Skip to comments.Daily Reflections with Oswald Chambers [April 10, 2006]
Posted on 04/10/2006 3:12:31 AM PDT by .30Carbine
Co-Crucifixion. Have you made the following decision about sin--that it must be completely killed in you? It takes a long time to come to the point of making this complete and effective decision about sin. It is, however, the greatest moment in your life once you decide that sin must die in you--not simply be restrained, suppressed, or counteracted, but crucified just as Jesus Christ died for the sin of the world. No one can bring anyone else to this decision. We may be mentally and spiritually convinced, but what we need to do is actually make the decision that Paul urged us to do in this passage.
Pull yourself up, take some time alone with God, and make this important decision, saying, "Lord, identify me with Your death until I know that sin is dead in me." Make the moral decision that sin in you must be put to death.
This was not some divine future expectation on the part of Paul, but was a very radical and definite experience in his life. Are you prepared to let the Spirit of God search you until you know what the level and nature of sin is in your life--to see the very things that struggle against Gods Spirit in you? If so, will you then agree with Gods verdict on the nature of sin--that it should be identified with the death of Jesus? You cannot "reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin" ( Romans 6:11 ) unless you have radically dealt with the issue of your will before God.
Have you entered into the glorious privilege of being crucified with Christ, until all that remains in your flesh and blood is His life? "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me . . ." ( Galatians 2:20 ).
In 1910 Chambers married Gertrude Hobbs. They had one daughter, Kathleen, who still resides in London (as of 1992).
In 1911 he founded and became principal of the Bible Training College in Clapham, London, where he lectured until the school was closed in 1915 because of World War I. In October 1915 he sailed for Zeitoun, Egypt (near Cairo), where he ministered to Australian and New Zealand troops as a YMCA chaplain. He died there November 15, 1917, following surgery for a ruptured appendix.
My Utmost for His Highest, his best-known book, has been continuously in print in the United States since 1935 and in this, the last decade of the century, remains in the top ten titles of the religious book bestseller list with millions of copies in print. It has become a Christian classic. [from the flyleaf of the book]
Absolutely no flaming! These daily threads are intended to be devotional in nature. If a particular day's offering says nothing to you, please just go on and wait for the next day. Consider these threads a DMZ of sorts, a place where a perpetual truce is in effect and a place where all other arguments and disagreements from other times and places are left behind.
I can attest from personal experience that reading from Chambers daily will almost certainly change - not one's faith - but one's perspective of his/her own faith, and open up new vistas in your spiritual life. If - when - this happens to a reader of these threads, and they choose to share what has happened within them - we are treading on hallowed ground. Be respectful.
- Religion Moderator
So I live my life in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God,
who loved me and gave himself for me.
I don't believe in a Trinity (or at least I haven't been convinced) so I wasn't sure if I could ask God to help me connect with His own personal death...
But I could *certainly* ask Him to connect with His Son's death (which as a father, in my books, is an even more horrible thing to contemplate) and take the lesson of today's Reflection.
A rational teaching bump!
Nice to see you again, DieHard! I've been waiting to see you again to let you know that I did indeed take out The Three Musketeers from the library on your recommendation. I got to page 105 before I couldn't take anymore. The last sentence on that page said something like, "Love is the most selfish of all the emotions." I found this "classic" the most pornographic, licentious, selfish pleausure-promoting, fallen human ego-aggrandizing, Way of Christ-bashing and senselessly violent reading I've done in a long time.
I was wondering what it was about the book that you found so worthy of recommendation? I was wondering, too, what it was about me, a Christian and a woman, that you thought would enjoy that reading?
Our last contact (around that recommended reading) coupled with your statement above prompts me to ask: if you do not believe in the God of the Bible--that is, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit--what god do you believe in and how does The Three Musketeers embrace and promote your religious values/your idea of who God is and what He requires?
I ask in all love and all sincerity. I consider you my friend. I was not offended by you as I read the book you recommended; rather, it occurred to me as I continued reading to page 105 that you do not know the Christ of the Bible or understand what He means to me; otherwise you would not have so highly recommended such a book to me. Obviously the author did not love Jesus as I do, either: His ignorance of all that is Christian astounded me for a work of that era and of that popularity. I was taken by surprise!
I would like to help you see Jesus in all His Majesty and Holiness, fully God and fully Man, dying for your sins on the cross and rising from the dead in the perfection of His purity to justify your entrance into the presence of God.
I would like to share with you my admiration for the Word of God, Christ Jesus the Son and only Mediator of my peace with my Creator even as you sought to share with me your admiration for the book The Three Musketeers. There is a wide gulf between these two loves, but we seem to have found common ground for discussion here on the Chambers threads and that is cause for great praise to the Giver of Every Good and Perfect Gift! (:
And this is my prayer:
that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight,
so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ,
filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ--
to the glory and praise of God.
Philippians 1:9-11 NIV
> I found this "classic" the most pornographic, licentious, selfish pleausure-promoting, fallen human ego-aggrandizing, Way of Christ-bashing and senselessly violent reading I've done in a long time.
Oops!... I certainly meant you no offense by the recommendation. And I'm genuinely sorry you didn't enjoy the book. I found Aramis (the priest-Musketeer) a particularly interesting character, with his struggles between following the way of the cloth (which he ultimately does, in the end) and being a Musketeer, and the dichotomy that this presents him with.
(These would be struggles I can relate to in my day-to-day life).
I thought his intended thesis, which followed the lines of "nothing is worth sacrificing if it is not accompanied by regret" to be particularly profound.
All the more interesting because this work of fiction is based largely on real, historical characters and events. Porthos, Athos, Aramis, and D'Artagnan, DeVille, Cardinal Richelieu, King Louis, Buckingham -- all real people.
Granted, it *is* a wee bit of a rollicking read: I suppose I had just filtered that, much like I have to filter what's on the telly and what I encounter in the streets. I'd find it difficult to live my life if I were easily scandalized: over the years I have developed a very thick skin.
(That said, I try to hold myself to a high personal standard of morality and ethic and conduct.)
I guess I forgot that not everybody would find The Three Musketeers entertaining, for the reasons you raise: my recommendation clearly has caused you upset, and for that I am deeply sorry.
The offense was inadvertent.
> what god do you believe in and how does The Three Musketeers embrace and promote your religious values/your idea of who God is and what He requires?
I'll do my best to explain.
As to the Trinity, I have a very simple Faith: the three-in-one is a concept I have a great deal of difficulty getting my head around. Not being able to understand something is a barrier to Faith, for me.
So I explain it to myself like this: God is the Father and is both eternal and immortal. Jesus is His only begotten Son, not eternal (for he was conceived and born of the Virgin Mary) and once mortal (for he died on the Cross) but raised to Immortality at the Resurrection and is now at the right hand of God. The Holy Ghost is the practical outworking of God's power, manifested.
This makes sense to me because I take a very prima facie reading of the Bible. Possibly this is a simplistic approach, perhaps too "face value" but for me I can understand this.
I used to have a Religion. After a series of trials and setbacks in my life, I of necessity took a small step back from my Religion and developed in its place a very simple yet deep Christian Faith.
I lost a strict dogma and gained a deep and rewarding Spirituality. In all, this is working in my daily walk and has given me Direction, whereas what I had before was not.
I hope you are still doing OK with your campaign to quit smoking?
What a precious title! Thank you so much for the Scripture!
Quite a beautiful passage written by our sister, a sweet spirit.. Her experience of and in the that book was my experience of several major denominations and few minor ones and even a cult or two.. over the years..
The Holy Spirit is definitely NOT welcome many of those places.. and I would suspect Jesus isn't either, the real one.. I can relate to what you've written here.. and to 30carbine too.. The only way I can think kindly of "those Church's" and congregations is I that noticed along the way.. That some view Jesus as a human body extant, and others as a Spirit using a human body for awhile..
The "Ones" that relate to Jesus as a human seem to glory in being a human themselves with all the pros and cons related to that.. The "Others" relate to Jesus as a Spirit before, after and during his human episode.. and being human was merely divine contact; on several levels..
1) Answer to Prophecy from prophets..
2) An Object Lesson for teaching..
3) An Epilogue to the Jewish experience..
4) A Prologue to the Spiritual experience..
5) And a hint to future ultimate Universal experience..
Was Jesus human or divine?.. Or a human masking divinity.. Important questions.. Was Jesus God?.. A human selected to do divine things.. Or God incarnate?.. If he was God incarnate then he was God before the incarnation, God being an eternal being.. Who specifically is the Godhead; God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus, "the Christ(Messiah)".. It don't say anywhere the answer to that.. Actually in Exodus Ch 3;3 it says(basically) "its none of our business".. Who they are.. i.e. "I am; sent you. I am that I am"..
Yes... Jesus(Spirit) riding a human body around like a donkey will/can give an expanded view of "the Plan".. For as I see it, that is promoted through metaphor all over the Old and New Testaments.. "We" are, also, spirits in human bodies.. Always were, all of us, understanding scripture especially the New Testament requires knowing that..
And IF "the Vision(or revelation) of Jesus"(Rev ch 1;1) is taken into account.. With its vision of the past, present and future events.. A prologue (metaphorically) is given to an extremely Spiritual future.. The human experience it seems then is based in humility and gratitude.. Properly humble with the right amount of gratitude we as humans who are really spirits can then see scripture spiritually and be encouraged that the architect of our spirits is building even today a proper spiritual dwelling place to house your and my spirits..
I got quite a bit of encouragement from this discourse between you and 30carbine.. Thanks to all involved.. For if the Spirit of the Christ is nothing its the TRUTH.. Truth rings like rubbing a wet crystal wine glass to me..
Thanks for that, hosepipe -- you set the issue out succinctly and well.
"You cannot "reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin" ( Romans 6:11 ) unless you have radically dealt with the issue of your will before God."
I found Aramis (the priest-Musketeer) a particularly interesting character, with his struggles between following the way of the cloth (which he ultimately does, in the end) and being a Musketeer, and the dichotomy that this presents him with. (These would be struggles I can relate to in my day-to-day life). I thought his intended thesis, which followed the lines of "nothing is worth sacrificing if it is not accompanied by regret" to be particularly profound.
From what I gathered, this Musketeer "sacrificed" the head of his girlfriend in the sight of the rest of the band at the end of the book. That's just the opposite of what Jesus, the perfect Man, did for His Beloved. Rather than killing her for her sins, He dies in her place!
it *is* a wee bit of a rollicking read: I suppose I had just filtered that, much like I have to filter what's on the telly and what I encounter in the streets. I'd find it difficult to live my life if I were easily scandalized: over the years I have developed a very thick skin. (That said, I try to hold myself to a high personal standard of morality and ethic and conduct.) I guess I forgot that not everybody would find The Three Musketeers entertaining,
I am not easily scandalized: oh, if you knew my life before Christ, or the true life stories I hear at the pregnancy center!
I am not entertained by what was in the book or even what is on television these days, just as I do not find my sinful past at all entertaining and the stories I deal with in crisis pregnancy center ministry are far from entertaining.
I don't own or watch TV because it is so incredibly violent and pornographic. Scripture commands me to guard my heart and like Job I make a covenant with my eyes--windows to my very soul.
It was not entertaining for me to read about grown men not working for a living, using women as sex objects, using women as sugar-mamas, and killing for fun and sport. As I said, the last straw for me was that line on page 105: "Love is the most selfish of all the emotions." That is a horrible lie: It was love that held Jesus to the cross. What this book referred to as love was not what the Bible refers to as love, and the Bible is my source of truth.
It is because I have been soaking up the Truth for twelve years that my tastes were so unaccustomed to what your tastes found "entertaining" in The Three Musketeers or what you can put up with on TV. What you find entertaining--something to do in your down time--I use (in REAL life) as cause to fall on my face before the living God and plead His blood over, so that men may be set free! This is why Jesus, the God/Man came, and why He died: Because He lives it is possible to be in this world but not of it; dead to sin and alive unto God!
I thank you that the reading you recommended out of your pleasure was a way for me to see how little this world pleases me and how eager I am to please my Father in heaven and to be like unto Him in all things. It is a miracle of His Spirit in me that has so transformed my mind that even The Three Musketeers, a classic in this world's sight, is such rubbish to me.
Hosepipe, if you have been in churches that fit my description of The Three Musketeers I am very sorry for you. I hope you have found a biblical, loving, true family with which to worship our Lord and Savior and in which to serve His interests here on earth until He comes! Amen!
> 11."Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."
In my view, that can happen in its absolute form, only after I am dead and resurrected and if found worthy at Judgment by Grace...
...but nothing stops us from trying our best in the Interim. St Peter got it wrong quite a few times, right up until the Crucifixion and even afterwards (according to St Paul)...
Yet St Peter is my very favorite Disciple (and later Apostle) precisely because of his Humanity. And because he kept on trying.
Anyrate. I'm not perfect and I don't profess to me. I seek to be Forgiven when I fail. Meanwhile, I live a life in which I am not and cannot hope to be pure because I share Adam's sin nature and frankly I don't try for purity. I'm a son of Adam aspiring to find a better way, and perhaps one day be granted Grace. And perhaps have to accept that Grace is not granted, in which case dire consequences follow...
Until then there is work for me to do that sometimes precludes purity. I accept that in so doing I may Sin inadvertently. It is an acceptable cost to me -- I'll seek Forgiveness and argue the toss later.
For me, a simple Faith accompanied by simple beliefs work best, because I'm a simple man. Complex beliefs defeat me. To that end, I was able to take some valuable lessons from The Three Musketeers. As a Guardian Angel I could relate to each of them, in different ways for different reasons. Porthos, Athos, Aramis, D'Artagnan, de TreVille.
I failed to allow for others who aspire to and achieve a higher calling than I do, now and today, probably hereafter, and by so doing I offended a FRiend. And for that I apologize. No offense was *ever* intended.
I'll lurk this thread for a wee while. I don't want to cause further offense amongst my FRiends. The wilderness will do me good. Time to reflect.
Love in Christ
Thank you so much for asking about my quitting smoking! Today is Day #32! I am still walking, still doing Jazzercise, still maintaining my weight...though not losing yet, as I would like to...! O, this flesh is demanding, ain't it?! It doesn't like to be told "No." (:
I did not intend to attract flame by recommending a book I found inspirational in a practical sense (albeit will full filters on).
I felt that the section of "The Three Musketeers" that talked about Aramis' Thesis on personal sacrifice would help you quit smoking (as it did for me).
His dichotomy between being a Musketeer and a man of religion is the same dichotomy I feel as a Guardian Angel and a committed Christian.
I live a life not too different to the book I recommended to you, in all innocence and with the best of intention. Very few things in this life shock me. Seen it all, 'tis filtered, and I don't mind. There's good work yet to be done...
I intended you no offense. And I have (in my view) amply apologized for causing you any hurt. Be it far, far from me to cause you to be offended!
I could relate to the book: my life's experience and what I'd seen to date pushed me toward a greater understanding of how Life is, from its pages. All of which contributed to my current World View: which is based upon a deep and practical Christian Spirituality.
This may or may not coincide with yours: I can do nothing about that.
I reiterate: I meant you no offense. I apologize for any offense I've caused you. I am sorry. Truly and profoundly and deeply sorry. For I treasure you as a FRiend.
I shall lurk for quite a while and not post on these pages anytime soon. Time in the wilderness will do me good.
Love in Christ
> Absolutely no flaming! These daily threads are intended to be devotional in nature. If a particular day's offering says nothing to you, please just go on and wait for the next day. Consider these threads a DMZ of sorts, a place where a perpetual truce is in effect and a place where all other arguments and disagreements from other times and places are left behind.
Ma'am, what say you to this? You say this thread is a DMZ. For me I must treat it as a Wilderness for fear of causing you further unintended Offense.
Perhaps is the Mission of this Thread different to what it says...?
Amen. I'm a lot like Peter too.
And perhaps have to accept that Grace is not granted, in which case dire consequences follow...
Grace is granted, and that's why folks like Peter and me and you can pick ourselves up and start walking the Narrow Way again! "Because He lives, I can face tomorrow," says a popular song about our Lord and Savior Jesus. It is true! He lives! He lives! And He is alive in me! His grace is to all by faith: Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you SHALL BE SAVED, says the Bible (Acts 16:31), and see what Romans 3:22 says! -
DieHard, I am not offended by you, dear heart; I love you. If I am offended at all it is because the God of this World, Satan that wicked liar and father of all lies, is at his dirty work, and that I take offense at.
We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God,
that we may understand what God has freely given us.
1 Corinthians 2:12
Be assured of my love for you and be at peace. (:
It must had to have been my experience.. to be where I am now.. I am grateful.. painfully grateful.. The book about the Frenchmen was on a worldly/fleshly level and should be expected.. what was not expected was finding the "world" so firmly entrenched and established in the "church".. Albeit the words to identify the "worldly things" were changed to mask so-called "spiritual things", it was the same as the book about the Frenchmen..
I won't go into "those" things for fear some here might deem them "spiritual".. but for me they not good enough.. many so-called "charasmatic" things are not.. and some non "charasmatic" things are.. in the proper rendering of charasmatic meaning "spiritual".. that "I" see..
Amazing what some deem or think or consider spiritual are merely fleshly props.. in a spiritual act.. My agenda is not to stop all that, but simply to be in spiritual reality myself.. After all the book of Revelation, or Vision of Jesus(Rev ch1;1) displays "those" things must be, will be, and are.. i.e. 7 churchs of asia.. That is to say some must go thru all seven types of churchs (like ME) to get to Philidelphia.. and know where you are.. like that.. Denominations are not important, the 7 churchs of asia ARE important though.. extremely important and the eyes to see them, I think, are a spiritual gift.. i.e. blessing.
As Jesus said, "its not what comes into a man that defiles him, but that which comes out"..(paraphrased)..
LoL.. Oh! stop... You don't appear to be a drama queen.. I fancy you're not.. Remember we can have private responses among each other too.. Theres a time for that.. Fear of offending each other should be a goal, but not a DOGMA... The accuser of the brethren is busy, but hopefully not here..
Theres really only one church and its not mine or yours.. it belongs to the Christ.. its his fiance'.. the Bride of Christ.. and she needs zero makeup or clothing.. its a spiritual thing.. shes clothed with righteousness..
> LoL.. Oh! stop... You don't appear to be a drama queen.
(Big Grin!) Thanx! There's nothing like a sense of proportion to get things onto an even keel.
"Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the Children of God..."
Happy Easter to all.
(My heart is singing it!)