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Pre-Trib Rapture Arguments
2/24/06 | conserv 371

Posted on 02/24/2006 8:40:59 AM PST by conserv371

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To: Quix
Hey, thanks for the information. I have frequently believed that it was Darby who got it from some soothsayer or something (can't remember it right now).
Anyway, regardless of my position - I appreciate the information.
101 posted on 04/30/2007 1:13:38 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: GrandEagle

I love talking about it, not much for agueing
Until we see Him face to face, none of us will have all the answers.
Have a great week


102 posted on 04/30/2007 3:04:25 PM PDT by Mom MD (The scorn of fools is music to the ears of the wise)
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To: GrandEagle

I believe these are the tribulation saints, who missed the rapture then were saved. They will indeed reign with Christ during the millenium, as will we.


103 posted on 04/30/2007 3:06:11 PM PDT by Mom MD (The scorn of fools is music to the ears of the wise)
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To: Mom MD

If the Church was to go through the tribulation, it would hardly be a blessed hope to look forward to. I believe if Christ meant for the Church to go through the tribulation, there would be specific instructions how to do so.

Pauls teaching on the rapture in thessolonians tells us to comfort one another with these words, not scare the living daylights out of each other with these words

= = =

Excellent points I hadn’t thought about before. Thanks for your greatly enlightening post.

God’s best to you and yours.


104 posted on 04/30/2007 6:20:42 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: GrandEagle

Please ping me when you get back to it. I like iron sharpening iron discussions.


105 posted on 04/30/2007 6:21:35 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: GrandEagle

I’d known it was not Darby and that it was around in the first centuries. But I’d never read a good summary of that evidence before. I think this is just part of such evidence.


106 posted on 04/30/2007 6:23:07 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Mom MD

Amen.


107 posted on 04/30/2007 6:23:37 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix; DarthVader

Thanks Quix. The thought of being raptured is a glorious thought to me, be it pre- mid- or post-trib, getting caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord Jesus is a magnificent event which I look forward to.

I try to live my life now in such a way that my habits and my strength of character are at a point that if the Evil Days begin and we of saving faith are still here, that I will overcome until the end, please, Lord, make it so. That my heart doesn’t grow cold, that I don’t accept the mark of the beast, and that my hope and trust remain anchored in Jesus, the One Who forgives sin and conquers evil.

If it turns out we are raptured BEFORE the tribulation, I’m not gonna cling to my front porch and yell, NO NO I WON’T GO, IT’S TOO SOON !!!

I’m gonna say, GLORY HALLELUJAH THANK YOU JESUS and then I’ll sing and shout the victory on my way up to be with Him.

Meanwhile, I am praying for all those I love and all those I come in contact with and for the whole world to be made ready so that they may share with those of us who by faith have a place in His eternal Kingdom.


108 posted on 04/30/2007 6:34:16 PM PDT by JockoManning (Listen Online http://www.klove.com)
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To: Quix

Thanks, Quix. I am still not convinced of pre trib but,as I said before, I’ll grab my ticket at the station when the train pulls in.


109 posted on 04/30/2007 8:32:24 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: JockoManning

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!


110 posted on 04/30/2007 9:09:11 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Marysecretary

I understand. Bee back and forth on it myself over a lot of years.

This LaHaye, Jenkins book is well done—better than most I’ve read on such.


111 posted on 04/30/2007 9:10:22 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Marysecretary; All

Please consider this thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1826338/posts?page=1

For an update on Babylon


112 posted on 04/30/2007 9:11:58 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
Please ping me when you get back to it.
I'll be happy to - I'll give you a shout in just over a week. :)
113 posted on 05/01/2007 5:53:36 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: GrandEagle; Quix
I will be more than happy to discuss this with you but I don't care much for arguments. Hopefully we can discuss this as two believers in search of the truth. I certainly stand to be corrected if one can show it to me in Gods word.

WOW! Your attitude in this post is what I've been looking for in an "end-times" discussion. I too yearn for learning through God's word without arguments and condescension.

Thanks, Quix for re-posting this too.

Wiley

114 posted on 05/01/2007 6:48:15 AM PDT by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6a)
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To: GrandEagle

Thanks thanks.


115 posted on 05/01/2007 10:26:07 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: WileyPink

Sure. Thanks for your kind and well put responses.


116 posted on 05/01/2007 10:26:50 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: GrandEagle

People seem to be looking for a Tribulation with a capital “T” when the Bible refers to tribulation with a little “t”. In the 24th Chapter of Matthew, it refers to “after the tribulation of those days” as being the time when Christ would return. Who knows? Perhaps the earth has been in the tribulation ever since Christ ascended.


117 posted on 05/01/2007 2:35:13 PM PDT by Twinkie (Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God . . .)
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To: Twinkie

Given the great pains The Lord went to

in order to spell out specific numbers of days and weeks etc.

I think that hypothesis is highly improbable . . . so much so, as to be impossible, to me.


118 posted on 05/01/2007 4:07:50 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Twinkie; All

Folks may find the thread of excerpts from

ARE WE LIVING IN THE END TIMES

at this thread of interest:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1826338/posts?page=1


119 posted on 05/01/2007 4:38:27 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
Rev 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Pretty clear that this describes "the rapture", only problem is this happens after the first six seals are opened. One has to stretch pretty far to ignore it. The "Oh, those are the people who came to the Lord after the rapture" is real thin as they were have mentioned, while the main body was ignored in the text.

Nope, pre-trib is wishful thinking. Specially since the first two seals have already happened.

120 posted on 05/02/2007 10:17:33 AM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: conserv371
Pre-Trib Rapture Arguments

There are no pre-rib rapture arguments with a scriptural basis. There are plenty of pre-trib rapture arguments that stick little bits and pieces of scripture all over themselves in the hope that it will make the argument look scriptural, but all of them depend upon having previously begged the question.
121 posted on 05/02/2007 10:22:53 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: American in Israel

I’ve often thought that there’s more than one or two raptures.

I wonder if there’s a pre vs other list of Scriptures side by side.

I think I know which would be longer.


122 posted on 05/02/2007 10:27:50 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: aruanan

That’s not my perspective.

A number of folks have merely gone to Scripture to try and see what Scripture presented pro or con.


123 posted on 05/02/2007 10:29:07 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
A number of folks have merely gone to Scripture to try and see what Scripture presented pro or con

The fact that there is a pre-trib rapture position and that it started only in the historically recent past requires first that one ask where it came from and, after that, to ask how it is that people ignore clear scriptural teachings that contradict it because, absent a pre-existing belief in it, there is no scriptural teaching that supports it.
124 posted on 05/02/2007 11:08:50 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan
and that it started only in the historically recent past

That
has
been
proven
false.

Actually more than a time or 3. Can't find my specific post . . .

Ahhhhhh . . . Evidently you have not read my post 92 above.

I don't think the author's language was unclear. Are you calling 306-373 A.D. recent? or at the latest 565-627 recent? That would be a new definition of recent that I'd not been familiar with. Though, I still want to ask God about 2,000 years SOON, too! LOL.

BTW, there is PLENTY of Scriptural support for the Pre-Trib position. I hope to get it posted within a week or 2.

125 posted on 05/02/2007 11:45:10 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: JockoManning

The “evil days” are here folks and have been ever since Jesus ascended back to His Father in Heaven. What do you all think a quarter of a million people being killed in one year just in natural disasters is but astoundingly evil tribulation? Wars and rumors of wars? Nations rising against nation and kingdom agains kingdom? What were all the world wars and other numerous wars we see today and have seen in which MILLIONS of human beings have been killed other than tribulation? What was the Holocaust but tribulation with a capital “T”? A thousand years is as one day with the Lord and one day as a thousand years. Perhaps we have five thousand more year days to go before Christ returns - it should not matter. We need to be ready all the time and pray. Most of us would like to not have to face mortal death, but rather to be “changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye” and have our completed mortal bodies put on immortality; but whatever happens, the Lord has it all under control, perfect control. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord; He will take care of us, and He is faithful. He is in the NOW and time is no factor to Him.


126 posted on 05/04/2007 8:22:36 PM PDT by Twinkie (Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God . . .)
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To: Twinkie

So, you’re saying this is as bad as it’s going to get?


127 posted on 05/05/2007 4:15:21 AM PDT by JockoManning (Listen Online http://www.klove.com)
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To: JockoManning

I don’t know, Jocko, if this is as bad as it’s going to get? Scripture says evil men will wax worse and worse in the latter days . . and they are . . wars, rumors of wars, famines, pestilences (what about the Black Plague and the worldwide influenza epidemic that killed millions of people worldwide and only stopped when it ran out of human fuel, Bangladesh type starvations of whole populations, Rwanda, Civil War all over for generations, WWI, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War that went on forever, not to mention all the wars and rumors of wars rising in a crescendo from the time of Christ up until now, tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, volcanoes, earthquakes increasing also in a crescendo. I don’t think the Revelation of Jesus Christ (the book of Revelation) is only talking about the events of a few days that will cause some newspaper to come out and print as a headline “THIS IS THE TRIBULATION!!” . . but fear not, let him who is athirst drink freely from the fountain that is spoken of in the last chapter of Revelation.


128 posted on 05/05/2007 5:57:03 PM PDT by Twinkie (Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God . . .)
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To: WileyPink

As a curious new student of your Bible study class where do you stand on the “rapture” issue?

........Ping


129 posted on 05/08/2007 4:34:22 PM PDT by Ping-Pong
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To: Ping-Pong
Well, let me put it this way. I was raised believing the pre-trib rapture. I was taught that the rapture would occur then the anti-Christ would reign and...to be honest, I don't know.

I'm trying to get involved with some of these eschatology discussions. Some of the folks (on both sides) can get pretty mean spirited sometimes and it just pushes me away. I believe that whether we believe pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib, that we'll eventually get to the same eternity as long as Jesus is the basis for our salvation.

The main thing I've found in these FR eschatology discussions is self edification. I don't believe they do anything to add to the flock but it does help us to delve deeper into the word. And it the long run, that's a good thing regardless of the reason.

What about you?

130 posted on 05/08/2007 6:55:28 PM PDT by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6a)
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To: WileyPink
Rapture - What about you?

I don't believe in it at all. My concern is that if people are taught they will be raptured then they will be deceived when the anti-christ makes his appearance.

I see it as the main deception that he will use to make people believe he is Christ, coming to rapture them away. He does something that "deceiveth the whole world", something that will make Christians that have loved Christ all their lives change suddenly and follow him. The Christians that I know love Christ so much that that would be unthinkable to them so it has to be done deceitfully. They will believe it is Christ because they haven't been taught what will happen.

Many family members and friends of mine believe in the rapture and I am very, very worried about it. When I have talked to some of them and showed them scripture that I feel destroys the rapture doctrine they just do not want to hear it. As a dear sister-in-law said, but you should hear my preacher. It brings to mind when Jesus told us to "take heed and follow no man".

Another sister-in-law said, "but I'm saved, so why should I worry about that?" If she follows anti-christ, even unknowingly, then who is she saved to? He will never leave us but we can leave Him. He is a jealous God and said "have no other gods before Me".

I was taught that the rapture would occur then the anti-Christ would reign and...to be honest, I don't know.

I wish more people would keep that open mind and read what the Bible tells us will happen, not what man tells us. To those that continue to believe in rapture I try to tell them that if we all disappear, as the Left Behind books tells us will happen, then there is nothing to worry about but if someone comes looking like Jesus, doing miracles like Jesus, etc., as the Bible warns he will and we are still in our flesh bodies - go the other way - it is the fake. When Jesus arrives at the 7th trump we are all changed into our spirit bodies and the anti-christ can't do that.

That's how I feel about rapture, just very concerned.

......Ping

131 posted on 05/09/2007 10:41:32 AM PDT by Ping-Pong
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To: Ping-Pong
I don't believe in it at all.

I won't go that far. I do believe that we will be taken up...

1Theselonians 4:15-18 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

I just don't know when it's going to happen. I believe that we; (1)must admit that we are sinners, (2)believe that Jesus is the Son of God and was sent to this world to redeem us from those sins, (3)Confess that He is the Son of God, (4)and accept Him as our personal Savior for it is by Grace through Faith we are saved.

Those are the things that we must agree on. Everything else, including eschatology, we can debate, discuss, and learn from. I just wish we could do it in a way that is honoring to God and not boastful and attempting to be honoring to us.

In Christ,

132 posted on 05/10/2007 4:10:07 AM PDT by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6a)
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To: WileyPink
I just wish we could do it in a way that is honoring to God and not boastful and attempting to be honoring to us.

Amen. It can be Wiley even though it is difficult if one believes differently than another. There are some difficult posters but there are many that are not.

1Thessalonians 4:15-18 - As you, I also believe these verses but I don't believe it means "rapture" as rapture has been taught.

I believe that the subject of those verses is found in vs. 13, and concerns those that are "asleep". Paul is telling us that as Christians we should know that as Jesus died and rose again so will He bring back those that "sleep in Jesus".

Paul then tells us in vs 15 that those which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord , shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Another definition of prevent is preceed - We shall not preceed those that have died before us as they are already with Him. In vs. 16 Paul then tells us that when Jesus arrives it is, with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: This is the last trump and there are only seven (that perfect number) and the dead are first as they are already with Him.

Then we have the verse that I believe has been completely taken out of context -

17.Then we which are alive, and remain, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

In the clouds is a figure of speech. Paul used it another time in Heb.12:1, Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses..., as in a "cloud of locusts" - a big group. Air, as used here, doesn't mean up in the atmosphere but rather "to breathe unconciously, respire, naturally circumvent. If it is your "breath" as air, as God breathed our soul into us then it would be our spirit.

So to me the meaning of vs. 17 is: Then we which are still living when Christ returns will be caught up in a great crowd to meet the Lord in our spirit bodies and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This thought is further explained in:
1Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

There are many more places where I feel scripture tells us that we will be here at that 7th trump, not gone, but as far as I know, this "1Thess 4" scipture is the one most often used to teach rapture.

If you want to discuss more on this subject I would really enjoy it. There are other places where this subject is taught if you are at all interested. I like to hear others ideas on this and other subjects as I feel there is so much for us, as children of God, to learn.

In Christ.......Ping

133 posted on 05/10/2007 5:43:08 AM PDT by Ping-Pong
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To: Ping-Pong
Let me preface this by saying that I am above my pay-grade and well out of my comfort zone with this. So, having said that...

1Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The phrase, "shall be caught up", is translated from the word harpazō, which according to my reference means, to seize (in various applications): - catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

The phrase, "the clouds", is nephelē which is properly cloudiness, that is, (concretely) a cloud: - cloud.

To put this back in my terms, I must believe the Bible is literal in these cases. You know the old saying, "The Bible said it, that settles it." Otherwise, I/We would be trying to define nearly every thing that the Bible says. Now don't get me wrong. I know that symbolism, metaphors, and anthropomorphisms are in the Bible. But I also know that there are many places where the Bible is literal. I chose to believe that when the Bible says, "...we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air", that it means, "we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air".

134 posted on 05/10/2007 7:58:50 PM PDT by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6a)
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To: WileyPink
Hello WileyPink,

You don't sound like you're out of your "comfort zone" at all. I believe the Bible is being literal in the 1Thess.4:17 verse too. Completely literal, I just don't think it means what many are being taught it means.

It is reference to the 2nd Advent of Christ and when that happens at the 7th trump we will be literally "caught up". Everyone will as written in 1 Corinthians 15:51-53. All of us are changed. I take that literally too, whether it means it will be "in the air" or "in our spirit bodies" I guess really doesn't matter. It will happen.

My point in this is that nowhere did it say we would be flown away from earth to miss the tribulation. Perhaps those that teach rapture are taking that from a following verse, 1Thess.5:9, where it says:

For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

We aren't appointed to wrath. We're His children and He loves us but He never said He would keep us from the tribulation, rather we would be able to go through it. Some of our types, or examples, are Noah, Daniel in the lion's den, the 3 Hebrew children in the firey furnace, the plagues of the Exodus, etc. We will experience it and our safe passage is His Word:

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12.For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

If we carry the knowledge of God, His truth, His Word then we shall not be harmed during Satan's tribulation of deceit. We won't believe he is Christ and follow him.

Luke 21: tells us of that time but in vs. 18 Jesus says,"But not a hair of your head shall be lost" In the Olivet prophecies Jesus tells us what to expect in the end times and although He said, "I have foretold you all things", He never said He would take us away so we wouldn't experience the tribulation but rather told us what to expect and what to do during that time.

As I said in my earlier post, I believe that the 1Thess 4: verses are what is most often used to teach rapture. Those teachers need to go farther, to 2 Thessalonians to get the true meaning.

In the second letter of Paul to the Thessalonians, which followed not long after the first, he tried to clear up some misunderstandings his first letter caused:

2 Thess.2:1 Now, brethern, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you
2.Not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us though the day of Christ had come
.
That would be 1 Thess. letter
3.Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition.
Satan comes first, we will experience his tribulation before the coming of Christ. Satan is the abomination of desolation that (4)"sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Paul continues and warns us about Satan in the following verses:

9.The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders.
10.and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11.And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie.
12.that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

God sends the delusion, he allows this deception of Satan. He wrote a letter and expects us to read it and not listen to the traditions of men.

This was longer than I meant it to be but I feel very strongly about this subject. I hope you are not offended with this. Many are when rapture is discussed as they were raised with the idea. Please consider this and let me know your thoughts.

......Ping

135 posted on 05/11/2007 11:13:42 AM PDT by Ping-Pong
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To: conserv371
I believe this thread is what is known as a "kook magnet".

Excellent entertainment.

Thanks.

136 posted on 05/11/2007 11:26:14 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow; WileyPink
I believe this thread is what is known as a "kook magnet".

Why do you say that? Do you believe rapture to be a true teaching? Do you believe it to be false or do you think of God's Word as a whole to be "excellent entertainment" that only kooks discuss?

Please explain your remark.

Thank you.

137 posted on 05/11/2007 11:34:19 AM PDT by Ping-Pong
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To: Ping-Pong
This was longer than I meant it to be but I feel very strongly about this subject. I hope you are not offended with this. Many are when rapture is discussed as they were raised with the idea. Please consider this and let me know your thoughts.

That's ok, this is good stuff. I feel like I can discuss this even if I disagree with you and keep all respect. I will be back to this. Gotta go right now though. Wiley

138 posted on 05/11/2007 5:37:16 PM PDT by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6a)
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To: Ping-Pong
1Thessolians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

I agree that this verse refers to eternity. That we will be saved from God's wrath in the judgment, not necessarily during the tribulation. God never promised us that we would not have troubles {tribulation} but you're right, that He would lead us through it.

If we carry the knowledge of God, His truth, His Word then we shall not be harmed during Satan's tribulation of deceit. We won't believe he is Christ and follow him.

If you're right, the tribulation would be the ultimate test for us wouldn't it?

Please stay with me with this discussion. Your probes and questions force me to think and delve into the Scriptures...which is the point, huh!

In Christ

139 posted on 05/11/2007 8:55:12 PM PDT by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6a)
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To: WileyPink
1 Thess.5:9 - I agree that this verse refers to eternity. That we will be saved from God's wrath in the judgment, not necessarily during the tribulation. God never promised us that we would not have troubles {tribulation} but you're right, that He would lead us through it.

Actually, I never thought it was about wrath in eternity at all. Now that you've brought it to my attention I see that it can mean that. I also think it references wrath during the tribulation. I don't think we will experience the wrath He brings on unbelievers. He loves us and we stand on the Rock

If you're right, the tribulation would be the ultimate test for us wouldn't it?

Yes, I believe all scripture culiminates in that final test. That is what this trip on earth is all about. Who we will follow, God or Satan.

Your friend and student........Ping

140 posted on 05/12/2007 4:14:46 AM PDT by Ping-Pong
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To: WileyPink
I read the following this morning and it goes along with what we were discussing:

Nahum 1:2. God is jealous, and the Lord revengeth; the Lord revengeth, and is furious; the Lord will take vengeance on His adversaries, and He reserveth wrath for His enemies.

7.The Lord is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and He knoweth them that trust in Him.

The "Day of Trouble" is either the Lord's Day, the millennium and/or the day He returns, at the 7th trump. Either way the key words are that "He reserveth wrath for His enemies" and "He knoweth them that trust in Him".

I love knowing that........Ping

141 posted on 05/12/2007 5:17:52 AM PDT by Ping-Pong
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To: Ping-Pong
"...and He reserveth wrath for His enemies."

Puts a whole new light on the term, "You're either with us or your with our enemy", doesn't it?

Wiley

142 posted on 05/12/2007 6:05:39 AM PDT by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6a)
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To: WileyPink

I’m disturbed that pretrib rapture promoters like to chop contexts in half. For example, they read pretrib into I Thess. 4:17 and ignore that it’s tied to the posttrib “destruction” of the wicked in I Thess. 5:3. And they read pretrib into I Cor. 15:52 and ignore that it’s tied to vs. 54 (a quote of Isa. 25:8 which all agree is Israel’s posttrib resurrection).
Lounor


143 posted on 05/13/2007 11:48:03 PM PDT by Lounor (Beware of Context Choppers !)
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To: Lounor
I've stated before that I honestly don't know THE way the end is going to happen. I do know the outcome for me. The problem is when you make a statement as you did, it sounds to me that you think that it's your way or the highway. Is that inference correct? Do you KNOW how the end is going to be? Or are you like the rest of us who do the best we can and read the Scriptures the way they are written and not put into them things that aren't really there?

How do you tie in post tribulation destruction into, 1Thessolonians 5:3; "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."?

I just don't see how you get that from that verse. I'm not saying that it doesn't I just don't see it. Please explain.

Wiley

144 posted on 05/16/2007 3:38:18 PM PDT by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6a)
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