Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

New York Archdiocese Sets Biggest Closing in Its 150 Years
NYT ^ | March 29, 2006 | Michael Luo

Posted on 03/29/2006 6:04:17 AM PST by NYer

The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York announced plans yesterday for the most sweeping reorganization in its history of more than 150 years, recommending the closing of 31 parishes and 14 schools throughout the metropolitan region.

At the same time, the archdiocese recommended creating five new parishes in Staten Island, Orange County and Dutchess County and constructing several new church buildings, mostly in northern Westchester County, Rockland County and Dutchess County, where many Catholics who have left the city have relocated.

The closings would hit the archdiocese the hardest in its southern parts — the Bronx, Staten Island, Manhattan, Yonkers and central Westchester. The Bronx and Manhattan alone accounted for 17 of the 31 parishes that are to be closed.

The announcement had long been expected. For more than two years, archdiocesan officials have been studying how to deal with a growing shortage of priests, coupled with the changing demographics of the archdiocese, which in its entirety stretches from Staten Island in the south to the Catskills in the north. Some churches in the northern suburbs have been bulging at the seams, while others in the city have struggled to get by, often requiring large financial subsidies from the archdiocese.

"A lot of these are just no-brainers," said Msgr. John J. Jenik, pastor of Our Lady of Refuge in the Bronx and a member of a panel of lay leaders and priests convened by the archdiocese that recently reviewed the reorganization plans. "When you've got diminishing numbers of priests, large cash investments in places, dwindling numbers and economies of scale, it's not wise stewardship."

Each of the parishes and schools on the list of closings will have the chance to discuss their situations with archdiocesan officials.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Activism; Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; History; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: archdiocese; bronx; cardinal; catholic; church; churchclosings; eagan; manhattan; ny; nyc; oconnor; rockland; statenisland
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-57 next last

1 posted on 03/29/2006 6:04:19 AM PST by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...


2 posted on 03/29/2006 6:05:13 AM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Each of the parishes and schools on the list of closings will have the chance to discuss their situations with archdiocesan officials.

And the conversation goes like this:

Parish official: "But, Bishop, our families need this church, this school. It's been the center of our lives for over 100 years!"

Bishop: "Here's a map to the new church and school. Oh, by the way, tuition will have to go up 25% to pay for all the new buildings. Good day!"

3 posted on 03/29/2006 6:09:26 AM PST by blu (People, for God's sake, think for yourselves!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: blu

LOL! That is exactly what I was thinking!


4 posted on 03/29/2006 6:19:08 AM PST by samiam1972 (Live simply so that others may simply live!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: blu
tuition will have to go up 25% to pay for all the new buildings.

Lol ... only 25% ;-)

We've been through the 'purge' up here in Albany and it's not over yet. In one town, 5 of the 6 RC Churches were closed and the entire community combined into one. In their haste to shut these church doors, the diocesan team did not scrutinize the remaining church very well. Only now have they begun to realize that it will cost a ton of money to maintain that one church. Soooooo .... they will probably move the entire congregation into another of the closed churches and shut down this one. Meanwhile, the bishop went down to New Orleans to bring relief to the Katrina victims and lament the sad state of affairs down there. Is it any wonder catholics feel driven from their churches?

5 posted on 03/29/2006 6:22:33 AM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

The announcement had long been expected. For more than two years, archdiocesan officials have been studying how to deal with a growing shortage of priests, coupled with the changing demographics of the archdiocese, which in its entirety stretches from Staten Island in the south to the Catskills in the north. Some churches in the northern suburbs have been bulging at the seams, while others in the city have struggled to get by, often requiring large financial subsidies from the archdiocese.

You can't argue with changing demographics. Still, this is a sad commentary on the state of affairs in NY (and elsewhere).

6 posted on 03/29/2006 6:59:24 AM PST by Alex Murphy (Colossians 4:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

When they did the reorganization here they grabbed a bunch of rich donors from the "burbs" and Diocesan yes men (and women of course) to do the job. Some didn't even live in the Diocese, including one Cabinet Secretary who saw it as "get even" time with some of the Priests who weren't cooperative about raising money.

In other cases you had the Vicar Forane unilaterally switch the Parish which had been recommended for closing without telling anyone before forwarding the report to the Diocese.

For proof of the major league probems just look at the number of reversals...I think initially there were supposed to be something like 20-30 more.

Let's hope that they do a better job in New York.


7 posted on 03/29/2006 7:11:03 AM PST by Cheverus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Every time a bishop has to do this, he should wear sack-cloth and ashes for a year afterwards as a sign of his abject failure to increase the flock. If he has to do it more than once in his tenure as bishop, he should be forced to resign in disgrace.


8 posted on 03/29/2006 7:13:23 AM PST by Antoninus (The only reason you're alive today is because your parents were pro-life.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

The Schools are in the center of the bullseye, the Archdiocese is picking them off one at a time.

In Somerville they closed one school that was financially solvent at a Parish with no debt then made the Parish take out a huge loan to pay the closing costs. I bet when one of the big donors turns it into 10-20 400k condos (market for that area) there won't be any sort of kickback to the Parish....heck if they throw out the pastoral activities out of the old convent they could build like 50 condos...all with parking, which is at a premium in that area.

A sidebar, the attendance at the parish has plummetted following the closing of the school too.


9 posted on 03/29/2006 7:16:19 AM PST by Cheverus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: blu

Parishioner: "It's been the center of our lives, but you would not know it by our actions."


10 posted on 03/29/2006 7:17:08 AM PST by Notwithstanding (I love my German shepherd - Benedict XVI reigns!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus
Every time a bishop has to do this, he should wear sack-cloth and ashes for a year afterwards as a sign of his abject failure to increase the flock. If he has to do it more than once in his tenure as bishop, he should be forced to resign in disgrace.

What have the people been doing to increase the flock of Christ? The Bishop is but one man. The people are many millions.

11 posted on 03/29/2006 7:24:55 AM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Sad -- NY City is where the catechesis, churches and schools are needed most.


12 posted on 03/29/2006 7:25:18 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
What have the people been doing to increase the flock of Christ? The Bishop is but one man. The people are many millions.

Hermann, I agree with you. Here's the thing: ALL of the growth within the Church in the past 20 years has been coming from lay-run and other apostolates which operate quasi-autonomously from the bishops. EWTN is the shining example. And a subset of bishops have tried to kill that work many times over.

About 70% of our American bishops have been abject failures in their primary missions--to evangelize, bring more people to the Church, and properly educate those already here. I can't tell you how much it pains me to say that.

Pray that the Almighty sends us worthy shepherds.
13 posted on 03/29/2006 7:30:57 AM PST by Antoninus (The only reason you're alive today is because your parents were pro-life.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus; Cheverus
Every time a bishop has to do this, he should wear sack-cloth and ashes for a year afterwards as a sign of his abject failure to increase the flock. If he has to do it more than once in his tenure as bishop, he should be forced to resign in disgrace.

One of the more troubling aspects of these closings is disposition of liturgical vessels, vestments and sacramentals. Many of these churches are filled with beautiful, old windows, pews, confessionals, tabernacles, candlesticks, chalices, et al. When my pastor began looking to purchase a larger church to accomodate his growing congregation, he approached the RC diocese. They turned him down. After acquiring a 150 y/o Methodist/Episcopal Church, he returned to the diocese seeking furnishings from the closed parishes. Again, he was turned down.

This is most disheartening. On one occasion, he was told to come to a particular church on a specific date, only to find wreckers ripping out pews. He had no means to transport them to our new church.

14 posted on 03/29/2006 7:44:38 AM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: NYer

While I sympathize with people whose parishes are going to be closed, it does not make sense to keep parishes open that do not have enough members to keep them going. Diocese in almost every major city in the U.S. are facing the same demographic issue: Catholics are moving out of cities and into the suburbs. In the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, most Catholics lived in cities. Often, each ethnic group would have its own parish, so it was quite common to have a church on almost every street corner. However, the situation has now changed. The ethnic groups that built these parishes have moved out of the cities, and non-Catholics have moved into these areas. City parishes that used to be thriving are now almost empty.

It is sad but it doesn't look like the Archdiocese of New York has much choice.


15 posted on 03/29/2006 7:54:34 AM PST by steadfastconservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1605408/posts

I just posted this, one of the few good things to come out of the mess. I was familiar with the old Parish these things came from. It was an old Italian Parish turned into a Hispanic Personal Parish, that was slated to close long before the official reconfiguration.

If the local Latin Rite Bishop refused to sell the Church I'm not suprised (you have Hubbard right?) though that is not always the case.

This Melkite Parish is now located in a former Latin Rite Church:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4ndg9/index.htm

(they got their Pastor from the Latin Rite too!!!)


16 posted on 03/29/2006 7:56:01 AM PST by Cheverus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Oops, almost forgot, Bishop Muldoon, OFM, a Bishop in Honduras who's a Mass Native got truckloads of stuff to build Churches.

As a sidebar, Muldoon is a very interesting man, he stopped wearing his Franciscan Habit because he felt it made him stand out too much since he was the only one around, he felt it more humble and true to his Franciscan vows to scarifice the habit he loved so much and dress like every other Priest.

It really pained him to do it.


17 posted on 03/29/2006 7:59:52 AM PST by Cheverus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: NYer

In the case of Albany, it's probably because Bishop Hubbard rightly views the Maronites as competitors, not co-religionists. Bishop Hubbard is in the destruction business.


18 posted on 03/29/2006 8:04:13 AM PST by Antoninus (The only reason you're alive today is because your parents were pro-life.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: steadfastconservative

Don't forget the lack of children.

I don't think anyone argues the necessity of these moves, I think people worry given the errors made in some other Diocese (anyone on here from Cleveland? I've heard stories).

I know in the area my sister lives in in MD, the Churches are bulging at the seems...with many transplants from the Northeast, so I know what you mean. Too bad we can't pick them up and move them to where they're needed.


19 posted on 03/29/2006 8:04:43 AM PST by Cheverus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Cheverus; Antoninus
Thanks for those link! Now this is as it should be - notice everyone is smiling in the diocesan press release. Wonder how much they paid for the church. It's also interesting to see they are sufficiently funded to proceed with renovation of the former church. (Nice iconostasis under construction!).

We've had to go the fundraising route ... quite slow. Last year, after filing a gazillion papers, we were able to have the future church recognized as a national landmark, thus qualifying us to apply for matching state grants. This too is quite tedious and slow but, with God's help, we'll get the needed monies. Of course the major difference between Our Lady of the Cedars and us is that they are moving into a catholic church. We have to totally renovate the interior to create a sanctuary and install confessionals. We also have to replace the 150 year old roof and fix the stained glass windows ... those that are still intact. The console from the pipe organ has to be moved from its present position and the organ itself restored. We'll get there ... it just won't be tomorrow.

Again, thanks for the links!

20 posted on 03/29/2006 8:21:20 AM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: steadfastconservative
I recall a comment in TIME when Paul VI visited New York. the reporter looked at the crowds, which were often more curious than enthusiastic and commented that it showed that Manhattan was no longer a Catholic island.
21 posted on 03/29/2006 8:57:05 AM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: NYer; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...
I have yet to hear or read a sermon, read an op-ed, read a letter to the editor about the subject of vouchers or tuition tax credits from any bishop, priest, or religious clergy. I've also read very little about abortion and nothing about the IVF procedure.

Yet, I continually read from the USCCB, bishops, priests, religious clergy about liberal UN initiatives, supporting the UN, the school of the Americas, illegal immigration, the homeless and other very-liberal and social-justice causes.

They've advocated for every social program in the world which needed to be paid by the taxpayers, the middle class, those who normally would send their children to Catholic schools if they had some disposable income left over.

They reap what the sow.
22 posted on 03/29/2006 10:27:23 AM PST by Coleus (STOPP Planned Parenthood http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/892053/posts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Coleus

Valid points, I think an arguement could also be made that the financial aspect goes much deeper.

In many cases around the Boston area when an Archdiocesan run school has closed an independent Catholic School has popped up in it's place.

There is actually a nationwide network of Independent Catholic Schools that do group fundraising.

You should also not discount "hokie" Liturgies driving people away as well....sure they were luke warm to begin with but at least they added to the Sacramental index.

Oh, BTW, I perused your about page: There is actually a Parish named for St. Gabriel Possenti in the Brighton Section of Boston. The plant is owned by St. Elizabeth's Hospital and it's staffed by Redemptorists.


23 posted on 03/29/2006 10:42:28 AM PST by Cheverus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Cheverus
Not to mention the Catholic homeschooling movement.
24 posted on 03/29/2006 11:05:15 AM PST by Antoninus (The only reason you're alive today is because your parents were pro-life.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus

Um, and the "Truth about Touching" in Diocesan schools program which has increased homeschooling.


25 posted on 03/29/2006 11:11:16 AM PST by Cheverus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Cheverus
Um, and the "Truth about Touching" in Diocesan schools program which has increased homeschooling.

And will continue to do so. I've got 4 little ones under age 4 who will NEVER experience one of these programs.
26 posted on 03/29/2006 11:13:39 AM PST by Antoninus (The only reason you're alive today is because your parents were pro-life.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: NYer
My old parish (St Anthony's in downtown NY W Houston/Sullivan) stopped doing its annual street festival a few years back and at that point I knew it was the end. A couple of years later they closed my old grammar school (on McDougal).

I was pleased to not see St Anthony's on the list of church closings or mergers, but it's got to just be a matter of time at this point.

A shame.
27 posted on 03/29/2006 11:15:32 AM PST by HitmanLV (Some people like to dash it out, but they just can't take it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer; Coleus
About time. Manhattan is filled with Churches now surrounded by secular yuppies.

Build Churches where your coreligionists actually live.

28 posted on 03/29/2006 11:47:00 AM PST by Clemenza (I Just Wasn't Made for These Times)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blu
1. If you still live in the same crappy neighborhood after 100 years, uh, no comment.

2. Most of these Churches were built for immigrant communities that no longer exist, and now sit on some very valuable real estate in Manhattan. The Archdiocese is doing the right thing.

29 posted on 03/29/2006 11:48:34 AM PST by Clemenza (I Just Wasn't Made for These Times)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus; NYer
"...a sign of his abject failure to increase the flock."

I cannot possibly understand everything of why things happen the way they do. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even St Paul had trouble entering the hearts of certain communities (and spoke about being mysteriously blocked by certain forces, possibly diabolic?, from entering a territory).

People in certain areas of the world have blocked the Eucharist and others have, with hostility, turned against it. Sometimes the resistance comes from the clergy (like in Jerusalem when Jesus was actually in their presence), sometimes it comes from laity (like a crowned king of Europe wanting to divorce his wives). When resistance and insult become too much, history shows what happens to a people who reject God.

There will be an underground Faith. If that Faith is dear enough in God's eyes, then angels will come to warn the faithful to flee the city before Justice arrives.

Of course, a city, people, nation and/or individual can repent, and God Mercy will forgive and forget all of their injustices.

The New York Archdiocese has the opportunity to better serve the Catholic community by relocating its main effort and mission. This doesn't mean that the Church has abandoned the city. I suppose it's similar to the statement that for those who have (Faith), more (Grace) will be given; and to those who have not (Faith), what little they had (belief) will be taken away. Of course, the heart that seeks the Sacraments will always find Jesus--He promised it so.

Plus, the Church should make a killing in real estate sales...and before the local or state government persecutes Catholics with draconian unfair taxes/fines and sinful unjust laws (example Oregon trying to sue Catholics for a priest's bad behavior, or liberals trying to force Catholic adoption agencies to slave trade children to homosexual activism).

Sometimes an Apostolic missionary must beat the dust from his sandals and clothes as he leaves a town full of hard hearts. In this present case, it seems to be only in degrees...so hopefully this big move will be seen as the wake call that locals need. They can either fill the pews, move to where the "Food" is, or stay where they want.
30 posted on 03/29/2006 11:50:59 AM PST by SaltyJoe (A mother's sorrowful heart and personal sacrifice redeems her lost child's soul.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: HitmanLV

St. Anthony's aka that big building near Arturo's. ;-)


31 posted on 03/29/2006 11:53:09 AM PST by Clemenza (I Just Wasn't Made for These Times)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Clemenza

About a block away, yes. :-)


32 posted on 03/29/2006 11:55:07 AM PST by HitmanLV (Some people like to dash it out, but they just can't take it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Clemenza
Ah, yes, the real estate value. Now, seriously, do you think the parishes will see any $$ from those sales? Hardly. But, maybe the archdiocese can use the money to settle some lawsuits (sorry, I'm not up on that area's abuse cases).

The church is the people. It's not the bishop or the archbishop. If these parishes can find a way to subsist then they should be allowed to remain open.
33 posted on 03/29/2006 12:06:44 PM PST by blu (People, for God's sake, think for yourselves!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus

Did you have 2 sets of twins:)


34 posted on 03/29/2006 1:52:19 PM PST by fatima (Just say it if it is for love-have no regrets.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: NYer

With any review like this there will always be a few mistakes, which I hope they correct. But I think this basically makes sense.

There are many reasons for the closings. The priest shortage is mentioned. But several other factors are probably more important. One is the disappearance of the old ethnic neighborhoods. Little Italy has gotten smaller. Little Germany has virtually disappeared. There are more blacks and fewer Catholic ethnics. Most of the Irish and Italians have moved to the suburbs.

A lot of young blacks like the kid in the picture have profited from going to Catholic parochial schools. But they are not Catholic themselves, and somebody has to pay for these schools. The NY state teachers unions have been especially vehement against any kind of voucher system, and the liberal judges have frequently shot them down. Same with the hospitals. Catholic schools and hospitals are serving mainly non-Catholics, and that can't continue unless somebody is willing to pay for it.

There are plenty of thriving Catholic churches in NYC. I attended Our Lady of Victories church down on Wall Street, and it was great. But other churches are nearly empty and simply don't support themselves--maintenance, heating bills, and all the rest of it.


35 posted on 03/29/2006 3:32:48 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cicero; RKBA Democrat; redhead
Thank you for the excellent analysis of the situation. We in NY are not alone. Check out the other thread on Maida and Michigan. There has definitely been a shift in this country. Catholics have relocated to parts where no Catholic Churches existed and they have drawn on their heritage to erect new churches, oftentimes in the deep south.

As you pointed out, the first catholic settlers lived in 'ethnic' neighborhoods and built their churches to resemble those they left behind. It is not unusual in the northeast, to find several catholic churches within blocks of each other, simply because one was built by the Irish, another by the Italians and yet another by the Poles.

This is also true in the Eastern Churches where their 'ethnic' neighborhoods have also disbanded, though not to the extent of their Latin counterparts. The ongoing persecution of christians in the Near East ensures a constant flow of eastern christians to the west. Here they seek comfort and solace in 'their' catholic churches, to which RCs are also being drawn for the beauty and reverence of their liturgies.

As my pastor recently commented: The Eastern Churches are the same faith, just a different flavor.

36 posted on 03/29/2006 4:35:18 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
Lets not forget that the majority of white folks in Manhattan don't attend Church, or even religious services of any kind. Yorkville (Little Germany) and the Mulberry Corridor (Little Italy) are expensive places to live these days, and tend to attract the secular and non-ethnic.

Interesting statistic is that the largest concentration of Italian immigrants (aka REAL Italians) in New York is on the Upper East Side. These tend to be wealthy folks in the arts and finance, many of whom are part of the jet set.

37 posted on 03/29/2006 5:14:22 PM PST by Clemenza (I Just Wasn't Made for These Times)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Coleus
...They've advocated for every social program in the world which needed to be paid by the taxpayers, the middle class, those who normally would send their children to Catholic schools if they had some disposable income left over...

Excellent point. Right-On

38 posted on 03/29/2006 6:19:46 PM PST by right-wingin_It
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Clemenza
I hope all these churches are gutted before they are sold, if they aren't going to christian community.

If sacramentals have to be disposed of properly, shouldn't the church be stripped before, some dude gets his hands on it and wants to turn it into some gothic looking bar or what have you?

39 posted on 03/29/2006 6:23:33 PM PST by right-wingin_It
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: right-wingin_It

Hey, the Limelight, which was converted from an Episcopal Church, was a pretty cool place.


40 posted on 03/29/2006 6:27:16 PM PST by Clemenza (I Just Wasn't Made for These Times)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: right-wingin_It
If sacramentals have to be disposed of properly, shouldn't the church be stripped before, some dude gets his hands on it and wants to turn it into some gothic looking bar or what have you?

...or worse yet, a Mosque.
41 posted on 03/29/2006 6:33:36 PM PST by Old_Mil (http://www.constitutionparty.org - Forging a Rebirth of Freedom.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Cheverus; NYer; redhead

I was delighted to see the beautiful new Melkite church. Down here in the south, eastern Catholic churches normally purchase their churches. Why build when there are existing churches to be purchased? Add an iconostasis and...voila!

I really do wish that the eastern Catholic churches had more of a tradition of evangelization. The western church looks at these inner city churches and older parishes as a liability. An eastern Catholic church would look at that same parish and church wish it had something that nice.


42 posted on 03/29/2006 6:44:05 PM PST by RKBA Democrat (Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus; Hermann the Cherusker

"Here's the thing: ALL of the growth within the Church in the past 20 years has been coming from lay-run and other apostolates which operate quasi-autonomously from the bishops."

Links, gentlemen, links please. Who is doing a good job and how are they doing it?


43 posted on 03/29/2006 6:48:33 PM PST by RKBA Democrat (Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Funny...the Catholic schools here in San Antonio are expanding rapidly, have waiting lists and are bursting at the seams despite our quick expansion.

The media is searching for a crisis in the world's favorite target...the Catholic Church.


44 posted on 03/29/2006 6:57:45 PM PST by AlaninSA (It's one nation under God -- brought to you by the Knights of Columbus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Coleus; NYer

"I have yet to hear or read a sermon, read an op-ed, read a letter to the editor about the subject of vouchers or tuition tax credits from any bishop, priest, or religious clergy. I've also read very little about abortion and nothing about the IVF procedure."

Hmmm. You've just given me an idea.

It's ironic that the eastern churches are almost invisible given that they would be the most likely to speak with a strong voice on issues such as sin, IVF, and abortion.

Nyer....are you thinking what I'm thinking?


45 posted on 03/29/2006 6:57:49 PM PST by RKBA Democrat (Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: RKBA Democrat
I really do wish that the eastern Catholic churches had more of a tradition of evangelization. The western church looks at these inner city churches and older parishes as a liability. An eastern Catholic church would look at that same parish and church wish it had something that nice.

I would love to see a diocese do something radical like deed over some unused Churches to the Ethiopian Copts to evangelize among the Africans. Its hard to see how "original African Christianity" wouldn't be a big success in this country if it was promoted.

46 posted on 03/29/2006 7:59:48 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker

"I would love to see a diocese do something radical like deed over some unused Churches to the Ethiopian Copts to evangelize among the Africans."

As would I. But why stop there? We've got a bunch of Chaldeans coming to the U.S. and they could sure use church facilities. Other Eastern Catholic churches or even semi-independent Catholic organizations that actually evangelize could use the facilties.

Sad to say, I think many western Diocese would rather see the the buildings bulldozed.


47 posted on 03/29/2006 8:35:15 PM PST by RKBA Democrat (Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: RKBA Democrat; Coleus; AlaninSA
I have yet to hear or read a sermon, read an op-ed, read a letter to the editor about the subject of vouchers or tuition tax credits from any bishop, priest, or religious clergy.

I attended the K of C, 'Bishop's Burse' dinner last weekend. At the conclusion, Bishop Hubbard delivered a rather lengthy 'thank you' in which he encouraged the Knights to march on the State Capitol in support of tuition tax credits, as well as other issues.

Nyer....are you thinking what I'm thinking?

Can you give me a hint?

48 posted on 03/29/2006 11:20:21 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: NYer

In Louisville, many churches and schools have closed in the last 20 years. Usually if a school had less than 75 famlies and or the parsish less than 150 active families it was on the block.

Demographics changed and left many of our African American families with fewer churches and haveing to drive further to go to schools due to smaller numbers.

Always a shame, but if people move around, ya gotta follow them.


49 posted on 03/29/2006 11:39:00 PM PST by truemiester (If the U.S. should fail, a veil of darkness will come over the Earth for a thousand years)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: NYer

"Can you give me a hint?"

Nature abhors a vacuum.

If our western bretheren are not taking the lead on issues of concern to the faith, then there is nothing to prevent eastern clergy from doing so.

I think we need to stop thinking of our Priests in the same way that has evolved in the western church. Namely, as a sort of Eucharistic technician. As a practical matter, our Priests end up with much more of a leadership role than their contemporaries in the western church. Often times, an eastern Catholic Priest is the highest ranking representative of not only their sui iuris church, but also of eastern Catholicism in a fairly large geographic area.

Our Bishops have Eparchies that stretch over entire regions of the U.S. if not the entire U.S. Not just a region of a state.

Case in point, your own Priest and Bishop. How many other eastern Catholic priests are there in a 100 square mile area? One? And your Bishop's Eparchy I think includes at least the entire eastern seaboard.


50 posted on 03/30/2006 2:49:03 AM PST by RKBA Democrat (Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-57 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson