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Is There Life After Death? An Emminent International Cardiologist Believes He Can PROVE IT!
Click Press ^ | 2-20-06

Posted on 02/21/2006 1:05:58 PM PST by bildabare

A leading cardiologist — who has become convinced of the existence of life after death after hearing his patients’ experiences — is talking about his research and beliefs at a major conference in London in March.

Dr Pim van Lommel was so inspired by the stories related by his patients of their Near Death Experiences (NDEs) that he became the first medical practitioner to risk his reputation with a full, systematic trial into the phenomenon.

He interviewed 344 heart patients at his hospital in Arnhem, Netherlands who had all clinically died, some

(Excerpt) Read more at clickpress.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: afterlife; brain; death; life; lifeafterdeath; ndes
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"Instead, the brain may merely be a transmitter and receiver for information, a conclusion that was reached independently by computer scientist Simon Berkovich and brain researcher Herms Romijn. "

---yes. I certainly believe that. I think our brains are like antennae- tuned to your personal spiritual "frequency" if you will. Fascinating stuff.

Butr life after death? Who knows. When you "die" on the operating table, you're not actually dead- in that your cells haven't started to break down. Now Lazurus- from the Bible- HE was actually dead. 4 days in the desert. Wow, that was life after death. I bet he had some stories to tell.

1 posted on 02/21/2006 1:06:01 PM PST by bildabare
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To: bildabare
Out of coursity - is there any documentation for someone who was clinically dead and saw allah in paradise with 72 virgins waiting...?
2 posted on 02/21/2006 1:07:56 PM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - They want to die for Islam, and we want to kill them.)
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To: bildabare

Pinging Art Bell Pinging Art Bell


3 posted on 02/21/2006 1:07:58 PM PST by al baby (Father of the Beeber)
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To: bildabare

Beat me to it. There is a difference between clinical death - where one of several life processes stops - and actual death, where decay and deterioration starts to happen.

If you can be started back up, you were not actually dead to begin with.


4 posted on 02/21/2006 1:08:59 PM PST by AbeKrieger (Hey Muslims - guess what I drew today?)
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To: 2banana
Out of coursity - is there any documentation for someone who was clinically dead and saw allah in paradise with 72 virgins waiting...?

No complete documentation exists. But there are bits and pieces around!

5 posted on 02/21/2006 1:10:07 PM PST by 17th Miss Regt
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To: al baby; BurbankKarl
BeebDad, I think you forgot to add Burbankarl to that ping?

:o)

6 posted on 02/21/2006 1:10:26 PM PST by IllumiNaughtyByNature (My pug is on her war footing.)
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To: bildabare

Jesus said there is and therefor I don't need someone else confirming it ...


7 posted on 02/21/2006 1:13:03 PM PST by SkyDancer (" Ok, if it's global warming then what caused the Ice Age and what ended it?")
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To: bildabare
"...the brain may merely be a transmitter and receiver for information..."

What physical interaction mediates this transmission and reception? Where's the evidence for such an interaction? Where are the specific transmission and reception sites in the brain? Why haven't brain anatomists seen such sites?

Sheesh...

8 posted on 02/21/2006 1:14:13 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: AbeKrieger
If you can be started back up, you were not actually dead to begin with.

Oh yea? Then how exactly do you explain this?

He's dead, but he just keeps coming back.

9 posted on 02/21/2006 1:14:27 PM PST by Ditto
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To: AbeKrieger

But if you are brain dead, then you are not supposed to be able to think. If you get new memories from that time, where did they come from?


10 posted on 02/21/2006 1:14:49 PM PST by epluribus_2
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To: snarks_when_bored

neutrinos.


11 posted on 02/21/2006 1:15:23 PM PST by epluribus_2
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To: Ditto

Post of the day! Bravo!!


12 posted on 02/21/2006 1:16:40 PM PST by day10 (Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense.)
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To: bildabare

If there was a way to prove there was life after death without accepting it by faith the credit card collection people would have discovered it by now.


13 posted on 02/21/2006 1:16:42 PM PST by blue-duncan
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To: epluribus_2
neutrinos

(laughing) Uh-huh.

14 posted on 02/21/2006 1:17:31 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: AbeKrieger

If we don't have a good definition of when life begins, I doubt we have a good definition of when death begins.


15 posted on 02/21/2006 1:17:40 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: 17th Miss Regt

LOL


16 posted on 02/21/2006 1:18:02 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: snarks_when_bored

Have they figured out where dreams occur?


17 posted on 02/21/2006 1:19:12 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: snarks_when_bored

Since next to nothing is known about the human body- it's as good a theory as any other. Doctors are glorified butchers when it comes to the brain. Sure- they can cut out a tumor, but big whoop. Recreate a brain in the lab. The fastest super computer is a toy compared to a single nerve cell.


18 posted on 02/21/2006 1:20:45 PM PST by bildabare
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To: bildabare; eyespysomething

There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.

We don't need a cardiologist to answer the difficult questions, we've got Derek Acorah every Friday night ...


19 posted on 02/21/2006 1:20:50 PM PST by SittinYonder (That's how I saw it, and see it still.)
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To: mlc9852
Have they figured out where dreams occur?

Since you asked...

'Dream centre' of the brain found

20 posted on 02/21/2006 1:21:58 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: bildabare
Since next to nothing is known about the human body- it's as good a theory as any other.

No, it's not as good a theory as any other. There is zero evidence for it...zero. The more reasonable theory, based on what we know of brain anatomy and function, is that the brain is a self-contained organ of the human body, going about its work of keeping the body alive in a myriad of ways.

21 posted on 02/21/2006 1:24:51 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: bildabare

Holy Tradition says Lazarus (who became the first Bishop of Cyprus) told no tales, never laughed after his resurrection, and only smiled once--upon seeing a man stealing a piece of pottery, he smiled and said, "Clay stealing clay."


22 posted on 02/21/2006 1:24:53 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: bildabare

But what about the Virgins???


23 posted on 02/21/2006 1:25:51 PM PST by sono (Note to Rep. Weldon: Subpoena Spitzer!)
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To: snarks_when_bored

Thanks - looks interesting. I'll read it this evening.


24 posted on 02/21/2006 1:25:53 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852

It's a brief article. Clearly, there's still much more to learn about that specific brain region and, of course, about the brain in its entirety.


25 posted on 02/21/2006 1:28:37 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored

Well, you don't obviously believe in the concept of a spirit, so yes, that would seem absurd to you. Besides the reception/transmission sites could consist of just a handful of cells, or, several cells could share the function at several sites and multitask. Who knows. The brain is incredibly complex, and 4 dimensional.

The brain is the hardware, the spirit the software. Big deal- a spirit is just a piece of living software-- nothing unbelievable about it- just another piece of technology. Highly advanced, but still just a form of machine/device.


26 posted on 02/21/2006 1:29:12 PM PST by bildabare
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To: bildabare

Many years ago there was a doctor who claimed he proved there were souls. Supposedly, he would put scales under a dying person's bed and at the time of death, the scales showed a decrease in weight of about 4 oz. Hence, a soul weighs 4 oz. Whatever.


27 posted on 02/21/2006 1:32:16 PM PST by mtbopfuyn (Legality does not dictate morality... Lavin)
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To: snarks_when_bored
What physical interaction mediates this transmission and reception? Where's the evidence for such an interaction?

I don't have an axe to grind one way or another on this subject, but I did see an interesting experiment done about 15 years ago.

There is a common optical illusion that looks like black and white cowhide. If you look at just the right way - you see a bearded face (looks like Jesus). When people are tested on this, the percentage of people who see the face is fairly consistent - 15%. The other 85% only see the cow hide pattern.

They tested several thousand people in Australia, and got the same 15% result.

Then the optical illusion was printed on milk cartons in Denmark for a month with instructions on how to see the face.

The researchers then went back to Australia and tested several thousand different people. This time the face recognition was up to 40%.

The researchers were trying to prove that there is a "universal consciousness" that humans tap into. They say that more people in Australia could see the face because of what happened in Denmark -proving to them that the Australians somehow "picked up" what the Danes were taught.

These proponents say this Universal Consciousness is the reason that humans seem to pick up and learn things all over the world at the same time and its the reason we are so adaptable to new ideas.

They say that thinking that all our consciousness does not take place in our brains - but "somewhere else". They say a perfect example is a primitive seeing and hearing a radio for the first time. The primitive would have trouble grasping that the music was not originating from inside the radio - but the radio was only picking up the sound. They say that when we are looking at the human brain, we are making the same assumption.

Please don't flame me on this - I'm not saying I buy any of this, I'm only relaying what some researchers believe.

28 posted on 02/21/2006 1:34:33 PM PST by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: bildabare

bildabare, could you address one of the questions I asked in my initial post: "What physical interaction mediates this transmission and reception?" I presume you're not suggesting that there is a non-physical, spiritual transfer of information taking place, whatever that might mean. By 'physical interaction' I'm referring to what are usually called 'forces', e.g., electromagnetism or gravitation or the weak nuclear force or the strong nuclear force.


29 posted on 02/21/2006 1:35:01 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: mtbopfuyn

Yeah, that's pretty screwy. If you look at a cell under a microscope at the time of death, it just dies. No change in chemistry or what not. Just ceases to live. The Bible teaches that the body without the spirit is dead. A computer without it's software is non-functional. Same difference.


30 posted on 02/21/2006 1:36:01 PM PST by bildabare
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To: Tokra

No flames from me. But, of course, there's zero evidence for the existence of Universal Consciousness.


31 posted on 02/21/2006 1:36:10 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: bildabare

Clinically dead= Limbo or perhaps Purgatory?


32 posted on 02/21/2006 1:36:56 PM PST by wolfcreek
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To: bildabare

What a sad outlook.


33 posted on 02/21/2006 1:38:21 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: snarks_when_bored

If everything happens in the brain, where are the memories? Why can't we decode them?


34 posted on 02/21/2006 1:39:26 PM PST by Flavius Josephus (LSM: Controversy, Crap, & Confusion)
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To: epluribus_2

thetans


35 posted on 02/21/2006 1:39:52 PM PST by Flavius Josephus (LSM: Controversy, Crap, & Confusion)
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To: snarks_when_bored

Well, I believe that our bodies are simply machines-- earth suits if you will, perfectly suited for this planet, so that our spirits, which have no mass and do not exist in space/time, can express themselves.

So you're talking about a non-physical entity expressing itself through a series of peripherals, (eye working as camera to transmit images to spirit), ears to transmit sound, touch taste, legs to move spirit from place to place, etc.

So, where does the interaction, the interface take place between the physical world and the non-physical? Where does the proto-thought become the thought? Fine question, and I wish I knew the answer to that, but there are so many things we don't know I'll just have to put that on the list.

I heard a woman one day speculating that memory was located in ever cell of the body, but that is nonsense- since your arms and legs can be lost, and your head could basically be kept alive in a dish if blood/oxygen/glucose were supplied to it. So the mechanism is to be found in the brain. Parts of the brain can be removed without causing a seperation of spirit/body, so I imagine it is located in a section outside of those?

As far as I know, no scientist has ever explored this, in a surgical way.


36 posted on 02/21/2006 1:43:37 PM PST by bildabare
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To: epluribus_2

People that get restarted generally aren't brain dead. Generally they're heart dead (heart not beating) but the brain keeps clicking for a while after that (until the lack of fresh oxygen going to the brain because of the heart does enough damage that the brain stops). Brain dead is irreversible, heart dead isn't.


37 posted on 02/21/2006 1:43:46 PM PST by discostu (a time when families gather together, don't talk, and watch football... good times)
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To: bildabare

Kind of hard to get volunteers for that kind of experiment.


38 posted on 02/21/2006 1:45:24 PM PST by Flavius Josephus (LSM: Controversy, Crap, & Confusion)
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To: mlc9852

What a sad outlook.



No, not sad at all. I'm merely saying that we were designed by God, just as we design works of our own. But God uses science to do everything. A spirit isn't magical. Nothing is magical. Every cell of your body is composed of energy, different wavelengths of light-- the basic building block of the universe. Are our bodies machines? Certainly. Most of what and who we are is spirit. But, are our spirits "spiritual", that is, do they have a basis in some sort of law/science? Certainly. A spirit is made or manufactured like any other device. THat's not demeaning. EVerything has to be made of something-- even if that something has no mass, and isn't affected by time/acceleration/gravity. Just a different set of rules/laws apply.


39 posted on 02/21/2006 1:49:16 PM PST by bildabare
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To: discostu

This author is only talking about people who's EEGs have flatlined. No electrical activity taking place in the brain at all. Granted, the equipment has not become necrotic or you're correct, we couldn't get them back. So this is the experimental universe we are limited to.


40 posted on 02/21/2006 1:49:27 PM PST by Flavius Josephus (LSM: Controversy, Crap, & Confusion)
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To: Flavius Josephus

The Bible teaches that animals also have rudimentary spirits- so they would work too.


41 posted on 02/21/2006 1:50:06 PM PST by bildabare
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To: snarks_when_bored
But, of course, there's zero evidence for the existence of Universal Consciousness.

Then how do you explain the Denmark/Australia optical illusion experiment?

42 posted on 02/21/2006 1:50:13 PM PST by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: Flavius Josephus
If everything happens in the brain, where are the memories? Why can't we decode them?

We're still not certain how the brain stores memories...it probably stores different sorts of memories in different ways and various brain areas. The hippocampus is especially important in retrieving memories; it seems to be the master cataloguer that governs access to them and also sees to it that they're stored.

As for 'where' memories are, my memories (as physical states) almost certainly reside within my brain inside my skull. I can't say exactly what form these physical states take...yet. But we're just starting to study the brain seriously. Wait a while.

43 posted on 02/21/2006 1:50:25 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: bildabare
...our spirits, which have no mass and do not exist in space/time...

I simply don't know what this means. Sorry.

44 posted on 02/21/2006 1:51:49 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: Tokra
Then how do you explain the Denmark/Australia optical illusion experiment?

I wouldn't know where to begin to explain that. For one thing, I'd have to examine the experimental protocol, determine who knew what about what and when, determine what sort of news coverage was given the experiment in both Denmark and Australia (to try to get some idea of what could've come to the attention of people in both countries, even if peripherally). There are questions upon questions to be asked about any sort of so-called 'experiment' like that.

45 posted on 02/21/2006 1:55:04 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored

fair enough. But c'mon-- the dead/alive cat in the box isn't freaky? The universe is odd at all levels. Especially the very small, and in this case, nothing is more odd than leaving the universe completely and speculating about the non- physical. Lots to learn. But in order for science to grow, we're going to have to leave the idea behind that we have to quantify everything. SOme things just can't be studied directly. Not everything is here to be studied. We live in a multidimensional world.


46 posted on 02/21/2006 1:55:41 PM PST by bildabare
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To: Flavius Josephus

Part of the problem with trying to figure this kind of stuff out is that one of the things our brain truly excels at is filling in the blanks. The brain has to backfill data constantly (like every time you detect motion for one example since the optic center actually sees stills) and could easily be doing that in response to an NDE. Or the signals may have gotten too slight to detect. Or the doctor could be right.


47 posted on 02/21/2006 1:57:20 PM PST by discostu (a time when families gather together, don't talk, and watch football... good times)
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To: epluribus_2; snarks_when_bored

I doubt neutrions are it. In the same spirit however, string theory predicts that ~11 dimentions actually exist, not just the 3 we easily perceive. Personally, that's my main hope for something tangible existing beyond what we frimly know. If string theory is ever demonstrated, then there is a whole lot of stuff hiding right under our noses.


48 posted on 02/21/2006 1:58:06 PM PST by SteveMcKing
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To: bildabare
But in order for science to grow, we're going to have to leave the idea behind that we have to quantify everything. SOme things just can't be studied directly. Not everything is here to be studied. We live in a multidimensional world.

It sounds as if you're recommending a kind of New Age-y approach to science. No thanks. And I strongly recommend that you not drive over any bridge that might have been designed by somebody who espouses such an approach!

Best regards...

49 posted on 02/21/2006 2:04:04 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: bildabare

Is There Life After Death? Trespass Here And Find Out.


50 posted on 02/21/2006 2:08:46 PM PST by AZRepublican ("The degree in which a measure is necessary can never be a test of the legal right to adopt it.")
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