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THE "SIRI THESIS" UNRAVELS
Inside The Vatican ^ | February, 2006 | Editor

Posted on 02/22/2006 11:51:34 AM PST by Youngstown

The "Siri Thesis" Unravels - by Inside the Vatican staff

In our confusing times, many otherwise faithful traditional Catholics have denounced and broken with "conciliar Rome," including the "conciliar Popes." But that has not ended the confusion...

"It has been very well observed that there is no such thing as an impartial historian. Every man who sets out to trace the development of life, whether in politics, religion, or art, is bound to do so with some theory in his mind... The historian, or the theologian, who is most nearly impartial is not he who has no view, but he who is aware of other views, and can give them due consideration." -- Monsignor Robert Hugh Benson, May 1907, paper read before the Society of St. Thomas of Canterbury, an organization of Anglican clergy studying the history of Western Christendom.

When the American film director Mel Gibson distributed his film The Passion of The Christ in 2004, this magazine followed the controversy closely. We devoted two cover stories to the topic when the controversy over the film touched the Vatican, after Pope John Paul II agreed to view the film and offer a brief judgment ("It is as it was"), suggesting that he found no underlying theological problem with the film’s portrayal of Christ’s passion.

During those months of controversy, there was considerable interest in the faith that inspired Gibson’s work -- his fervent Catholicism. It became public knowledge that Gibson attended Mass every morning while shooting the film -- and that the Masses he attended were celebrated according to the old, pre-conciliar Latin rite.

As is well known, this journal has long argued in defense of the "old Mass," even calling for its universal restoration throughout the Roman Catholic Church. Our position has been based on the principle that the "old Mass," celebrated for centuries by Popes and saints, could never be legitimately suspected of any serious theological defect -- that to suspect or accuse the "old Mass" of having a serious theological defect was a theological impossibility for an orthodox believing Catholic.

This position in defense of the old liturgy, which we continue to hold, has given us a certain intellectual common ground with many who, like Gibson, have preferred to attend the "old Mass."

But as we have explored the reasons and consequences for this preference in an ongoing series of conversations with so-called "traditional Catholics," we have discovered what many of our readers may already know very well: that in traditional Catholic circles there are many who have become so confused, frustrated and embittered by the developments in Catholicism in the past 40 years, in the period since the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965), that they have come to oppose the Council itself, and even the Church hierarchy that since the Council has almost universally preached that Vatican II brought a "new springtime" to the Church. This opposition has, in some quarters, extended even to the Popes themselves: John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I, John Paul II, and even Benedict XVI. This opposition, therefore, has taken these traditional Catholics to the verge of a break with Rome.

If one looks on the internet, one can quickly find references to small groups claiming to be Catholic which follow various self-proclaimed "Popes." There are at least a dozen or two. Scattered here and there around the word are chapels and communities which gather around aging traditional priests to celebrate the traditional Mass, no longer maintaining any formal connection with Rome.

This is, of course, worrisome. But there are many worrisome realities in the Church today. Elsewhere in this issue, in the report of Father John McCloskey, facts are presented which must cause any thoughtful Catholic to pause and reflect. The overall picture of the Catholic Church presented is one in which the Church has suffered severe objective reverses -- lower numbers of Catholics attending Mass, lower numbers of women entering religious life, lower numbers of Catholics believing in the Real Presence, and so forth -- during the past 40 years since the Council.

This does not mean that many good things may not also be happening, some of them "under the surface."

Nor does it mean that something "worse" might not have happened had the Second Vatican Council not occurred.

But it does mean that there is an objective basis for many serious Catholics to feel dismayed and to ask, "What caused this?"

In other words, given the crisis in the liturgy, in Mass attendance, in traditional sacramental belief, in the priesthood (the various scandals), in the episcopate, in the Church’s seminaries and universities, in the family life of ordinary Catholics, it is understandable that thoughtful Catholics should ask, "What went wrong?"

It is not the purpose of this article to offer a comprehensive answer. It would require the work of many thoughtful scholars and believers, and perhaps many decades of time, even to begin to formulate such an answer. But it is our purpose to suggest that now, 40 years after Vatican II, at the beginning of a new pontificate, following a pontificate which lasted for 26 years, may perhaps be an opportune time to begin to try to sort through things and to bring a bit of clarity out of the confusion.

Confusion has always been and will always be the enemy of the Church. Precision in language, exact definitions, clarity of understanding, do not readily allow for confusion. This is what we need.

In this context, we were intrigued by a small newsletter which recently arrived in our editorial offices. It was the December 2005 issue of an 8-page typewritten newsletter entitled "The War Is Now!", edited by Hutton Gibson, the father of Mel Gibson the actor and film producer.

In this newsletter, Hutton Gibson gives a fascinating glimpse into the minds of Catholics who have grown so frustrated and confused by the shifting "trends" in the post-conciliar Church that they have latched onto various "conspiracy theories" to explain what has happened.

The elder Gibson argues that one of the more elaborate of these conspiracy theories, called the "Siri thesis," simply isn’t true and must be discarded.

The "Siri thesis" argues that the rather conservative cardinal archbishop of Genoa, Giuseppe Siri, was actually elected Pope in 1958, but that his election was suppressed, leading to the election of Angelo Roncalli, who became John XXIII, called the Council, rehabilitated Giovanni Battista Montini, who became Paul VI, thus ushering in the entire "post-Pius XII" era in the Church.

The "Siri thesis" emerged among traditionalist Catholics who came to believe that "something went wrong" in the Church after the 1958 conclave, after the death of Pope Pius XII, who was therefore viewed as the "last good Pope."

Believers in this "thesis" are therefore a species of "sede vacantist" which might be denominated "sede impeditist," that is, those who believe that the past five popes are "antipopes" and that Siri remained the "true Pope" until his death in 1989, but was "impeded" from serving as the bishop of Rome.

The "Siri thesis" is built upon one key point: the issue of the "white smoke" that appeared for a brief time on October 26, 1958, before changing to black. The thesis is that Siri was elected on that occasion, that the smoke was white to signal his election, but that the color changed to black when the conclave annulled or overturned Siri’s election.

A key piece of evidence for this theory has been an article written by Silvio Negro for the evening edition of Corriere della Sera (Milan, Italy) for October 27, 1958.

But, according to the elder Gibson, the Negro article has been misunderstood by the proponents of the "Siri thesis." Negro narrates a story from the 1939 conclave, when the smoke was also a confusing mixture of white and black, until the secretary of the conclave, one Monsignor Santoro, sent a note to Vatican Radio to advise that, so matter what color the smoke seemed, it was white, and that Eugenio Pacelli had been elected Pope Pius XII.

In the elder Gibson’s December newsletter, however, this "Siri thesis" is denounced as false, built on shoddy scholarship and inadequate fact checking.

The proponents of the "Siri thesis," perhaps due to limited familiarity with the Italian language, had misunderstood Negro’s article, and concluded that he was writing about the 1958 conclave. Thus, for proponents of the "Siri thesis," Monsignor Santoro sent out a note from the 1958 conclave to say that, no matter what the color of the smoke, a Pope had been elected. As the elder Gibson notes in his December newsletter, however, there was one problem: Santoro was not the secretary of the 1958 conclave at all, but of the 1939 conclave. The entire "Siri thesis" was based on a simple misreading of an Italian newspaper article.

This "Siri thesis" is not the only one being circulated in traditionalist circles to explain the modern woes of the Church, but it has come to be believed by hundreds, perhaps thousands of people around the world, Inside the Vatican has been told by sources in the traditionalist movement.

The elder Gibson and some of his associates have confirmed to Inside the Vatican that the "Siri thesis" the elder Gibson "debunks" in his December 2005 newsletter still has adherents in virtually every country on earth.

We find this announcement by the elder Gibson interesting because it reveals two important things: (1) how people who are perplexed by change (in this case, some traditional Catholics), may grasp at untenable theories in order to explain disturbing realities; and yet (2) how an openness to sifting theories to ascertain their conformity to historical truth can persist even in these same traditionalist Catholic circles.

As one associate of the elder Gibson expressed it to us: "If the truth about our current confusion is ever to be clarified and understood, the necessary first step must be for those suspicious of Rome and of recent pontiffs to commit themselves to seeking the truth even if it goes against deeply-held positions arrived at without all the evidence in hand."

Thus, the "Siri thesis" has been dismantled by "insiders," members of that very traditional Catholic milieu which had been favorable to the idea in principle.

This reveals that, despite their understandable confusion about the situation of the Church in the early 21st century and their continuing dissatisfaction with the Church’s leadership in Rome, these traditional Catholics have considerable good will, that is, they are committed to seeking the truth, not "conspiracy theories" without any foundation in fact.

As one traditional Catholic involved in this controversy wrote in January to Inside the Vatican: "Love of the truth as evidenced by Mr. Hutton Gibson and others is based upon advice given by St. Anselm to his disciple: ‘You must not so cling to what we have said, as to abide by it obstinately, when others with more weighty arguments succeed in overthrowing ours and establishing opinions against them,’ and further, ‘If there is anything that calls for correction I do not refuse the correction.’"

If this is the perspective of the most radical of the Catholic traditionalists, there seems room for guarded optimism about the possibility of coming to some sort of meeting of the minds over the questions which most trouble Catholic traditionalists, involving the changes in the Church’s liturgy and in her rites of ordination of priests and consecration of bishops. In this new pontificate, the time may have come for traditional Catholics and "conciliar Rome" to "reason together" to find a way forward in a complex and confusing world.


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; History; Mainline Protestant; Orthodox Christian; Prayer; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Religion & Science; Skeptics/Seekers; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: antisemitism; bigot; catholic; church; conspiracies; council; faith; huttongibson; melgibson; nutter; oldkook; papacy; paranoia; popepiusxii; roman; roncalli; second; sedecacantist; sedeimpedita; sedeprivationist; sedevacante; sedevacantism; siri; vatican; vaticanii
To quote the editor of Inside the Vatican:

"Thus, the "Siri thesis" has been dismantled by "insiders," members of that very traditional Catholic milieu which had been favorable to the idea in principle."

"This reveals that, despite their understandable confusion about the situation of the Church in the early 21st century and their continuing dissatisfaction with the Church’s leadership in Rome, these traditional Catholics have considerable good will, that is, they are committed to seeking the truth, not "conspiracy theories" without any foundation in fact."

"If this is the perspective of the most radical of the Catholic traditionalists, there seems room for guarded optimism about the possibility of coming to some sort of meeting of the minds over the questions which most trouble Catholic traditionalists, involving the changes in the Church’s liturgy and in her rites of ordination of priests and consecration of bishops. In this new pontificate, the time may have come for traditional Catholics and "conciliar Rome" to "reason together" to find a way forward in a complex and confusing world."

1 posted on 02/22/2006 11:51:39 AM PST by Youngstown
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To: Youngstown; american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; ...
Welcome to Free Republic!

Catholic Ping - Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


2 posted on 02/22/2006 12:31:24 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah

ping


3 posted on 02/22/2006 1:09:29 PM PST by nickcarraway (I'm Only Alive, Because a Judge Hasn't Ruled I Should Die...)
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To: Youngstown
Yes, welcome to FR!

Hmm, never heard of the "Siri Thesis" before. It doesn't surprise me though.

People arguing over the color of smoke to "justify" their position. I guess they needed a break from the "3rd-secret-of-Fatima-hasn't-really-been-revealed-yet-even-though-Sister-Lucia-said it-was" theory.

I am in agreement and hopeful with the Editors at Inside the Vatican that "traditional Catholics" and "conciliar Rome" the Holy See of the Catholic Church may REASON together for the full reunion of those who have chosen schismatic tendencies.

The ball of Faith and reason now lies in the "traditionalist" court to decide if they will play it.

4 posted on 02/22/2006 1:19:56 PM PST by TotusTuus
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To: Youngstown

If Cardinal Siri had been elected pope by the 1958 coclave, and declined to become pope, for any reason, he wouldn't be pope. It wouldn't be the first time someone declined to be pope. That just means there is another vote and whoever is elected becomes the legitimate pope.


5 posted on 02/22/2006 1:37:02 PM PST by nickcarraway (I'm Only Alive, Because a Judge Hasn't Ruled I Should Die...)
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To: Youngstown
Consider this...the recent Cheney shooting was really a cover-up. Among the hunters that day was a beautiful Swedish Diplomat and it was she who shot Cheney's buddy.

Why did Cheney coner-up for her? Because she is his lover.

But, it gets even worse. She, the beauatiful blonde, is the daughter of the blonde man seen firing shots from the grassy knoll near Dealey Plaza. Enough said about that.

For lunch on that fateful day, Cheney drank a Coors beer. The Coors family is German and we all know that Prescott Bush helped fund Herr Hitler's war machine.

What isn't so well known is that the Coors live in Colorado and they are HUGE supporters of Haliburton and Oil Companies which are polluting the world and causing Global Warming. The reason? Global Warming will cause the Polar Ice Caps to melt and cause a devestating flood nearly submerging our continent and making Colorado a coastal State.

THAT is the significance of the Cheney shooting matter but few realize it.

What does this have to do with the Siri thesis? Cheney sort of looks like Siri did and Cheney is the real President just like Siri was the real Pope.

It is all so obvious when you simply make the obvious connections

6 posted on 02/22/2006 3:42:57 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: TotusTuus
Ohe huge reason for the Siri thesis is the antisemitism on the extreme right. It is a pernicious poison which leads to paranoid conspiracy theories.

The Papacy was high-jacked by heretics and judaizers etc. One can read the texts,peridocials, etc on the paranoid right and become sickened by the hatred of the Jews and find many examples of blaming them for Vatican Two teachings such as Nostra Aetate.

And Mr. Hutton is one such antisemitic individual

Here is another example...

“During the Conclave, a Cardinal left the Sistine Chapel, met with the representatives of B’nai - B’rith, announced to them the election of Cardinal Siri. They replied by saying that the persecutions against the Church would continue at once. Returning to the Conclave, he made Montini to be elected.”

On pages 607 to 609 of his book, "The Keys Of This Blood," Fr. Malachi Martin, perennial insider (infiltrator) and eye-witness to the '63 Conclave, admits that Siri was elected Pope (again) in 1963, but that his election was "set aside" because of an outside "communication" (interference) by an "internationally based organization", regarding a "grave matter of [Vatican] state security." He then tries to justify outside interference of the conclave if it is conducted "by authorized persons" or if "the very existence of the Vatican City-State or its members or dependents" were at stake."

[Note: Fifteen minutes after Pope Gregory XVII ("Cardinal Siri") died on May 3, 1989, Fr. Malachi Martin called Mr. Gary Giuffre, the expert on Gregory XVII's Pontificate, from Italy and angerly blurted out to Mr. Giuffre (paraphrase) "Drop it, he's ("Siri") dead!" There is evidence that Fr. Martin was a Marrano (cryptic-Jew)

*It is sick and twisted and evil but that is what passes for "information" now-a-days

7 posted on 02/22/2006 3:53:53 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic
This is one of the reasons why I am concerned about the rush to normalize relations with the SSPX. I am all for reconciliation. But the anti-Semitism in the society is so pervasive, that the Vatican is setting themselves up for an unfortunate level of embarrassment when this gets reported (as it inevitably will) in the MSM. They really need to make sure the SSPX goes on th record repudiating anti-Semitism as a condition of reconciliation.
8 posted on 02/22/2006 5:31:29 PM PST by jecIIny (You faithful, let us pray for the Catechumens! Lord Have Mercy)
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To: bornacatholic
bac: Mr. Martin was an agent for the Jewish organizations.

There was an article published in 1966 in Look Magazine (I have a photocopy of it off the microfilm from the library because it gives the actual details of Mr. Martin's departure from Rome) which outlines his role:

http://www.fisheaters.com/jewsvaticanii.html

Joseph Roddy, "How the Jews Changed Catholic Thinking", "Look" Magazine, Volume 30 No. 2, January 25, 1966

The American Jewish Committee's intellectual monthly, Commentary, had offered a most bleak report on the Council and the Jews by the pseudonymous F. E. Cartus. In a footnote, the author referred the reader to a confirming account in The Pilgrim, a 281-page book by the pseudonymous Michael Serafian. Later, in Harper's magazine, Cartus, even more dour, added to the doubts on the Jewish text. To buttress his case, he recast Pilgrim passages and cited Council accounts in Time, whose Rome correspondent had surfaced for by-line status as author of a notably good book on the Council. At the time, both Time and the New York Times were glad to have an inside tipster. Just for the journalistic fun of it, the inside man's revelations were signed "Pushkin," when slipped under some correspondents' doors. But readers were served no rewritten Pushkin on the Council's last sessions. The cassock had come off the double agent who could never turn down work. Pushkin, it turned out, was Michael Serafian in book length, F.E. Cartus for the magazines, and a translator in the Secretariat for Christian Unity, while keeping up a warm friendship with the AJC. At the time, Pushkin-Serafian- Cartus was living in the Biblical Institute, where he had been known well since his ordination in 1954, though he will be known here as Timothy Fitzharris O'Boyle, S.J. For the journalists, the young priest's inside tips and tactical leaks checked out so well that he could not resist gilding them every now and then with a flourish of creative writing. And an imprecision or two could even be charged off to exhaustion in his case. He was known to be working on a book at a young married couple's flat. The book finally got finished, but so did half of the friendship. Father Fitzharris-O'Boyle knew it was time for a forced march before his religious superior could inquire too closely into the reasons for that crisis in camaraderie. He left Rome then, sure that he could be of no more use locally.

Apart from his taste for pseudonyms, fair ladies, reports on the nonexistent and perhaps a real jester's genius for footnotes, Fitzharris- O'Boyle was good at his job in the Secretariat, valuable to the AJC and is still thought of by many around Rome as a kind of genuine savior in the diaspora. Without him, the Jewish declaration might well have gone under early, for it was Fitzharris-O'Boyle who best helped the press harass the Romans wanting to scuttle it. The man has a lot of priests' prayers.

In all his books published since 1970, Mr. Martin listed "The Pilgrim" under the pseudonym "Michael Serafian" as one of his works. Mr. Martin is the Irish Priest spoken of in this article. More recently, Robert Kaiser has come forward to publicly admit in "Clerical Error: A True Story" to being the man with whose wife Mr. Martin had an adulterous affair, confirming more of what this article contains, and not just an adulterous affair, but one polluted with birth control and feminist brainwashing of the man's wife.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/734637/posts

This is why as you well know: "In 1965, Mr. Martin received a dispensation from all privileges and obligations deriving from his vows as a Jesuit and from priestly ordination." [Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, 25 June 1997, Prot. N. 04300/65].

9 posted on 02/22/2006 6:46:56 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: bornacatholic
Among the hunters that day was a beautiful Swedish Diplomat and it was she who shot Cheney's buddy.

Sources tell me that she was a Dane.

10 posted on 02/23/2006 6:25:05 PM PST by Frank Sheed ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions." ~GK Chesterton.)
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To: Frank Sheed
Dane is just an anagram of Dean. The "fact" she was a "Dane" is just an inside joke at John Dean and his cooperation in the bringing down of President Nixon. Jokesters, think of them as presidential merry pranksters, put out the word she was a "Dane" to alert any "whistleblowers" that no matter what they might say, there will be no Dean this time. If they try it, they will be shot.

Cheny and his henchmen think of John Dean as a loud-mouthed chick. And that is the source of the "she is a Dane" witticism.

It is all so easy when you just take the time to connect the dots.

11 posted on 02/24/2006 4:59:27 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: Hermann the Cherusker

Yet, here in F R, Malachi is treated as though his writings were equivalent to the Gospel of St. John


12 posted on 02/24/2006 5:00:40 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic

Martin was a confused double-minded occultist. On the Art Bell radio show, he is recorded as having doubts about criminalizing abortion and expresses admiration for the spiritual prowess of Native American Shamans.


13 posted on 02/24/2006 5:50:29 AM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: bornacatholic

> It is all so obvious when you simply make the obvious connections


Don't leave me hanging!


14 posted on 02/24/2006 6:02:58 AM PST by XEHRpa
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
I am one Freepr who greatly values your contributions here. I especially value what you have to say about Malachi Martin. I consider his writings as one major contributing factor in severing the natural good will Catholics used to have for their Popes. His writings, the the insanity/inanities of the schism have poisoned the Catholic Well in America to the point where a majority of Catholic Freepers, it seems to me, are reflexively suspicious of virtually anything issuing from the Living Magisterium.

Well, that is probably over-stating it but Martin's writing have led many to think his fiction is barely-disguised Gospel truth rather than, as you note, the product of a double-minded man who committed adultry with the wife of a friend.

I have been over this stuff with some of my solid Christian Catholics friends but it never penetrates. They love Martin and his fiction.

15 posted on 02/24/2006 6:10:25 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic

Martin spins great Irish yarns, but it is just that ... fiction.


16 posted on 02/24/2006 6:17:30 AM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: sandyeggo; bornacatholic

I have never read Malachi Martin and never will. It seems to me, as bornacatholic has said above, that this man has with great gusto destroyed the Faith of many good Catholics. That is what The Deceiver aims to do. FR is good for many things. Posts like these are quite helpful in knowing where "not" to tread.

F


18 posted on 02/24/2006 7:46:57 AM PST by Frank Sheed ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions." ~GK Chesterton.)
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To: Frank Sheed

This whole Cardinal Siri business has helped to contribute to a good deal of the confusion affecting the ranks of America's "Traditonal Catholics," since at least the Spring of 1982. Not only that, but many priests and religious brothers of the religious orders, including the mis-named "Society of St.Pius X," have apparenlty evolved some pretty wild beliefs and practices of their very own, over the past generation.

In some cases these beliefs and practices appear to have more to do with those old-time winners, the Albigensians, than they do with any kind of orthodox christianity. Yeah, I'll have to agree, that when the pope is portrayed as weak and vacillating, any number of "special interests" can readily move in.

Like "the late but still the great" Smith Hempstone said 'way back in 1978, regarding the Jonestown Massacre: the key to Rev. Jones was that he made his followers really believe "that their souls, and not just their social security checks, were worth stealing."

I'm afraid many of today's "Siri Crowd," have been slow in picking up on this element anmong certain "Independent and Traditional Clergy!"


19 posted on 02/24/2006 8:35:11 AM PST by Dennis Paul Morony (Semper Fi!)
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To: Youngstown
You may want to check another view behind the so-called Siri "Thesis" to get a more complete picture of what is going on.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were true, but I would like to get the complete truth on this topic nonetheless.

20 posted on 03/26/2006 5:32:29 PM PST by huskyboy (Introibo ad altare Dei; non ad altare hominis!)
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To: huskyboy
Boy that sure is an attack piece LOL!

We'll just have to wait and see what else gets published on this issue.

21 posted on 03/28/2006 11:20:21 AM PST by Youngstown
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To: Frank Sheed; sandyeggo; bornacatholic; ninenot; sittnick
Read The Final Conclave which Malachi Martin published in 1977 a full year before Paul VI died. I am afraid that Fr. Martin is done a disservice here. He was also involved with Fr. Alfred Kuntz and Fr. Charles Fiore in actively rooting out closeted homosexual priests and bishops in Wisconsin/Illinois. Fr. Kuntz was found murdered by his throat having been sliced through. Fr. Fiore had left the Dominican Order to do much god with his family's manufacturing fortune, was a serious diabetic, was found in coma at his home after an apparent fall and was buried after a magnficent funeral Mass at St. Mary's Oratory in Rockford, Illinois and was attended during his last hospitalization by the Oratory's pastor. Fr. Martin was said to have fallen at home and apparently never recovered consciousness.

As to the opening Black Mass chapter of Windswept House, Fr. Martin had long suggested that the late Joseph Cardinal Bernardin (originally a priest of the Charleston, South Carolina diocese) and the late Belgian Leo Cardinal Suenens were involved in satanic activity and that they were not alone among our clergy. Proven or not, this ought not to be rejected out of hand.

22 posted on 08/18/2006 4:38:01 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: sandyeggo
Isn't the portrait of John Paul the Great painted in Fr. Martin's Windswept House rather that of the pope in the winter of his life surrounded by many who are enemies of his papacy and of the Church with the transitory (not ultimate) outcome in doubt due to satanic forces in the Church? One would think more questionable his thesis that there would be a split within the 33rd Degree Masons between those who are satanic and those who belatedly realize that the others are satanic and ride to the rescue of John Paul II, successfully or not.

Fr. Martin did not come right out and say who would be elected in The Final Conclave but left no doubt as to the direction of the pope to be elected: sharply rightward. That occurred in different ways under the very traditionalist John Paul I (probably murdered) and in geopolitics to the destruction of the Soviet Union and Iron Curtain under John Paul the Great.

23 posted on 08/18/2006 4:43:33 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: bornacatholic

I thought my head hurt after reading the article but now you have put me right into a migraine.


24 posted on 08/18/2006 4:50:28 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter
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