a low number. In any case the image our mind has of the world may be recreated thirty times a second whether or not the mind creates the world or merely perceives it.

19 posted on 02/14/2006 1:00:19 PM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: Flavius Josephus
"Quondam Phone."

rings mainly on the plain in Spain where I built my quonset home.

20 posted on 02/14/2006 1:41:37 PM PST by Eastbound
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To: RightWhale
"Some say the entire world is recreated thirty times a second."

Passing thought:

Doesn't that imply that the nodal rate of all matter must be uniform across all space/time in order for the system to work? Otherwise people on earth could be viewing Mars while the Martians could be viewing a dark spot where earth is supposed to be at the same universal moment.

The point being, that if the entire universe blinks out at the same universal moment and re-assembles the next moment, what's to prevent someone from projecting themselves across the landscape during the blinktime and re-appearing elsewhere in the universe as simple as stepping off a curb? Like stepping through the Moebius.

If there were no time/space on the other side, there would be no physics to prevent that. But consciousness, desire and will would have to be there. And for any practical purpose, wouldn't that also appear to be bi-location if a person just kept blinking back and forth at such an incredible speed?

But then again, speed would have nothing to do with it, if they were concurrently living in their townhouse on Tau Ceti, in the County of Cetus,the Whale. Right, RightWhale?

21 posted on 02/14/2006 3:53:55 PM PST by Eastbound
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To: Eastbound

Two interpretations: One, the entire universe is recreated every instant, commonly believed, two, that our perception of the world is rebuilt 30 times a second, each consciousness running at its own rate and phase angle, independent of others, also commonly believed.


22 posted on 02/14/2006 5:03:09 PM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: Right Wing Professor
What the heck is a RScP?

From a Google search:

The Energetic Matrix Church of Consciousness (EMC2)

Jennifer Hadley is a fully licensed Spiritual Therapist. A Religious Science Practitioner at the Agape International Spiritual Center

Here's a bunch of 'em

From Frequently Asked Questions About Practitioners and Spiritual Counseling

What is a Religious Science Practitioner?

Trained in the art and skill of Affirmative Prayer
(Spiritual Mind Treatment)

Helps people meet challenges and grow in spiritual understanding

Committed to living, demonstrating and practicing Spiritual Truth

Applies the principles of Science of Mind in his or her own daily life

How is a Practitioner Licensed?

Completed four years of courses, a written exam and oral boards

Professionally licensed by the United Church of Religious Science

23 posted on 02/14/2006 5:30:13 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: Right Wing Professor
What the heck is a RScP?

It stands for "Religious Science Practitioner." The title is mentioned in an earlier article by the same writer at http://www.iam-spirit.com/0502_practice.html

24 posted on 02/15/2006 6:40:32 AM PST by TBP
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To: Right Wing Professor
What the heck is a RScP?

It stands for "Religious Science Practitioner." The title is mentioned in an earlier article by the same writer at http://www.iam-spirit.com/0502_practice.html.

25 posted on 02/15/2006 6:40:54 AM PST by TBP
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To: TBP

Have you seen a movie called, "What The Bleep Do We Know?"
It's an interesting little movie on the subject available at Blockbuster or on the net.


26 posted on 02/17/2006 12:07:37 PM PST by 101st-Eagle (Hunt with VP Cheney=hurt. Drive w/ Kennedy=DEAD! DEAD! DEAD! DEAD! DEAD!)
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To: 101st-Eagle

I saw "What the Bleep" twice in the theatre and own the DVD. Very interesting movie.

Dr. Goswami is quoted in the article and it refers to the fact that he was one of the scientists in "What the Bleep."

BTW, if oyu haven't read Goswami's "The Self-Aware Universe: How Consciousness Creates the Material World" you might find it very interesting.


27 posted on 02/17/2006 1:10:01 PM PST by TBP
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To: TBP

Oops-just skimmed article. I went to some Course in Miracles classes at the local Unity church-very bright people.


28 posted on 02/17/2006 1:19:30 PM PST by 101st-Eagle (Hunt with VP Cheney=hurt. Drive w/ Kennedy=DEAD! DEAD! DEAD! DEAD! DEAD!)
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To: TBP
The essential principle is that there is an observer consciousness that is the overriding force in the world, that we all live in that consciousness and that it reveals itself through each of us. It is only when it acts as us that the quantum wave of all things collapses and it settles into an "objective" reality, all other possibilities being discarded in this experience.

God draws a distinct difference between himself and the created universe:

Rom 1:25 For they changed the truth of God into a lie, and they worshiped and served the created thing more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

29 posted on 02/17/2006 1:31:29 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: 101st-Eagle

My wife and I used a qutoe from the Course on our wedding invitations (changed from singular to plural): "Love, which created us, is what we are." That was very popular.

I hvae a saying from the Course in my living room, calligraphed:

I am here only to be truly helpful.
I am here to represent Him who sent me.
I do not have to worry aobut what to say or what to do
Because He who sent me will direct me.
I am content to be wherever He wishes,
Knowing He goes there with me.
I will be healed
As I let Him teach me to heal.


30 posted on 02/17/2006 1:42:34 PM PST by TBP
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To: 101st-Eagle

Hey, 101st, my mother-in-law is in Unity. Where was yours?


31 posted on 02/17/2006 1:44:18 PM PST by TBP
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To: TBP

I started in Tampa. Then I moved across the bay and went to some in a town called Port Richey.


32 posted on 02/17/2006 1:55:14 PM PST by 101st-Eagle
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To: Virginia-American
Here's a bunch of 'em

A listing from around the country

The Celebration Center

33 posted on 02/17/2006 2:04:25 PM PST by TBP
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To: TBP; Eastbound

I'm a layman, but still when I find an article such as this describing the wonderment-and really the fight over the nature of reality-among Nobel laureate physicists, I am puzzled over the dogma of some on this forum to constantly mock anything metaphysical. This, to me, seems to precipitate an absolute need for an open mind when dealing with any science.

They are usually found on the evolution threads.

34 posted on 02/17/2006 2:17:02 PM PST by 101st-Eagle (Dogmatists: http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/28/healthscience/sneinstein.php)
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To: 101st-Eagle

OOPS dogma to mock=dogma some use to mock


35 posted on 02/17/2006 2:18:19 PM PST by 101st-Eagle (Dogmatists: http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/28/healthscience/sneinstein.php)
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To: 101st-Eagle

Thanks for this link. It looks interesting.


36 posted on 02/17/2006 2:41:48 PM PST by TBP
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To: 101st-Eagle; TBP; RightWhale; DouglasKC; Virginia-American; IronManBike
Sometimes I have the fleeting thought that there are some things that we don't want to know, lest we become aware that our consciousness is but the mirror-image of who we really are, becoming discontent in out 'creature-ness' -- no longer responsive to the joy of immersing ourselves in the river of time and discovering anew what we've created.

Maybe we constructed the veil, the 'ring-pass-not' for good reason.

I'm going to make myself a nice cup of hot chocolate and some raisin toast.

37 posted on 02/17/2006 3:02:46 PM PST by Eastbound
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To: TBP

Glad you like it. Tomorrow I'll post the link to an older issue. You might enjoy some of the articles there too.


38 posted on 02/17/2006 10:17:29 PM PST by TBP
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To: 101st-Eagle

I know some folks in the Clearwater Unity through INTA.


39 posted on 02/20/2006 10:13:13 PM PST by TBP
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To: TBP
I know some folks in the Clearwater Unity through INTA. Cool. Hope it's not asking too much, but maybe you could hook me up with an intro as the median age of the folks here in Port Richey is just way over mine and I don't go too much. Clearwater is a younger, more diverse crowd.
40 posted on 02/21/2006 10:04:58 AM PST by 101st-Eagle (God http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/28/healthscience/sneinstein.php)
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To: 101st-Eagle

I will admit that I don't know them all that well, but I got to know some of them at the 2004 Congress. I believe that Leddy Hammock, the minister there, is a VP of INTA.

You can find her email here: http://www.newthoughtalliance.com/pages/5intabdstaff.htm

I have the following (I won't put the phone and email on this board, but the address above will give them to you.)

Rev. Leddy Hammock
Unity Church of Clearwater
2465 Nursery Rd.
Clearwater, FL 33764

Also, Unity has a database at www.unity.org that will gie you information (address, phone number, service times) on all the churches in the country. (Religious Scinece does the same thing on its websites.)


41 posted on 02/21/2006 10:38:59 AM PST by TBP
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To: TBP

So it took me a couple more days than I thought:

http://www.iam-spirit.com/0502_practice.html

http://www.iam-spirit.com/0502_joelosteen.html


42 posted on 02/21/2006 11:06:09 AM PST by TBP
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To: TBP; 101st-Eagle

If you go there, say hi to Sue Kroupa, the music director. I was in the choir she put together for the 2004 INTA Congress.


43 posted on 02/21/2006 1:43:09 PM PST by TBP
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To: 101st-Eagle
Have you seen a movie called, "What The Bleep Do We Know?"

I own a copy of the "What the Bleep" DVD. Have you seen "What the Bleep: Down the Rabbit Hole"? It goes into even more detail about the ideas that "What the Bleep" discusses.

44 posted on 09/13/2007 8:51:05 PM PDT by TBP
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To: TBP

Quantum theory supports spirituality and religion very well.


45 posted on 11/12/2014 2:41:21 PM PST by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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