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Man to build Catholics-only town
www.news.com.au ^ | February 27, 2006 | Tony Allen-Mills

Posted on 02/27/2006 10:26:11 AM PST by annalex

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To: Notwithstanding

God Bless you and your stand for your friend! God knows, the man has done more for the Catholic cause than most have done in each of our lifetimes.

I stand my mine as well!

(giving up FR for lent and have to get my kiddies to activities today, so if you don't see me for a while, I'm suffering in silence)


101 posted on 02/28/2006 8:24:37 AM PST by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
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Comment #102 Removed by Moderator

To: Aquinasfan

From what I've seen, Ave Maria University will not be a monastery. The students at the school go out into the community to do service, as tutors in the local schools, to witness and pray at a local abortion clinic, and helping Habitat for Humanity. There is plenty of interaction between the towns of Naples and Immokalee and the school. I imagine that will continue when the town of Ave Maria is built.


103 posted on 02/28/2006 9:13:53 AM PST by SuziQ
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To: annalex

I too hope they spread out and start trying to force everyone else to become Catholic. I honestly hope such a movement begins. I'm tired of waiting for the inevitable result and that is the honest truth.


104 posted on 02/28/2006 9:16:26 AM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: netmilsmom

Nope, I don't live in MI, I live in MA, and have not been affected by any of the elementary schools closing. Schools do close, though, when there is not enough support for them. It happens all the time. It happened at MY Catholic school in MS. When my older siblings were there, there was a high school. When I entered the 8th grade, ours was the highest grade. After a few years, it was lowered to the 6th grade. Only in the last 10 years have they brought it back up to the 8th grade, and they're considering bringing the high school back. That's because those kids who were affected by the removal of the higher grades now have kids moving into those grades and they want for their kids what they didn't have.


105 posted on 02/28/2006 9:17:22 AM PST by SuziQ
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To: bornacatholic
Ave Maria without the porn and bc devices/products is what America used to be like.

Yes, and it wasn't Catholic in many places and was very upright and moral, unlike the Northeast and Louisiana.

106 posted on 02/28/2006 9:18:26 AM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: Aquinasfan

But if people want to enter the monastic life, they can. The Vatican wasn't built on an island in the South Pacific. It's smack dab in the middle of Western Civilization, and gave Western Civilization countless accomplishments in science and the arts and literature and architecture in addition to theology. It's in the world not of the world.

If anything, families need to strengthen the parishes where they live and become a become a beacon of light to people living across the street. Isolation tends to reduce one's relevance, not increase it. e.g., the Amish.

I understand what they are aiming for, but there's a fine line between following God's law with zeal and following God's law at the expense of neglecting your neighbor's salvation. The Pharisees were prime examples of people who isolated themselves and followed the law to the letter, but ignored their un-schooled flock. My head says, "yeah, awesome idea!" but my heart is saying, "no, these people are casting judgment on those who don't share our faith, and instead of helping them, are hiding from them."

Put it this way: The whole movement of "rapture" adherents is based in the notion that they are of a superior holiness to everyone else, and the because of that, they are separate and therefore worthy of being spared the suffering of chastisement. In fact, you and I are pretty much worthless (and condemnable!) to them unless we agree with their beliefs. They're an isolated group, albeit one with some firepower in the "Left Behind" saga. We, as Catholics, believe this is a ridiculous notion - that NO ONE gets a free pass - that my sins alone were enough to crucify Jesus. It seems a bit arrogant to assume that Ave Maria, Florida would automatically be holier than, say, Orlando. Last I checked, everyone sins. And if someone wants to buy condoms, they can order them on the Internet and continue to sin in spite of whatever rules such a community wants to institute.

So, this notion of building a Utopian-Catholic community is laudable in its goal of creating a community that has policies which oppose sin, but Jesus, Himself, said that He would leave the 99 obedient sheep to go and find the 1 one who strayed. This idea sounds a lot like taking the 99 sheep and leaving the one behind.

Every individual makes choices. Regardless of the temptations, it's within everyone's power to lead a holy life. And with (presumably) a Catholic parish in most communities, there is an eternal, supernatural source of strength and wisdom to guide people on the right path. We have a responsibility to bear fruit where God has placed us in this life. It would be irresponsible to pull up stakes and abandon the fight (and those we are called to evangelize) because Walgreens sells condoms.

Just my .02 (okay, maybe it was .03)


107 posted on 02/28/2006 9:21:15 AM PST by Rutles4Ever
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To: bornacatholic
Ave Maria without the porn and bc devices/products is what America used to be like

What's going to stop someone from looking at porn on the Internet or getting a mail-order prescription to Playboy?

Isn't the community equally desecrated by those actions?

108 posted on 02/28/2006 9:23:19 AM PST by Rutles4Ever
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To: Hermann the Cherusker; HarleyD

I do not think the success, such as it is, of the Amish is very relevant to the eventual fate of Ave Maria. That is because the state (I use the word in its socio-political rather that uniquely American form-of-government sense) is not threatened by the Amish in the way it is threatened by Ave Maria. Or even if it is really threatened by the Amish as well, it does not perceive the threat. That is because we won't see America en masse abandoning electricity, modern dentistry, and such. But we may very well see America adopting local law consistent with the Divine Law, and if it does, these communities will prosper not only in the spiritual sense but also in the modern economic sense. And that would mean the end of the state's client classes, state skulz, state-protected pornographers, and state-protected abortionists. I think, all the guns will be out for this town faster than you can say "Ave Maria". Or "Waco".


109 posted on 02/28/2006 11:28:04 AM PST by annalex
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To: Aquinasfan
There is a place for monasteries within Christianity

I agree, but Ave Maria is not conceived as a monastery, is it? It is supposed to be a regular town with lay people in worldy economic pursuits. The only thing that will be absent is legal protections our government erected for sin.

110 posted on 02/28/2006 11:31:49 AM PST by annalex
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin
force everyone else to become Catholic

Other than in the misleading title, where do you see that? No one will be forced to live there. It is a new town.

111 posted on 02/28/2006 11:35:20 AM PST by annalex
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To: Rutles4Ever

Your argument makes sense. But my belief is that our society is now so debased that there is a place for communities like this which will facilitate the raising of well-formed Catholic children.


112 posted on 02/28/2006 11:42:34 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: sandyeggo; Aquinasfan
the town in The Truman Show

I visited Seaside, Florida on business at the time that movie was filmed there. They did not have hardly any props, and the actual town was readily recognizable in the movie. It is a nice town and it has character, don't know about soul. It has existed for a few decades. The vision was purely architectural: small lots, plenty of walking/biking space, community buildings, that kind of thing. This creates an environment where people bump into each other, making for a lively public space, uncommon in America. I haven't been to Celebration, but I would not describe Seaside as creepy. The movie, of course, introduced the creepiness in spades.

113 posted on 02/28/2006 11:43:21 AM PST by annalex
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To: SuziQ
From what I've seen, Ave Maria University will not be a monastery. The students at the school go out into the community to do service, as tutors in the local schools, to witness and pray at a local abortion clinic, and helping Habitat for Humanity. There is plenty of interaction between the towns of Naples and Immokalee and the school. I imagine that will continue when the town of Ave Maria is built.

Sounds good. I just used the monastery as a loose analogy for what Tom is doing.

114 posted on 02/28/2006 11:49:23 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: annalex; sandyeggo
I haven't been to Celebration, but I would not describe Seaside as creepy.

Celebration is creepy 8-) from its faux olde water tower at the entrance, to the three shades of off-white houses, to the seemingly endless grid of streets and canals. It's worth seeing.

115 posted on 02/28/2006 11:53:37 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan

I'm confident the kids will be well educated. Our daughter got her application materials completed and mailed last Thursday, so now we're just gonna have to wait and see.


116 posted on 02/28/2006 12:03:22 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: annalex; Hermann the Cherusker
That reminds me; wasn't there a religious group wanting a bunch of people to move to South Carolina in order for it to secede from the Union?

BTW-I haven't had much time to research the Amish perspective. Most sites seem to indicate everything is find. It just that it seems in the back of my mind a few years ago I read about problems. I'm not sure.

117 posted on 02/28/2006 12:43:56 PM PST by HarleyD ("Man's steps are ordained by the Lord, How then can man understand his way?" Prov 20:24)
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To: HarleyD

I don't remember a religious group. But ideas of secession, cultural or otherwise, are not uncommon.

There is a lot of thinking about making the South (sans Florida, it seems) a conservative stronghold. I vaguely recall someone, I believe by the name Michael Pierce calling us all under the flag of St. Andrew.

Walt Williams suggested Texiana to be formed from Texas and Louisiana.

There is a movement consisting of libertarians to resettle in one state, and move it in a libertarian direction. They are called Free State Project and they chose New Hampshire.

Problem is, most ideas of self-government come from libertarians, but they do not have a clear concept of moral law. How many Christian conservatives would like minimal taxation and no public schools if the community also legalizes drugs, gambling and prostitution, and won't do anything about abortion or gay "marriage"? How many libertarians would stomach localy enforced prohibitions on vice, adultery, or Sunday shopping? The two worldviews do not seem at all compatible.


118 posted on 02/28/2006 1:10:08 PM PST by annalex
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Comment #119 Removed by Moderator

Comment #120 Removed by Moderator

To: annalex

I have predicted this, that our "freedoms" combined with our licentiousness will lead to more and more communities, or even states, "gated" in one way or another.


121 posted on 02/28/2006 2:21:16 PM PST by firebrand
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To: firebrand

You sound like you disapprove. I don't think it is bad. It is certainly the American Way, no? You cannot have political freedom unless you have robust local self-government.


122 posted on 02/28/2006 2:25:56 PM PST by annalex
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To: annalex

I don't disapprove.


123 posted on 02/28/2006 2:26:53 PM PST by firebrand
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To: Hermann the Cherusker

True. But the reaction indicates how far and deep the corruption is - and one can't blame that on Vatican Two. Think of it, the America I was born into is now illegal


124 posted on 02/28/2006 2:41:26 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin
I too hope they spread out and start trying to force everyone else to become Catholic.

*Monaghan can't do that. That will be done by the SCOTUS which we Catholic own. If'n'ya don't know the Rosary, if'n'ya ain't never been to Confession, if'n'ya think the Eucharist is symbolic, think about moving to Sweden...

125 posted on 02/28/2006 2:45:25 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: LWalk18

I think as former Marines go, being one myself, this multi-milionaire has some sound ideas, but!

Reality bites us all sooner or later.

And with all those disposible funds, "somebody" is going to get greedy. More than likely the "somebody" may well be from within. In fact, as some folks put it, greed was what got Judas all fired up in the first place. And he, too, was an insider.

Still, I wish him and his luck!

Dennis


126 posted on 02/28/2006 3:14:57 PM PST by Dennis Paul Morony (Semper Fi!)
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To: bornacatholic
*Monaghan can't do that. That will be done by the SCOTUS which we Catholic own. If'n'ya don't know the Rosary, if'n'ya ain't never been to Confession, if'n'ya think the Eucharist is symbolic, think about moving to Sweden...

Hmmmmmm....

127 posted on 02/28/2006 3:21:17 PM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: HarleyD

Gays are not a protected class in Florida. Only Palm Beach, Broward, Miami-Dade, and Orange counties prohibit discrimination on sexual orientation.


128 posted on 02/28/2006 4:04:40 PM PST by Clemenza (I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked...)
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To: annalex

btt


129 posted on 02/28/2006 7:51:30 PM PST by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: Publius6961

"Why do I fear that we ordinary Catholic mortals will never be able to afford living there?"

This ordinary catholic has no desire to live on the western edge of the Everglades with the alligators and growing population of Burmese Pythons.


130 posted on 02/28/2006 9:03:55 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: MattinNJ
I think a bunch of constitutionalists & evangelicals are doing the same in South Carolina
131 posted on 02/28/2006 9:45:27 PM PST by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Since I'm a 30 year old Yank, THAT America you're speaking of is left only for my imagination. However, I can recall a few whisps of what it would have been like from my childhood with my grandparents and other close relatives from that generation. And from my hometown church. For this I was a lucky kid.

I'm rather resentful that "THAT America" is lost forever. I blame alot of people for it too -- For forcing me to ride this stinking shit train with the rest of my generation.

132 posted on 02/28/2006 10:01:45 PM PST by right-wingin_It
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To: SuziQ

He was fired from the board for not going along with the suggested move of the Law school to Florida.

Watch and see, the Law School will be in FL.


133 posted on 02/28/2006 10:04:58 PM PST by It's me
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To: SuziQ

So, you don't believe any of the "stories" from the "disgruntled former employees?"

I found it odd that the stories were so similar and from so many different people. There must be some truth to these stories.


134 posted on 02/28/2006 10:07:16 PM PST by It's me
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To: Aquinasfan
Unrelated but one might recall Disney's "Celebration" experience-a model town which was suppose to reflect a great lifestyle.
Interesting. I drove through it when I visited Disney World, and thought it was the creepiest place on earth. Well organized and laid out, but souless.

My family and I drove through there too when we visited Disney World. We had no idea that it was associated with Disney, but we also thought it was very creepy. Row upon row of pristine houses with hardly a living person around. It was like in that old episode of The Twilight Zone when giant aliens kidnapped a man and woman and planted them in a fake town.

135 posted on 02/28/2006 10:12:41 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: SuziQ
Ave Maria University is the entity that began as Ave Maria College,

I know that. It is a bit obvious, I think.

Isn't it a bit odd how the University "took" the accreditation from the college in MI and transfered it to the university in FL. They did this so the new students couild get federal funded student loans. When the feds found out, Monaghan had to pay the feds back about $500,000 in student loans.

I really like that Tom Monaghan has begun a university that is orthodox Catholic. I only wish he'd be careful how he goes about it. It really gives fuel to those who do not like the orthodox Catholic position.

136 posted on 02/28/2006 10:13:01 PM PST by It's me
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To: It's me; Notwithstanding
I'd read that the story about the federal funding is wrong; apparently there was a mistake made at Ave Maria College in MI, NOT AMU in FL. Again, you seem to be reading the same source, which is apparently putting out incorrect information. Either way, it is straightened out now because all AMU's students are allowed to apply for Federal Student loans.

Notwithstanding gave a good account of what was going on at Ave Maria Law because HE WAS THERE! The Law School might end up in FL, I don't know. Right now, they have the use of a Law Library at another school in the area. Until they amass their own volumes, I doubt they'll give up that unique opportunity for their students.

Ave Maria Univ. had to get it's own accreditation, and right now is under pre-accreditation from an agency for Liberal Arts Universities. Apparently, the lack of full accreditation has not been a problem for its graduates. All of them either got jobs, or were accepted into the Graduate programs they wanted. One of last year's graduates is working for my b-i-l, who is the Pastor of a parish in MS.

137 posted on 02/28/2006 10:41:52 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: SuziQ

Actually, while we do have the benefit of using the UofM law library in the same town, Ave has its own excellent library - with the number of volumes, etc, being more than adequate for it to be accredited.


138 posted on 02/28/2006 11:05:51 PM PST by Notwithstanding (I love my German shepherd - Benedict XVI reigns!)
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To: Notwithstanding

That's great about the Law Library. I was just remembering that when the school got started y'all were using the other school's resources.


139 posted on 02/28/2006 11:35:00 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: DouglasKC
It was like in that old episode of The Twilight Zone when giant aliens kidnapped a man and woman and planted them in a fake town.

That's exactly what it was like.

140 posted on 03/01/2006 4:49:31 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: right-wingin_It
I'm rather resentful that "THAT America" is lost forever. I blame alot of people for it too -- For forcing me to ride this stinking shit train with the rest of my generation.

Make that resentment a burning fire within that fuels you to change it back.

141 posted on 03/01/2006 5:37:27 AM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Perhaps you missed my point. It is the same one you went on to elaborate upon.
142 posted on 03/01/2006 7:52:09 PM PST by Barnacle (Harriet ’08... She’s just fab!)
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To: Cap'n Crunch

Pizza Gazillionaire ping list......:o)

No nooze from indian country yet...still waiting for info for ya !

Stay safe !


143 posted on 03/01/2006 7:54:48 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: Squantos

Wonder if he wants to buy another shop.. hahaha. Amazing how the place grew though, and his brother sold his half back for a Volkswagen??? wow.

God Bless America...

Awaiting smoke signals. Best wishes.


144 posted on 03/02/2006 12:28:33 PM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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