Posted on 04/09/2006 3:45:01 PM PDT by jude24
1. Others again declare that Cain derived his being from the Power above, and acknowledge that Esau, Korah, the Sodomites, and all such persons, are related to themselves. On this account, they add, they have been assailed by the Creator, yet no one of them has suffered injury. For Sophia was in the habit of carrying off that which belonged to her from them to herself. They declare that Judas the traitor was thoroughly acquainted with these things, and that he alone, knowing the truth as no others did, accomplished the mystery of the betrayal; by him all things, both earthly and heavenly, were thus thrown into confusion. They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they style the Gospel of Judas.
(Excerpt) Read more at ccel.org ...
There were plenty heretical documents from the period Im sure - particularly with the gnostics..
Luke 1:1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.
Luke 6:16 Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.
Luke 22:1 [ Judas Agrees to Betray Jesus ] Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, called the Passover, was approaching, Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve.
Luke 22:4 And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus.
Luke 22:47 [ Jesus Arrested ] While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him,
Luke 22:48 but Jesus asked him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"
No. He was from the second generation of church leadership after the apostles. His viewpoint is important becuase it teaches what the early church thought.
It is true that the earliest Gospel (Mark) was the least anti- Judas story.
Uhh... Mark has Judas betraying Christ too.
I saw the documentary on the National Geographic Channel, and was quie impressed.
The National Geographic Channel is, as demonstrated here, sensationalistic and not exactly historically sound.
There is even talk of declaring Judas a saint.
By whom? There are two churches which declare saints - the Catholics, and the Orthodox. Neither will be swayed by a Gnostic gospel.
Judas was turning Jesus over to the Sanhedrin, hopefully to resolve the issue and abate all the controversy that Jesus' Ministry was causing for the Temple and Roman Power Elite. The Romans had taken notice and had said if the Jewish community didn't quiet this Prophet down and neutralize him, then they would.
Judas was okay with this. But when he was turned over to the custody of the Romans, he killed himself.
Isn't it interesting that one Gospel says he hanged himself and the other one says he jumped in an abyss??
This proves that there are many questions that are not answered in the original Gospels and a few contradictions as well.
No gospel says he jumped into an abyss. All say he hung himself; one (Acts I think) says he fell to the ground and eviscerated himself.
Clement & Polycarp of the 90's and low 100's AD, respectively, included huge numbers of scriptural quotations between them. The presence of those scripture citations indicate that the gospels and letters were circulating among the churches at very early times in Church history -- proof that these books were ALREADY in existence.
That puts their origin at some point significantly earlier than the lives of these men, given the nature of the reproduction of texts (scribing) in that era. The failure of any Christian text to proclaim the destruction of the Temple as a done deed argues for an early writing for all historical type documents (Gospel & Acts....also the letters to some degree.)
One might note that the early fathers did not use the so-called gospel of Judas.
One might also note that one observer commented that the entire New Testament except for 11 verses could be reconstructed just from the citations of the various books by the ante-Nicean fathers.
It is thought by many the "apparent contradiction" about Judas' death as recorded in the two Gospel accounts is easily cleared up with the theory that Judas, in hanging himself, suspended himself over the edge of a cliff of some sort, using a limb that could not support the full weight of his body. He, therefore, hanged himself and also plunged into an abyss (as you say)when the limb gave way. Far-fetched? I don't believe so. Judas expressed a deep remorse over what he had done and, in seeking to end his own life may well have wanted to be certain that nothing could go wrong (how could he ever face the other disciples--they saw him come and betray Christ with a kiss--after hearing Jesus talk repeatedly about being betrayed by one who sat down to bread with Him--No, neither the Lord, nor Judas were going to be spared that night.)
Convenient, shallow explanation? Belief says, "No." Unbelief concludes, "Absolutely!" The believer is always accused of acting on some simplistic (simple-minded?) faith in accepting the scriputes, while the skeptic is often attributed with some vastly superior intellect for doubting. The Scriptures themselves explain this, though, "No man can come to the Father except the Father draw him." The very faith that is at work in the believer involves a mind divinely opened to receive the things of the Scriptures (Paul would say, "We have the mind of Christ."--not to boast, but to explain how a believer sees things through a spiritual lens that the world would see through a material one.)
The problem with the new Judas manuscripts is that they do not line up with the Scriptures (at least not the parts of the Judas gospel I have read, anyway. Now, I must admit I have not read it through its entirety. There's a lot of supposed holy works that I have not read through--doesn't make me right, and it doesn't make me wrong, either--maybe just not as widely read as the next person.) But when I read excerpts that state things that clearly go against the consistent, prophetic, accurate Scriptures with such a clear untruth--it doesn't take much for faith to conclude where such thougths and words came from (see John 8: 43-47)
If you think the Gospel of Judas is genuine, then I've got a genuine autographed picture of Jesus I'd like to sell you. Freep mail me for the details.
Thanks, PM. I treasure the autographed Jesus picture I got from you. I know it's authentic because it's written in Hebrew. And the monogrammed fish symbol is really cool!
If nothing else, it is a good testament to the state of photography and theology in our day. :>)
The National Geographic documentary is quite objective and well produced. Urge all to check it out, or at least look at the website, where they go into greater details.
Another interesting part of the Gospels of Judas was that Jesus is portrayed laughing , sometimes at his own disciples foibles.
This seemed to make Jesus more sympathetic to me. Why don't the orgiinal gospels show Jesus ever laughing? Did he not tell jokes or humorous stories?
Actually, the gospels portray a very human Jesus.
That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the so-called 'gospel' of Judas showed up 200 years after the fact.
That means it was written by a liar pretending to be Judas.
I think I'm going to write a memo from President Bush to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. It'll be fun watching them jump to do anything I tell them to do. :>)
Jesus is portrayed throughout the Gospels expressing all the fruit of the Spirit (love, joy, peace, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance). He does so to perfection. These are what so endear Him to those that follow Him. The fact that the Scriptures nowhere record His laughing with His disciples is something that, quite frankly, disappears from the radar when you consider His purpose for coming. In the end, His followers rejoice that "The Son of God loved me and gave Himself for me," and care very little that He failed to demonstrate a divine sense of humor or laughed at one of Peter's jokes.
Objective only in they give equal weight to the opinion of a small, non Christian sect with that of the catholic church. Do understand that there is now a cottage industry of scholars like Pagel who are making a fine living in rehashing the contest between Christianity and gnosticism.
I think you miss the point. St. Irenaeus was a Second Century apologist who was instrumental in vindicating the four gospels we venerate as scripture from the original Gnostic challenges.
He based his arguments in favor of the apostolic Gospels on account of their apostolic succession. That is they were written by the apostles themselves and transmitted immediately to their successors who were out in the open, unlike the Gnostics who believed Jesus handed down secret teachings.
In the absence of the doctrine of apostolic succession, there is no objective, extrinsic way to distinguish the canonical gospels from the forgeries. Because, otherwise, how do you know the canonical gospels ought to be Mary, Peter, Philip and Judas, not Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
This is where Protestantism is at its weakest. It rejects Holy Tradition, yet it accepts the Tradition of which books are inspired. Who made the decision to declare the canonical books authentic and apostolic and the Gnostic books inauthentic and spurious?
When I realized this I decided to convert to Catholicism from the Lutheranism of my youth.
But actually it was the jews that brought him not the Romans.
They had many gods so what was one more to them?
The killed Jesus to quiet the jews and keep the peace.
Which one of you guys borrowed my copy of the original "Diaries of Mary and Martha" with the hand written preface by Lazarus in which he revealed his near death experience? As I remember it has been authenticated as an original pre-Gnostic fabrication found in an Essene cave circa 100 B.C.. Please return it.
It might have been me, but the one I have is titled "The Red Light Diary of Mary....thoughts of an early feminist."
Is that the one you mean?
"It might have been me, but the one I have is titled "The Red Light Diary of Mary....thoughts of an early feminist."
No, I think that was one of the popular "Magdalene" series. This one had seven seals which were not to be opened until the anointed fat lady sang.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.