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New San Francisco Archbishop Thinks Gay Propaganda Film "Brokeback Mountain" is "Very Powerful"
LifeSiteNews ^ | 2/13/06 | John-Henry Westen

Posted on 02/13/2006 4:28:30 PM PST by wagglebee

SAN FRANCISCO, February 13, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Questions have swirled about Pope Benedict XVI's appointment of former Utah Bishop George Niederauer to be Archbishop of San Francisco, a post Archbishop Niederauer took up this week.  With its reputation for being a hotbed of the "gay subculture" many were looking at how the new archbishop would address the matter.

From recent indications, some Catholics are now especially concerned about the archbishop.

The San Francisco Chronicle has posted an interview with the incoming archbishop, conducted by the paper's 'gay and lesbian issues' newsman Wyatt Buchanan.  During the interview, Archbishop Niederauer makes a disturbing statement which could easily infer that while pedophilia is abnormal, homosexuality is certainly not. 

In the interview Wyatt questions Niederauer about a statement noting that homosexuality cannot be seen as the cause of the sexual abuse scandal.  Niederarer responds, "People who see the sex abuse scandal as having as 'the' cause the sexual orientation of the priests, I felt they are mistaken. Because when we're talking about pedophilia we're talking about a sickness, an illness, an aberration."

In response, Catholic World News' famed blogger Diogenes points out that the Catholic Church considers homosexuality itself as abnormal (http://www.cwnews.com/offtherecord/offtherecord.cfm?task=sin... ).  According to the Catechism, the Church teaches, "Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that 'homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.' They are contrary to the natural law." It adds that even the inclination itself is "objectively disordered." (see the reference http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm )

The interview also reveals a strange interpretation of what the Vatican meant when it barred from ordination to the priesthood men with "deep seated homosexual tendencies". 

While most have interpreted the Vatican statement literally to mean that those who have lasting and non-fleeting homosexual tendencies cannot enter seminary, the archbishop interprets it very differently. According to the new archbishop's understanding "someone who is going to be a priest has to be able and willing, and this has to be tested by time of course, has to be able and willing to subordinate all relationships and conduct all relationships with others in a way that's compatible with a celibate lifestyle . . . And I think that would be true also for the heterosexual candidate."  The interviewer then asks the obvious question, "Then why single out homosexuals?"  That's because, says the archbishop, the issue is much more front and center "since Stonewall."

Beyond that, Niederauer had this to say when asked what he thought of the film Brokeback Mountain.  While the film has been condemned by pro-family groups as a dangerous homosexual propaganda film, Niederauer admitted to seeing the film and remarked on it saying it was "very powerful".  He added that "one of the lessons (of the film) is the destructiveness of not being honest with yourself and not honest with other people and not being faithful, trying to live a double life."

The interview is available for download here:
http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver.asp?cxInstID=45740...

See LifeSiteNews.com coverage of Brokeback Mountain
USCCB Changes Rating on Brokeback Mountain to Morally Offensive
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/dec/05121607.html



TOPICS: Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: brokebackbishop; brokebackmountain; catholiclist; georgeniederauer; homosexualagenda; homosexuals; moralabsolutes; sanfrancisco; sanfranciscobishop; sf
Benedict needs to remove him immediately!
1 posted on 02/13/2006 4:28:34 PM PST by wagglebee
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To: NYer; Salvation; narses; Coleus

Ping.


2 posted on 02/13/2006 4:29:26 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: Sopater; AFA-Michigan; AggieCPA; Agitate; Alexander Rubin; AliVeritas; AllTheRage; ...
MORAL ABSOLUTES and HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA PING.

DISCUSSION ABOUT:

New San Francisco Archbishop Thinks Gay Propaganda Film "Brokeback Mountain" is "Very Powerful"

The Vatican needs to put a stop to this immediately!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To be included in or removed from the MORAL ABSOLUTES PINGLIST, please FreepMail either MillerCreek or wagglebee. To be included in or removed from the HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA PINGLIST, please FreepMail either DBeers or DirtyHarryY2K.


3 posted on 02/13/2006 4:30:47 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee
I remember hearing that the U of San Francisco was a hub of "gay Catholics" including priests.

Really a shame that this guy is Archbishop. Many of the folks in the pews of his archdiocese are socially conservative Filipinos, Vietnamese, or other Asian groups (to say nothing of the Latins) that are diametrically opposed to the Yuppie mindset shared by the Archbishop.

4 posted on 02/13/2006 4:32:01 PM PST by Clemenza (I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked...)
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To: Clemenza

What I find most surprising is that Niederauer was formerly in Utah, which is extremely conservative. It would seem that he was just "going through the motions" while he served there.


5 posted on 02/13/2006 4:34:06 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee

OK, this is disgusting. How did he get in such an exalted position?


6 posted on 02/13/2006 4:41:34 PM PST by Rocky (Air America: Robbing the poor to feed the Left)
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To: wagglebee
I wish POPE JOHN PAUL II was still alive.

I cant speak for the Catholic Church. I have been there a few times when friends invited me.

I am sure there are gay people in all walks of life. But this traction they are getting 'out of the closet' should be alarming to anyone with common sense.

Thanks for the work wagglebee.

Wolf
7 posted on 02/13/2006 4:42:51 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: wagglebee
He added that "one of the lessons (of the film) is the destructiveness of not being honest with yourself and not honest with other people and not being faithful, trying to live a double life."

Scott Peterson comes to mind as someone who wasn't honest. I hope there aren't any wife-killings at the end of the "love story."

8 posted on 02/13/2006 4:44:12 PM PST by syriacus (--------- Jimmy Carter is the world's only self-canonized saint. ----------)
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To: Diogenes

You?


9 posted on 02/13/2006 4:47:51 PM PST by apackof2 (You can stand me up at the gates of hell, I'll stand my ground and I won't back down)
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To: RunningWolf

It seems to me that most faggots just want to get a "nut"...and most faggots are lazy...so why not "couple" with easy prey. Lezzie are the same....touchy-feely.... Same story differnet sex. Gee...what a story!!!


10 posted on 02/13/2006 4:51:40 PM PST by RVN Airplane Driver (Most Americans are so spoiled with freedom they have no idea what it takes to earn and keep it.)
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To: wagglebee

I'm getting worried about this guy. A bishop should be willing to stand up for the Catechism's teaching on homosexuality.


11 posted on 02/13/2006 4:55:03 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: wagglebee; Rocky; cgk; NYer
Hold on there folks.

Beyond that, Niederauer had this to say when asked what he thought of the film Brokeback Mountain. While the film has been condemned by pro-family groups as a dangerous homosexual propaganda film, Niederauer admitted to seeing the film and remarked on it saying it was "very powerful". He added that "one of the lessons (of the film) is the destructiveness of not being honest with yourself and not honest with other people and not being faithful, trying to live a double life."

Perhaps that's what the Archbishop meant? That the 'very powerful' part of the movie he spoke of was how it shows what homosexuality can do to a family and how painful it is?

I'm just giving this man the benefit of the doubt here. It can be very easy to misinterpret words. I doubt he would've added the text in bold if he thought of Brokeback Mountain in the same way as the rest of Hollywood does.

12 posted on 02/13/2006 4:57:39 PM PST by Ultra Sonic 007 (Hitler and Stalin have nothing on Abortion)
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To: Ultra Sonic 007

Go back and read it again.


13 posted on 02/13/2006 5:29:00 PM PST by ClaireSolt (.)
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To: wagglebee

Very, very disturbing. Obviously this bishop is in the wrong career. Every comment that is quoted in the article is wrong, wrong, wrong.

***Niederarer responds, "People who see the sex abuse scandal as having as 'the' cause the sexual orientation of the priests, I felt they are mistaken. Because when we're talking about pedophilia we're talking about a sickness, an illness, an aberration."

A. The vast majority of kids molested were not pre-pubescent children, therefore it was NOT pedophilia. It was (sp?) ebephilia, homosexual attraction to adolescent youths, which is common among homosexuals throughout history.

B. So pedophilia is an aberration and homosexuality isn't?

And he mentions "Stonewall" so casually. I hope Catholics communicate strongly with the Pope to rectify this.


14 posted on 02/13/2006 5:32:43 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: presidio9; NYer; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; ...
just what San Francisco needs (Chronicle sends "gay affairs" reporter to interview Archbishop-elect)

15 posted on 02/13/2006 5:36:50 PM PST by Coleus (IMHO, The IVF procedure is immoral & kills many embryos/children and should be outlawed)
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To: Coleus

San Francisco needs an apostate Archbishop???????


16 posted on 02/13/2006 5:41:05 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: ClaireSolt

Ah. Never mind.


17 posted on 02/13/2006 5:50:12 PM PST by Ultra Sonic 007 (Hitler and Stalin have nothing on Abortion)
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To: jwalsh07
San Francisco needs an apostate Archbishop??????? >>

It's the only way to have people keep coming to church. If you had a bishop who would speak the truth, the churches would be empty. It's like that all over.
18 posted on 02/13/2006 5:55:14 PM PST by Coleus (IMHO, The IVF procedure is immoral & kills many embryos/children and should be outlawed)
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To: RunningWolf

JPII put all these lousy people into place intially, he never ever confronted homosexuality, and he had essentially written off the Church in the US.

In a few brief months, BXVI has already done a better job. But I think the appointment of Levada (a mistake but not a fatal one, since the new definition of Levada's position makes him just a pencil pusher) and the new SF bishop (a serious mistake, recommended by Levada) are going to present major credibility problems for him.


19 posted on 02/13/2006 6:00:12 PM PST by livius
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To: Coleus

We have a bishop here who speaks the truth and our churches are now packed. We had one in the past who was not a raving heretic and, I will say in his favor, was obviously on the ball enough so that we had no gay or other scandals in my diocese; but he kept a very low profile and only intervened if the complaints rose to his eyebrows.

Our bishop for the last few years is a short-timer who was already close to 70 when he was appointed, but he has done a fantastic job in about four years and people turn out in droves for him.

Don't give up. People came out in mobs to see Jesus because he spoke with authority (that is, he spoke the truth), and they come out now to see a bishop who speaks the truth. The problem is that so few bishops do.


20 posted on 02/13/2006 6:05:07 PM PST by livius
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To: RVN Airplane Driver
I'll forgo that to another thread sometime.

Hey tell me about the airplanes you drive.

I have some hours here and there over the years /less than a hundred?/ (fixed and rotor, turbine) and enough sit-awareness cool under pressure, etc that I might be able to get myself down in things I haven't flown.

Take Care,

Wolf
21 posted on 02/13/2006 6:11:56 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: wagglebee; GatorGirl; maryz; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; livius; ...

+


22 posted on 02/13/2006 6:53:35 PM PST by narses (St Thomas says “lex injusta non obligat”)
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http://www.cwnews.com/offtherecord/offtherecord.cfm?task=singledisplay&recnum=3423

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

http://www.streamload.com/Deliver/Deliver.asp?cxInstID=45740628&nodeID=1012804193&action=2&isDelivery=true&forceSaveAs=true&returnPage=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Estreamload%2Ecom%2FNodes%2FNode%2Easp%3FcxInstID%3D45740628%26nodeID%3D955567202


23 posted on 02/13/2006 7:19:32 PM PST by Coleus (IMHO, The IVF procedure is immoral & kills many embryos/children and should be outlawed)
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To: wagglebee

Thounds thwell.


24 posted on 02/13/2006 8:17:26 PM PST by TradicalRC (No longer to the right of the Pope...)
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To: RunningWolf
I wish POPE JOHN PAUL II was still alive.

Why? What leads you to believe he would have suddenly done something about this issue?

25 posted on 02/13/2006 8:44:01 PM PST by presidio9 ("Bird Flu" is the new Y2K Virus -Only without the inconvenient deadline.)
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To: presidio9
I do not know what he could do, but his position was known by his words.

FOXNews.com - US & World News - Obituary: Pope John Paul II.. He was vehemently opposed to homosexual sex, pre- and extra-marital sex

Wolf
26 posted on 02/13/2006 8:54:54 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: wagglebee

Notes as I listen to his interview:

1. His enforcement of the no-poofters rule in seminaries seems likely to be weak. He doesn't clearly define that even chaste homomsexuals do not belong in the priesthood, although he raises some interesting points about sexual maturity.

2. He did not accept that homosexuality was THE cause of the pedophilia, but he emphasized "the" in a way as if to suggest that he noted that most of the pedophiles were gay and that it might be a major factor. He emphasized he was not an expert at such issues.

3. Asked why a gay or lesbian would want to enter the Catholic church, he replied that the Catholic church mercifully helps people along the journey to perfection.

4. Favorite author outside scripture: Anne Padgett (sp?) Very highly thinks of "The Habit of Being" by Flannery O'Connor (sp?).

5. Liked Munich, Capote, thought Syriana was too long but well-done... Noted that he hadn't seen Narnia, but in a way which infers he would like to see it.

6. His reference to Brokeback Mountain being "very powerful" is not in any way praise. Notes the movie shows the evil of living a double life, being dishonest and being unfaithful.

7. Considers the call to celibacy outside of heterosexual marriage "a very high bar" to set, but must be adhered to. Says we (catholics) must respect them, but they must respect Catholic values and recognize that Catholics help everyone.

All in all, he was presenting a friendly (soft?) face to a difficult audience, but nothing he said betrays any open or secretly held heretical views. Rather disappointing on seminary reform, but all in all, there is certainly no basis for removal.


27 posted on 02/13/2006 9:40:06 PM PST by dangus
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To: wagglebee

Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.


28 posted on 02/13/2006 9:44:58 PM PST by DoNotDivide (Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.)
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To: wagglebee

I thought it was three strikes and you're out. That was about five.


29 posted on 02/14/2006 5:04:08 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...
Catholic Ping - Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


30 posted on 02/14/2006 6:49:06 AM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: wagglebee
He added that "one of the lessons (of the film) is the destructiveness of not being honest with yourself and not honest with other people and not being faithful, trying to live a double life."

GAG!

31 posted on 02/14/2006 7:00:58 AM PST by bourbon (everything inside screams for second life)
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To: wagglebee
Beyond that, Niederauer had this to say when asked what he thought of the film Brokeback Mountain. While the film has been condemned by pro-family groups as a dangerous homosexual propaganda film, Niederauer admitted to seeing the film and remarked on it saying it was "very powerful". He added that "one of the lessons (of the film) is the destructiveness of not being honest with yourself and not honest with other people and not being faithful, trying to live a double life."

**************

It is my impression that the Archbishop is trying to walk a very fine line here. He will undoubtedly find however, that he cannot please two masters.

32 posted on 02/14/2006 7:08:50 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: livius
In a few brief months, BXVI has already done a better job. But I think the appointment of Levada (a mistake but not a fatal one, since the new definition of Levada's position makes him just a pencil pusher) and the new SF bishop (a serious mistake, recommended by Levada) are going to present major credibility problems for him.

Indeed. It appears that both of these guys are turkeys. There must be a strategy here. God only knows what it is.
33 posted on 02/14/2006 7:09:02 AM PST by Antoninus (The only reason you're alive today is because your parents were pro-life.)
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To: wagglebee

"Because when we're talking about pedophilia we're talking about a sickness, an illness, an aberration."


If the scandal had been primarily about pedophilia, he might almost have a point.

It was not. It was about chicken-hawking.

The scandal was/is about homosexual men in the priesthood.


34 posted on 02/14/2006 7:16:34 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: wagglebee
The only surprise here is that anyone is surprised.

Abp. Niederauer had some notable classmates at St. John's in Camarillo: Abp. Levada and Cdl. Mahony.

San Francisco needed someone like Fr. Fessio. Yes, it would shrink the Church in that area in the short term, but it would strengthen her in the long run.

35 posted on 02/14/2006 7:21:35 AM PST by B Knotts
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To: NYer
I have faith that the Holy Spirit is hard at work for our present Pope. If errors persist with American Catholic Clergy, then such leadership will be promoted up and out.

Recall the readings a few days back (Feb 9th, 2006):

For Moses said,
Honor your father and your mother,
and Whoever curses father or mother shall die.
Yet you say,
‘If someone says to father or mother,
“Any support you might have had from me is qorban”’
(meaning, dedicated to God),
you allow him to do nothing more for his father or mother.
You nullify the word of God
in favor of your tradition that you have handed on.
And you do many such things.”

In as much a parent may be abusive, we are still called to forgive, as we are adopted children of the Heavenly Father. This must be done to win acceptance of Jesus' Mercy. This forgiving Love is the only Reality to which we may cling beyond mortal death.

Concidering Matt 5: 43-48, if forgiveness for our parents is demanded by Jesus, then how much more is it demanded of other leaders (especially spiritual leaders) not of our own flesh and blood? Where's the challenge in only giving forgiveness to our own family members? Jesus splits the Natural family against each other (Matt 10: 34-36) that He may teach us to heal the unnatural division Satan sows among the entire Human Family. And, the welding of such ripped fabric in the Mystical Body of Christ is a mend much stronger than the untorn fabric around it. The Grace of Reconciliation and the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist makes it so (sew).

It is right to reject, and at times discpipline, the folly of a dying generation. But, euthanasia is still murder and intrinsically evil. How would we want God to correct us and all of our own personal offenses against Him? To separate the poisoning influence of a dead generation from newborns will be punishment enough for grandparents who misspent their industrious years proving themselves wrong.
36 posted on 02/14/2006 8:11:19 AM PST by SaltyJoe (A mother's sorrowful heart and personal sacrifice redeems her lost child's soul.)
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To: wagglebee

"one of the lessons (of the film) is the destructiveness of not being honest with yourself and not honest with other people and not being faithful, trying to live a double life."




A very disturbing quote. The archbishop seems to imply that the only problem was the adultery, "not being faithful" (to their wives), and leading a "double life".
In other words, he seems to imply that everything would be fine if the men had been unmarried. Then they could have been "honest with other people" and not have had to "lead a double life".

By the way, this nonsense about "being honest with yourself" is modernist psychobabble which is used to affirm homosexuals in their disorder. One of the steps in the seminary admission process is to get the candidate to "be honest with himself" about his "sexuality". If the candidate is a homosexual, it's usually no problem as long as he is "honest with himself" about it. Men who are normal heterosexuals have a lot more hoops to jump through to get in.
And if they're conservative to boot, heaven help them!


37 posted on 02/14/2006 9:03:19 AM PST by Deo volente
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To: Antoninus

I agree. I keep puzzling over it, looking for that hidden strategy, but if there is one, it's sure pretty well concealed!


38 posted on 02/14/2006 9:08:14 AM PST by livius
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To: B Knotts
San Francisco needed someone like Fr. Fessio. Yes, it would shrink the Church in that area in the short term, but it would strengthen her in the long run.

I couldn't agree more. God only knows what's really going on.
39 posted on 02/14/2006 9:57:53 AM PST by Antoninus (The only reason you're alive today is because your parents were pro-life.)
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To: wagglebee

"What I find most surprising is that Niederauer was formerly in Utah, which is extremely conservative."

Utah might be conservative, but the Mass as offered in some Salt Lake City parishes is anything but.
Illicit liturgy is often a sign of weak doctrine.
Nothing this bishop might say would surprise me.


40 posted on 02/14/2006 6:10:18 PM PST by rogator
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To: rogator

I just assumed that Catholics in Utah would be quite conservative, obviously I was incorrect.


41 posted on 02/14/2006 6:12:30 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee
Powerful... honestly. Do the traitors ever stop? Do they ever recognize that comfort is not excuse for laziness? Do they always have to betray? If their flock is a stray, do they have to acknowledge their behavior as understandable?

Loser dog.
42 posted on 02/14/2006 6:14:33 PM PST by Porterville (They took our jobs!!! Der dook er jibs!!! Deer took er jabs!!!)
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To: Coleus
It's the only way to have people keep coming to church. If you had a bishop who would speak the truth, the churches would be empty. It's like that all over.

Sorry mate but I totally disagree. Start teahing the truth and people will flock to the church in droves. Yeah the current crop of stand for nothings will leave and be replaced by those who are offended by the lack of truth coming out of many pulpits. Also the truth will atract many newcomers whose souls are eager for an anchor in these times.

God Bless

Mel

43 posted on 02/16/2006 1:34:52 AM PST by melsec
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To: Ultra Sonic 007

"Brokeback Mountain" has some truthful messages in it--even though the film certainly is pro-gay propaganda. One of the truths in the story is the role of the fathers of Jack and Ennis in causing the two men to grow up emotionally starved. The two cowboys need each other so desperately because their fathers were completely inadequate. Another truthful element of the story is the disaster brought about by dishonesty.


44 posted on 02/16/2006 8:35:40 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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