CATHOLIC HEROES OF THE HOLOCAUST

ELIZABETH ALTHAM

[DTA]

Roman Catholic Church was under duress in almost all of Nazi occupied Europe and did what she could to preserve the Church and the flock because Hitler had a plan to abolish RC Church in his "1000 year reich".

However, there was a part of Europe where RC church was not under duress of Nazi regime. It was Independent State of Croatia, Hitler's ally.

The role of RC Church and Pius XII in WWII events can be seen best from this angle because the actions there were of free will.

The striking differences between RC in Croatia and the rest of Europe:

In Europe, RC clergy was incarcerated in concentration camps.

In Croatia, RC clergy and nuns have run extermination camps and murdered inmates.

According to the The Canon of RC Church, clergy is not allowed to work for other employer without tacit approval of their superior. That means that RC nuns could not run extermination camp for children without tacit approval of the RC Church. In one such camp, Jastrebarsko, thousands of children were starved to death.

In Europe, many of RC clergy opposed Hitler and assisted underground resistance.

In Croatia, all of RC clergy supported Nazi regime and took an active role of supporting Nazi war effort. Many with weapons in their hand, murdering inmates in concentration camps.

More than half a milion Serbs (one million according to Croatian bragging to Germans during the war) and 60,000 Jews were murdered in Nazi Croatia.

60,000 Jewish victims of Holocaust in Croatia are forgoten today because of the political interest. 6 million can be be forgotten tomorrow for the same reason.

When the war was over and Hitler dead, Vatican activelly helped Croatian war criminals by:

-organizing Ratlines to spirit war criminals to South America
-Vatican bank helped Croatian Nazis to hide the loot taken from the genocide victims.
-Croatian fuehrer Pavelic was spirited to South America under guise of RC priest.

Last but not least, Pius XII elevated head of church in Croatia ArchBishop Stepinac to the level of Cardinal. Again, this was done out of free will, there was no Hiter around to appease.

Jonh Paul II beatified Stepinac. Stepinac will probably become The Patron Saint of genocidal murderers.

Today, Vatican is silent about the role of RC Church in the Holocaust in Croatia.

This article is good example of this. Glossing over as if it never happened will not erase the traces of moral responsibility.

It is not news when Pope Benedict XVI visit Auschwitz because RC Church has nothing with Nazi crimes commited there. It will be news when Pope Benedict XVI visits Jasenovac where hundreds of thousands were murdered in the most bestial way in the name of RC faith.

[wideawake]

Everything you posted is a lie, and a demonstrable lie.

Many with weapons in their hand, murdering inmates in concentration camps.

Name one, liar.

And people who were thrown out of the seminary years before the war even started on grounds of moral turpitude do not count.

I'm talking about a bona fide member of the clergy.

[Petronski]

According to the The Canon of RC Church, clergy is not allowed to work for other employer without tacit approval of their superior. That means that RC nuns could not run extermination camp for children without tacit approval of the RC Church.

That logic is laughable.

What that actually means is, any such nuns violated Canon law.

[Petronski]

While it is certainly true that many catholics helped 860,000 jews to escape the Holocaust, it's also true that that the 6,000,000 jews put to death, were put to death largely by christians.

They were not put to death in the name of Christ, they certainly were not put to death in accordance with the teachings of Christ.

[unionblue83]

Ping!

[DTA]

>>>>>>>While it is certainly true that many catholics helped 860,000 jews to escape the Holocaust, it's also true that that the 6,000,000 jews put to death, were put to death largely by christians.<<<<<<<<<

This is debatable whether German Nazis were Christians at all (Hilter was building his own religion cult with the center in Nuremburg. )

However, it is undisputed fact that Hitler grabbed dictatorial power owing to The Catholic Center party.

However, Croatian Nazis who exterminated all Jews in Croatia (around 60,000) were Roman Catholic Christians without any doubt.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I see almost no posters falsely blaming the the Jews for the Holocaust, but I see plenty of stupid bigots blaming Catholics for the Holocaust.

There are a few, not as many as ya'll imagine. But carry on with the self-pity party. Ya'll don't seem real concerned about the holocaust outside of how it affect the church's reputation.

[DTA]

>>>>>>>That logic is laughable. What that actually means is, any such nuns violated Canon law.<<<<<<<<<<

Observing Canon law is MANDATORY, not an option for RC clergy. Violation of the Canon law bears consequences. That's what Reformation was all about. You can not be RC and disobey the authority.

According to you, clergy and nuns are free to violate the Canon Law without any consequence. Superior responsible for their actions gets elevated for commited crimes and beatified.

Vatican did nothing to prevent the genocide while it was taking place, helped perpetrators to escape justice after the war, and kept the proceeds of the crime on their behalf.

We can only debate wheter the role of RC in genocide in Croatia was a role of accomplice or accessory to the crime.

Methinks that the only laughable is your attempt to defend the undefensible. People who deny Nazi crimes are called Holocaust deniers and Nazi Revisionists.

[ArrogantBustard]

People who bear false witness are called liars and slanderers.

[Petronski]

Observing Canon law is MANDATORY, not an option for RC clergy.

Duh!  That's the very nature of law. Do you imagine a class of voluntary laws?

You can not be RC and disobey the authority.

You're laughably naive on that one. Disobeying authority happens on a daily basis. with the USCCB, it's practically policy.

According to you, clergy and nuns are free to violate the Canon Law without any consequence.

Such an exquisite strawman! But as with all stawmen, it is false and not supported by what I have written.

Vatican did nothing to prevent the genocide while it was taking place, helped perpetrators to escape justice after the war, and kept the proceeds of the crime on their behalf.

How about you prove that. Better yet, make that argument to any of the 860,000 jews (or their descendants) saved by the Church.

Methinks that the only laughable is your attempt to defend the undefensible. People who deny Nazi crimes are called Holocaust deniers and Nazi Revisionists.

If you are referring to me as a Holocaust deniar or a Nazi Revisionist, I invite you to go to hell, liar.

[Petronski]

People who bear false witness are called liars and slanderers.

They are also called "DTA."

Can you believe this creep?

[Petronski]

Obviously, "stawman" should read as "strawman," and the first letter of each of my sentences should be capitalized.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Wideawake is a very well-informed and faithful Christian and he ought not think himself burdened to explain why he posted a defense of a much-maligned and lied about Pope.

Forgive me. I'll make an appointment before I ping him next time. lol.

[wideawake]

Ya'll don't seem real concerned about the holocaust outside of how it affect the church's reputation.

It really is fascinating the comments that complete idiots will make about people they don't even know.

Thanks for the reminder.

[ArrogantBustard]

I can believe all sorts of things ... I see them in black-and-white right before my eyes.

Some folks seem to thrive on bile and hatred.

It must truly suck to be them.

[old and tired]

Observing Canon law is MANDATORY, not an option for RC clergy. Violation of the Canon law bears consequences. That's what Reformation was all about. You can not be RC and disobey the authority.

You're joking, right? Lurk around the FR Catholic threads and you'll see Catholic FReepers bemoaning their pastors and bishops who are in almost constant violation of Canon law. Unfortunately, the Catholic Church, just like the rest of the world's religions, is made up of sinners.

You are in possession of a vile and irrational hatred of the Catholic Church. I will pray that God will turn your heart.

[bornacatholic]

Please provide a link showing an article you posted about Jewish heroes of the Holocaust. Unless you have done so yourself, you really have no cause to make that demand of others.

*Well?

Or, does your silence indicate that hypocrisy underlies the request you made to wideawake?

[Invincibly Ignorant]

It really is fascinating the comments that complete idiots will make about people they don't even know. Thanks for the reminder.

Ooooh. Mr. Intellectual getting personal. Imagine the odds.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Or, does your silence indicate that hypocrisy underlies the request you made to wideawake?

It seems to me I'd make that same request of ya'll with my first response. Reading comprehension?

[wideawake]

DTA is a liar who enjoys baiting people.

I repeat my challenge to DTA: you claimed that Roman Catholic clergy, specifically nuns, operated extermination camps in Croatia.

Yet you are unable to name any of them. The only place you name is Jasenovac - yet it is a matter of record that Jasenovac was run by the UDN paramilitary wing of the Ustashe party. It was a government camp and had nothing to do with the Church.

I will point out that in addition to the 16,000 Jews and 50,000 Serbian Orthodox murdered at Jasenovac 12,000 Roman Catholic Croats were murdered there as well.

Most of the websites out there about Jasenovac are run by Serbian fascists like DTA, and they like to downplay the fact that thousands of Catholics died in the Jasenovac slaughter - that inconvenient fact does not fit their propaganda very well at all.

Most websites about jasenovac exist basically to provide Serbs with an excuse for their behavior in Prijedor, Mostar and other places where Serbs imitated the Ustashe they claim to despise.