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'Left Behind' Battles Rage On (Left Behind - The Video Game? AAAAA!)
The Christian Post ^ | Wednesday, Apr. 19, 2006 | Staff

Posted on 04/21/2006 8:50:48 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger

The rapture has come, and the believers have been gathered up and taken to heaven. As for everybody else: They've been left behind to duke it out in a smoldering, apocalyptic New York City.

That's the scenario in a soon-to-be-released Christian-themed video game. Meanwhile, in the real world, the Christian community is engaged in its own skirmish over the virtues or vices of the concept of a Christian video game that involves killing.

"Left Behind: Eternal Forces," which is made for PCs and will be unveiled at the E3 show next month, is a classic struggle of good vs. evil.

Here, the angelic Tribulation Forces and the demonic Global Community Peacekeepers, led by the Antichrist, battle it out to convert secular, neutral units to their respective sides.

Players participate in "battles raging in the streets of New York," according to the game's fact sheet. They engage in "physical and spiritual warfare: using the power of prayer to strengthen your troops in combat and wield modern military weaponry throughout the game world."

The scenes and challenges that unfold — as players control more than 30 unit types from Prayer Warrior to Hellraiser to Spies, Special Forces and Battle Tanks — are based on the prophecies from the Book of Revelation as interpreted by the popular "Left Behind" book series, by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins.

On the one hand, it's perfect content for a video game — set in a fictional, futuristic world with a black-and-white view of what's good and what's bad. Take those elements and tie them directly to the Bible, and now you can market an exciting, conflict-ridden game to the Christian community, enticing them with something that, if packaged differently, might come across as potentially harmful to wholesome Christian youth.

But on the other hand you have ... something that's potentially harmful to wholesome Christian youth (or any youth for that matter).

A Newsweek article last month said the level of violence in "Left Behind" makes it "reminiscent" of "Grand Theft Auto" — a game well-known for depicting shocking levels of brutality and accused of inspiring hooked teenagers to commit real-life copycat crimes.

The CEO of Left Behind Games — a company started specifically to turn the book series into video games — said the Newsweek article was uninformed. He said the game won't be rated any higher than a "T" for teenagers, and that it depicts nothing more menacing than what he calls "Star Wars violence."

"Our game has no blood, no decapitation, no vulgar language," Troy Lyndon said. "Our game does not have gratuitous violence for the sake of showing intestines on a doorknob."

He insists his company has produced an inspirational source of entertainment with a good message, without compromising on quality.

"We believe parents need a substitute for the degrading moral values of 'Grand Theft Auto' or some of the top-selling titles," Lyndon said. And you can't get gamers to switch over from "Grand Theft Auto" if you only offer a conflict level of, say, Pong.

Christian attorney Jack Thompson, a fervent anti-video-game-violence activist in Miami, says the makers of "Left Behind" are compromising their values as they try to provide an effective substitute for mainstream games.

"It breaks my heart to realize that the culture has basically transformed the church rather than the church confronting the culture and trying to transform it," Thompson said.

Having litigated and been involved in many cases fighting against violent video-game content, Thompson said studies show young people's brains are not developed enough to properly process simulated violence.

He thinks the company is counting on a naiveté within the Christian community to embrace the "Left Behind" game just because it is produced by self-proclaimed believers.

The negative effects of violence in video games should not be underestimated, he said, even if it's delivered in a box that is supposedly blessed.

"You've got a generation of boys in this country who are spending sometimes dozens of hours a week blowing away people," Thompson said. "Now they're going to have the opportunity to do it in a Christian setting and, you know, where does it stop?"

But it's not going to stop, some argue. Pop culture is there to stay, and maybe you can win out in promoting your ideology or theology by embracing pop culture and making it your own rather than spending your energy in a fight you might never win.

"Rather than forbid young people from viewing their favorite pastime, I prefer to give them something that's positive," said Tim LaHaye, an author of the "Left Behind" book series who is supporting the game developers.

The Christian community has long been leaving its mark on radio, television, music, movies and fashion. Perhaps it's only natural that video games would come next.

"This is just part of a long trend, part of the cultural DNA of evangelicalism, to make whatever it's doing relevant to pop culture," according to John Schmalzbauer, who is a Protestant Studies chair in the Department of Religious Studies at Missouri State University.

However, enticing believers with movies, books or video games is only half the picture. Great sales or high numbers could mean people just like a good game.

"Whether it helps them actually live out their faith is a different question," said Lynn Schofield Clark, an assistant research professor at the School of Journalism and Mass Communication at the University of Colorado, Boulder, who wrote an upcoming book called "Religion, Media, and the Marketplace."

"To evaluate whether a game is a 'Christian' game you need to ask this: 'Does it make young people more compassionate? Does it make them more interested in human rights?' " she said.

And of course, there's another question: Does it connect with players spiritually?

Lyndon, the Left Behind Games CEO, said parents who have seen the game are thrilled. They say it will instill good Christian values in their children — and they're especially excited about the "pray" button.


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: christianmedia; jerryjenkins; leftbehind; timlahaye; videogame; videogames
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Look, the BOARD game was a bit much, but THIS...! And...a PRAY button!? This sounds absurd.

1 posted on 04/21/2006 8:50:52 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger
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To: DaveLoneRanger

This reminds me of the game "spiritual warefare" from years ago, where the little cartoon Christian throws fruits of the spirit at the unsaved and "saves" them. Sometimes, little demons come out of the unsaved and come at him, and he must throw fruit at them too. I never could find the fourth grape...


2 posted on 04/21/2006 8:55:08 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger ("You're not going crazy! You're going sane in a crazy world!" - The Tick)
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To: DaveLoneRanger
It won't be as popular as this game:


"Gunfight" - Atari 2600

3 posted on 04/21/2006 9:00:07 PM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (There is no alternative to the GOP except varying degrees of insanity.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

Does it come with "God Mode"? :)


4 posted on 04/21/2006 9:02:55 PM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (There is no alternative to the GOP except varying degrees of insanity.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger
remember: violence is only bad when Christians use it. Grand Theft Auto has been around for, what, a decade? And now all of a sudden Newsweek has a problem with video game violence?
5 posted on 04/21/2006 9:20:43 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (deletum est carthago)
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To: DaveLoneRanger
"It breaks my heart to realize that the culture has basically transformed the church rather than the church confronting the culture and trying to transform it," Thompson said.

Impossible by definition.

6 posted on 04/21/2006 9:22:34 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (deletum est carthago)
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Ping to read later


7 posted on 04/21/2006 9:31:16 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Colossians 4:5)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

LOL! Follow the money.


8 posted on 04/22/2006 4:51:39 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Dump the 1967 Outer Space Treaty! I'll weigh less on Mars!)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

Is the word "rapture" in the Bible?


9 posted on 04/22/2006 6:16:33 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: DaveLoneRanger
Why does this remind me of The Simpsons parody "Billy Graham's Bible Blaster"?

Bart: "Full conversion! All right"
One of the Flanders boys: "Nah, you just winged him and made him a Unitarian."

All humor aside, the merchandising of the Christian faith is going to seriously hamper it in the West. When people keep trying to sell Christianity to a consumer culture like widgits, that eviscerates Christianity of its countercultural status and places it on the same plane as brown sugar water or 99-cent hamburgers.

10 posted on 04/22/2006 6:19:49 AM PDT by jude24 ("The Church is a harlot, but she is my mother." - St. Augustine)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

we should pursue love, not make games out of spiritual issues.


11 posted on 04/22/2006 6:54:27 AM PDT by alamo boy (Peace Y'all)
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To: jude24

###All humor aside, the merchandising of the Christian faith is going to seriously hamper it in the West. When people keep trying to sell Christianity to a consumer culture like widgits, that eviscerates Christianity of its countercultural status and places it on the same plane as brown sugar water or 99-cent hamburgers.###

so true. genuine faith is walking in truth and love not games and disharmony.


12 posted on 04/22/2006 7:01:47 AM PDT by alamo boy (Peace Y'all)
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To: Salvation
Is the word "rapture" in the Bible?

The word isn't. (That by itself is not such a big deal.) The concept is. What is made of 1 Thessalonians ch. 4 is in question. What to say to be charitable? Let's just say I don't see it LaHaye's way.

Hard to make an exciting video game out of postmil or amil eschatology. . . .

13 posted on 04/22/2006 7:34:03 AM PDT by Lee N. Field
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To: jude24
You mean like these:

Image hosting by Photobucket

14 posted on 04/22/2006 7:41:16 AM PDT by Gamecock ( "I save dead people" -- God (Eph 2:5)
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To: alamo boy; Alamo-Girl
There's an alamo boy????
15 posted on 04/22/2006 8:42:24 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Colossians 4:5)
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To: Alex Murphy

huh?

I am a male and San Antonio is a special place.
Any problems?


16 posted on 04/22/2006 8:52:29 AM PDT by alamo boy (I left my heart in San Antonio)
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To: alamo boy

The only issue is that Alamo-Girl is something of a legend around here.


17 posted on 04/22/2006 9:30:08 AM PDT by jude24 ("The Church is a harlot, but she is my mother." - St. Augustine)
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To: Gamecock; P-Marlowe; xzins
Gamecock - your image didn't come through. Here's the link.

I gotta ask if this is for real. This is almost as bad as the True-Love-Waits underwear. (I maintain, if you're showing off your "True-Love-Waits" underwear, the question is moot.)

Advertising the gospel on girl's butts. Now that takes the cake - if it's really true, and not an Onion-style parody, that is the nadir of trying to use viral marketing techniques for evangelism.

18 posted on 04/22/2006 9:38:29 AM PDT by jude24 ("The Church is a harlot, but she is my mother." - St. Augustine)
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To: Salvation
" Is the word "rapture" in the Bible?"

That's a legitimate question. If you had a Latin Bible, you would find the word "rapio" or "rapere" which means to seize, or to snatch. The word rupture is simply a twisted variant on a doctrine contained in the Word of God.

Technically, the word "rapio" or "rapere" (I'm not a Latin Scholar so the exact spelling I'm unsure of.) occurs in the following verses...
Thess. 4:17
Acts 8:39
2 Cor. 12:2,4
Rev. 12:5
John 10:28-29


The following people in the Bible had a rapture type event...
Enoch (Gen. 5:12, Heb. 11:5)
Elijah (2 Kings 2:11)
Phillip (Acts 8:39)
Paul (2 Cor. 12:2)
Jesus (Acts 1:2,9)

Therefore, the doctrine of rapture is clearly in the Bible. Exactly how and when it will happen in the future is a muddier discussion. I hope this helps you.

Sincerely
19 posted on 04/22/2006 9:46:12 AM PDT by ScubieNuc
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To: ScubieNuc; Salvation; Gamecock
The word rupture is simply a twisted variant on a doctrine contained in the Word of God.

Maybe your etymology is correct; it's irrelevant, however. "Rapture" is a term of art referring to the alleged event - distinct from the Second Coming - where Christ "picks up" his Church, but not the rest of the dead.

That concept - forgetting the Latin root words, which is an exegetical fallacy since etymology introduces anachronisms that the word didn't mean in when the text was written - is found nowhere in Scripture. It is the invention of John Nelson Darby, a ninteenth-century English preacher from an obscure separatist sect.

20 posted on 04/22/2006 9:50:36 AM PDT by jude24 ("The Church is a harlot, but she is my mother." - St. Augustine)
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To: Gamecock
Great idea! The Tattoo artists should jump on the band wagon. The witnessing possibilities are endless.</Sarc>
21 posted on 04/22/2006 9:53:11 AM PDT by ScubieNuc
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To: jude24

"It is the invention of John Nelson Darby, a ninteenth-century English preacher from an obscure separatist sect."

And unfortunately, as my dying aunt is finding out right now, belief in the rapture will ultimately dissappoint - and many will find themselves surprised and unprepared by their inevitable upcoming death.


22 posted on 04/22/2006 10:04:08 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: jude24
Your goin' hafta use smaller words, cuz I aint college edumacated! 8^)

To attempt to reach a peaceful ground, I will say that I don't believe that rapture is an essential doctrine that Christians necessarily have to be in complete agreement with. I was simply answering a common question about rapture.

Sincerely
23 posted on 04/22/2006 10:05:59 AM PDT by ScubieNuc
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To: jude24

is she from San Antonio? maybe we know each other.


24 posted on 04/22/2006 10:07:39 AM PDT by alamo boy (I left my heart in San Antonio)
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To: ScubieNuc
Sorry, your sarcasm has already transitioned into reality.


25 posted on 04/22/2006 10:08:04 AM PDT by Gamecock ( "I save dead people" -- God (Eph 2:5)
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To: ScubieNuc
To attempt to reach a peaceful ground, I will say that I don't believe that rapture is an essential doctrine that Christians necessarily have to be in complete agreement with.

That's reasonable. I have no major hostility towards pretribulational dispensationalism, or those who hold to that belief. My only objection is when prophetic speculation becomes a group's purpose for being. I've sat through too many sermons about the finer points of the Rapture by people entireley unaware that their belief has roots no deeper than the past 150 years. The thing that sets me off is when people teach it to little kids. That still irks me.

26 posted on 04/22/2006 10:09:56 AM PDT by jude24 ("The Church is a harlot, but she is my mother." - St. Augustine)
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To: Scotswife
"And unfortunately, as my dying aunt is finding out right now, belief in the rapture will ultimately dissappoint - and many will find themselves surprised and unprepared by their inevitable upcoming death."

I'm confused by your statement. How did your aunts belief in rapture lead to her not being prepared for her inevitable death?

Sincerely

P.S. My prayers are with you, your aunt, and your aunts family.
27 posted on 04/22/2006 10:13:55 AM PDT by ScubieNuc
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To: Scotswife; Gamecock; ScubieNuc
Some friends from campus and I were discussing Revelation. They had heard that I was - tentatively - amillenial, and that seemed exotic to them. So, they asked how I interpreted Revelation.

My answer was two-fold. Firstly, Revelation from the outset claims to be symbolic. It seems odd to suddenly read Rev. 20 literally, but nowehere else in the apocalypse narrative.

Secondy - and this is where my thoughts dovetail with yours - Revelation was written to actual people living around 75-95 AD. It had to be practical to them. Some far off thing that hasn't happened yet almost two millenia later can't be that useful to people undergoing intense persecution here and now. Revelation was written to show them that Jesus had conquered evil already - not some far-off Hal Lindsey type scenario that neither they, nor their children, nor even their children's children's children's children's children's children (this could go on forever) would see.

That's why I think the amillenial position is the most likely to be accurate - because it applies it to the audience the book was written to, and to me. Now, there may be aspects of the premillenial viewpoint that are correct. That doesn't change the fact that Revelation is immediately applicable to my life right now. Christ has already overcome the world - I don't have to wait for Tim LaHaye's vision of that to come true.

Those are just my thoughts, your milage may vary.

28 posted on 04/22/2006 10:15:38 AM PDT by jude24 ("The Church is a harlot, but she is my mother." - St. Augustine)
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To: ScubieNuc

"I'm confused by your statement. How did your aunts belief in rapture lead to her not being prepared for her inevitable death?
"

She was a strong believer in the rapture...aka Jack VanImpe. And you know...Jack has been assuring us folks that the rapture is IMMINENT. That this will be the generation that will see it - and christians from this generation will not know death.

And so....here she is - a few weeks left at the most.
She will die just like the rest of humanity will die.


29 posted on 04/22/2006 10:18:59 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: jude24

"Revelation was written to actual people living around 75-95 AD. It had to be practical to them"

Exactly - but it was written for all christians for all time. It was not written for a few select christians who happen to be alive at a special moment when they will be lucky enough to be "snatched" and not experience death like all the other christians had to.

"Revelation was written to show them that Jesus had conquered evil already - not some far-off Hal Lindsey type scenario that neither they, nor their children, nor even their children's children's children's children's children's children (this could go on forever) would see. "

Agreed. And while Jesus is shown as having a second coming...it is shown as being a well known unmistakebale second coming. Not a secret "other" type of coming where a select few christians escape the trials of suffering and death that all other christians experienced.

"That doesn't change the fact that Revelation is immediately applicable to my life right now. Christ has already overcome the world - I don't have to wait for Tim LaHaye's vision of that to come true. "

I don't consider LeHaye's opinion on anything.


30 posted on 04/22/2006 10:24:11 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: ScubieNuc; Scotswife
I'm confused by your statement. How did your aunts belief in rapture lead to her not being prepared for her inevitable death?

I'm guessing here, but probably she was so convinced that Jesus' return was right around the corner - what with all the signs of the Apocalypse like unrest in the Middle East and other ominous signs.

"Rapture-mania" has obsessed too many Christians and too many churches. Jesus Christ is coming back sometime, and he's gonna kick some serious butt. Anything else is just details not for us to know - and it's unhealthy for us to be consumed with an obsession about it.

31 posted on 04/22/2006 10:24:50 AM PDT by jude24 ("The Church is a harlot, but she is my mother." - St. Augustine)
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To: jude24

""Rapture-mania" has obsessed too many Christians and too many churches. "

And when one thinks the rapture is right around the corner and that anyone who doesn't believe so is "toast" than what incentive is there to prepare for death? Or to engage in helping the poor? Or engaging in society at all?
Why not just hunker down and wait for the day of the rope?


32 posted on 04/22/2006 10:27:05 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: jude24
I had to do some looking up of words when you posted this...."That concept - forgetting the Latin root words, which is an exegetical fallacy since etymology introduces anachronisms that the word didn't mean in when the text was written."

I came across this, which I found to be funny somehow...

etymology

This word is from the Greek etumos which means "true," and hence the word means "true meaning." But "etymology" really means "original meaning." So even the word "etymology" does not really mean etymology! In other words, its original meaning does not agree with its current usage, and to find the "true meaning" we must always go by the current usage.

and this...

sincere

The etymology of this word is "without wax" (sine=without cera=wax). But today is you describe a person as being "without wax" would people conclude that you are describing a sincere person?


So I guess I'm "without wax." Who'd a thunk.

Sincerely

P.S. I have no deep hidden reason for posting that, beside the fact that I though it was funny.
33 posted on 04/22/2006 10:31:47 AM PDT by ScubieNuc
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To: Gamecock

That *is* a parody, right? I mean, they don't really make those jeans?

I'm betting they are, especially with the line about how there's a "Jesus is my boyfriend" style. I used to use that term in college of some of the girls I knew at a Bible study who liked to stand up and give testimony that basically boiled down to "My life sucked because my boyfriend dumped me, but then I found Jesus, and he's like, the best boyfriend ever! so we're cool now."


34 posted on 04/22/2006 10:34:07 AM PDT by JenB (Nicely done, but shameless)
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To: jude24
I lean towards the Amil position.

I think scripture clearly teaches that Christ is reigning now.
35 posted on 04/22/2006 10:52:31 AM PDT by Gamecock ( "I save dead people" -- God (Eph 2:5)
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To: Gamecock

I have one lingering concern. That means Satan is bound today, at least so that he cannot hinder the Kingdom's expansion. While that is exegetically plausible, it is still a tough argument to make.


36 posted on 04/22/2006 10:54:17 AM PDT by jude24 ("The Church is a harlot, but she is my mother." - St. Augustine)
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To: jude24
I do think that a Christian should do an in-depth study of Revelations. However, that is a HUGE bite to take, and needs to be done with a person of good Biblical training.

I did a few weeks on it for a High School Sunday School class. WOW! Just barely scrached the surface. I used my pastor and many sources that presented different views. One thing that I emphasized, was that they shouldn't just take my belief, but to read and pray over it and let the Holy Spirit lead them.

One thing I try to do to keep it simple, is to remember what Jesus said in John....

Jhn 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.

The fact that Jesus said that he will come again makes it true. The details, like I said before, does get muddier.

If I were to "super sum it up" I would refer to I Cor. 13:13 where Paul refers to Faith, Hope, and Love. Faith deals alot in believing with what has happened, but we can't prove. Hope deals with what is going to happen, and that ultimately God is in control. (and we can't prove) Love is greatest because it began, before us, and will continue even in Heaven.

The issue of Jesus coming again is a fact that gives us Hope.

Sincerely
37 posted on 04/22/2006 10:55:12 AM PDT by ScubieNuc
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To: Scotswife
"And when one thinks the rapture is right around the corner and that anyone who doesn't believe so is "toast" than what incentive is there to prepare for death? Or to engage in helping the poor? Or engaging in society at all? Why not just hunker down and wait for the day of the rope?"

Is that what your aunt did? The reason I ask is because, I haven't personally seen that. I'm not calling you a liar, it's just that hasn't been my experience.

I am a premillenialist, who believes that the "rapture" is probably soon (I'm guessing within about the next 20 years). However, that in NO WAY makes me want to stop helping others or hunker down away from society. In fact, it helps propel me to get the gospel (The good news of Jesus) out to a dieing world. The tribulation time will be a time of immense pain and suffering, and it is a Christians job to let as many people know, as possible, that death, and pain, and suffering does not have to be the end.

If I should be a dieing, old, bed-ridden man, without seeing the rapture, I won't be disappointed. That's because I'll be seeing Jesus anyway, one way or the other.

Here, There, or in the Air.
38 posted on 04/22/2006 11:30:54 AM PDT by ScubieNuc
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To: Gamecock

Please tell me that's a joke.

Please?


39 posted on 04/22/2006 11:54:27 AM PDT by fishtank
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To: fishtank
It's a joke.
40 posted on 04/22/2006 12:05:16 PM PDT by Gamecock ( "I save dead people" -- God (Eph 2:5)
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To: jude24

Not at all. God is in control. His will be done. Satan has no influence in God's Kingdom.

An Augustinian two kingdom world view.


41 posted on 04/22/2006 12:14:01 PM PDT by Gamecock ( "I save dead people" -- God (Eph 2:5)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

It's all so tacky and trashy. The entire subculture, not just the video game.


42 posted on 04/22/2006 12:46:01 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Conservative til I die; Gamecock
It's all so tacky and trashy. The entire subculture, not just the video game.

Speak for yourself - "tacky and trashy" is IMO a matter of taste and culture. Frankly, the type of mass-produced iconic junk I find in "Catholic goods" stores reminds me of "bullfighter on black velvet" paintings:

And for all of our (Protestantism's) foibles, you really can't argue with this being the very bottom of the "tacky and tasteless" barrel:


43 posted on 04/22/2006 2:57:19 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Colossians 4:5)
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To: Alex Murphy
First off, most of those icons you posted are beautiful. It just goes to show you have no taste.

Second, a person finding or selling a piece of toast with what looks like a Saint or Jesus's image on it does not qualify as a subculture.
44 posted on 04/22/2006 3:07:57 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Alex Murphy
First off, most of those icons you posted are beautiful. It just goes to show you have no taste.

Second, a person finding or selling a piece of toast with what looks like a Saint or Jesus's image on it does not qualify as a subculture.
45 posted on 04/22/2006 3:08:02 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Gamecock

It's a joke.

No, please tell me it's not a joke!


46 posted on 04/22/2006 7:17:28 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: ScubieNuc

"If I should be a dieing, old, bed-ridden man, without seeing the rapture, I won't be disappointed. That's because I'll be seeing Jesus anyway, one way or the other."

That's good to hear, because, in my opinion, the rapture as taught according to the Left Behind folks - it just ain't gonna happen.
Do I believe Jesus will come again to judge the living and the dead? Yes. I believe it will happen - and the people living at that time might escape the experience of death the rest of humanity has experienced.

Do I believe in a mysterious mass disappearance of people prior to this second coming? No.


47 posted on 04/22/2006 7:27:13 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: jude24
I gotta ask if this is for real.

A little googling finds it on Sacred Sandwich --> Parody.

48 posted on 04/22/2006 7:59:30 PM PDT by Lee N. Field
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To: Alex Murphy; alamo boy

LOLOL! Glad to meet you, alamo boy. Thanks for the heads up, Alex Murphy!


49 posted on 04/22/2006 9:50:55 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: jude24

Oh thank you so much for the kudos, jude24!


50 posted on 04/22/2006 9:51:28 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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