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Kerry Excommunication Involves More Than We Think
OpinionEditorials.com ^ | 6 June 2006 | Kevin Roeten

Posted on 06/05/2006 6:55:38 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher

Sure, Kerry has been formally ‘excommunicated’ from the Catholic Church. Actual excommunication was likely long before we thought. But 2004 is when you heard from the Vatican that it was official. But the real question is, what about the rest of all the Catholics in public office? Unfortunately, there are many Catholics who refuse to believe and vote for Catholic principles. What should be done with them?

It’s true that 24% of the American population claim they’re Catholic. But it’s also true that voting for a politician who votes for policy in direct opposition to Catholic doctrine(i.e., the “non-negotiables”: 1)abortion, 2)euthanasia, 3)same sex marriage, 4)cloning, and 5)embryonic stem cell research), has committed a ‘serious sin’. In Catholic circles, that’s referred to as ‘mortal’. This is the kind that prevents you from gaining a happy eternal life.

Even though Catholic hierarchy rarely makes an excommunication ‘official’ when an alleged Catholic publicly professes the right to choose heresy, it was lately deemed necessary. For those believing that ‘heresy’ is somehow denoted as a ‘curse’ from God, Webster’s dictionary defines heresy as simply “a belief different from the accepted belief of the Church”. To Catholics, this seems fairly commonplace among certain politicians, and puts them in a state of ‘mortal’ sin. In that state with excommunication, they are ineligible to receive any of the seven sacraments until the error is recanted, and excommunication lifted. If the sin is persistent, Catholics hope that any public excommunication may be the only way to bring the offender back to the Faith.

Word from the Vatican in 2004, was that “Sen. Kerry and all ‘pro-choice’ Catholic politicians who publicly call themselves Catholic yet who blatantly violate Canon Law(Catholic law) by continuing to profess heresy, and receive Holy Communion, must publicly reject their abortion advocacy for the sake of their own souls, and the others they have scandalized. If not, then these people will have been excommunicated.” There it is—formal.

To get very specific, some other Catholic senators(none of which have recanted) that likely have already been ‘excommunicated’ are: Durbin, Kennedy, Leahy, Mikulski, Murray, Landrieu, Dodd, Reed, Biden, Cantwell, Voinovitch, Harkin, Murkowski, Domenici, and Sununu. And that doesn’t even count the 48 Catholic congressmen who wrote a letter in 2004 warning Catholic bishops to back off of the doctrine of the evils of abortion. The worst part about this is that these ‘representatives’ all claim Catholicism as their true Faith, and most have used it to further their political careers. The scary part--they have lied to us about something as personal as their Faith. What else will they lie about? If someone can be so callous and unscrupulous, what else is possible? To be sure, the vast majority is Democrat, but certainly not all. What part of fraud and scandal do they not understand?

It must be also said that any Catholic who publicly and obstinately supports, or votes for the right to an abortion, knowing that the Church teaches officially against that legislation, commits the above heresy(envisioned by Canon #751). Why would any Catholic do this, and insist that they are still Catholic? Any voter who understands the latter, and still votes for the candidate who votes ‘for’ abortion, is likely automatically excommunicated(latae sententiae). Harsh words---that will raise the hackles on many backs. It may even fan the flames of anti-Catholicism. But even Christ, Himself, had very severe words for those that persisted in evil. Even secular organizations have rules for its members. If the members choose not to obey those rules, they can be removed from that organization.

Catholics sincerely wish, however, that any prodigal member will recant his sins, and come back into the Faith. It is their hope, as it is Christ’s, that all people will enjoy the bliss of heaven forever. But even Christ admitted that no matter how much he wanted everyone to enjoy Heaven, that there would be many that would choose otherwise per their own fruition. How short many of us look into the future…


TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholicchurch; excommunication; johnfnkerry; outyougo
No-one can support killing babies and retain membership of the Church!

Are you listening, Lard Ass?

1 posted on 06/05/2006 6:55:41 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher
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To: Aussie Dasher
I just checked the veracity of this story and, evidently I missed it in 2004, but Catholic World News did report it so Kerry's excommunication is a fact.

As a Catholic I have always had trouble understanding how men like Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, et al could continue to call themselves Catholic while demonstrating the support they have for so many policies in contradiction of church doctrine, and as the article shows above there are many more than just abortion. I frequently find myself asking "What Catholic Church do you guys attend?" I guess the answer lies with my Aunt who says "there are Catholics and historical Catholics," the latter referring to people who once were Catholic and still claim to be, but are not in fact. Clearly many of those on that list in the article above fall into the category.

I support the Church's decision here, but I also must say that I fear what will happen in Europe, where church attendance is already down considerably. This could just about wipe the church out in many areas of France and Germany.
2 posted on 06/05/2006 7:13:26 PM PDT by StJacques
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To: Admin Moderator

You made a mistake to pull this thread off the "News/Activism" forum. This article discusses a potentially important change in American political life.


3 posted on 06/05/2006 7:15:42 PM PDT by StJacques
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To: StJacques

Yeah, that's what I thought...


4 posted on 06/05/2006 7:23:04 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher (The Great Ronald Reagan & John Paul II - Heaven's Dream Team!)
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To: cpforlife.org; Knitting A Conundrum

ping!


5 posted on 06/05/2006 7:25:41 PM PDT by Tuscaloosa Goldfinch (good fences make good neighbors!)
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To: Aussie Dasher
Perhaps if the Catholic Church, and every single Protestant denomination stood up proudly for their core principles,(assuming they still have some) and kicked out their " self proclaimed heretical members of the "_____In Name Only" variety, they might gain more respect as serious religious institutions.
In the battle of good versus evil, it is a grave mistake to assume "members of a Christian Church" are naturally allied with the One True God, nowadays.
6 posted on 06/05/2006 7:25:52 PM PDT by sarasmom (To all political staff lurkers: SECURE THE BORDERS, OR YOU'RE FIRED!)
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To: StJacques
I missed it in 2004, but Catholic World News did report it so Kerry's excommunication is a fact.

Link??

7 posted on 06/05/2006 7:26:02 PM PDT by markomalley (Vivat Iesus!)
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To: netmilsmom; NYer; Salvation; Coleus; Pyro7480; Jaded; Flavius Josephus; Campion; TradicalRC; ...

***pingus maximus***


8 posted on 06/05/2006 7:27:13 PM PDT by markomalley (Vivat Iesus!)
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To: sarasmom

Trouble is, if they kick out the politicians in that position they then may have to start on their clergy...


9 posted on 06/05/2006 7:28:00 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher (The Great Ronald Reagan & John Paul II - Heaven's Dream Team!)
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...


10 posted on 06/05/2006 7:31:13 PM PDT by Coleus (I Support Research using the Ethical, Effective and Moral use of stem cells: non-embryonic "adult")
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: Aussie Dasher
The Church has never formally acknowledged John Kerry as having excommunicated himself by his long time support of unfettered abortion. He continues to receive the host in Catholic Churches in Boston and DC.

How he does that is beyond me and how the Bishops countenance it is well beyond me.

12 posted on 06/05/2006 7:37:55 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Aussie Dasher

Clerics need to be examined and purged more often than secular politicians.
The rise of Islam should make that point clear to everyone.
Some people pretend to belief systems that an omnipotent and omniscient God is not also a logical entity.
I am not one of them.


13 posted on 06/05/2006 7:39:29 PM PDT by sarasmom (To all political staff lurkers: SECURE THE BORDERS, OR YOU'RE FIRED!)
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To: markomalley
This BS, not only is he not excommunicated, the Archbishop of Boston when out of his way to give him communion after this bogus story came out.

The new Pope may finally excommunicate this evil SOB and it will serve him right.

14 posted on 06/05/2006 7:39:45 PM PDT by Rome2000 (Peace is not an option)
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To: markomalley
This is probably it:

Kerry Said to Be Excommunicated (10/18/2004)

15 posted on 06/05/2006 7:43:20 PM PDT by BlessedBeGod (Benedict XVI = Terminator IV)
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To: BlessedBeGod
Thanks.

Unfortunately, it is a latae sententiae excommunication. That one is hard to enforce. One whose excommunication is imposed upon him has a much easier time with enforcement (as the latae senteniae excommunicated person could assert that he didn't really understand that his action was forbidden)

The opinion provided was an "unofficial" opinion that this condition existed.

Had an official decree been issued, then the provisions of Canon 1331 would apply:

Can. 1331 §1. An excommunicated person is forbidden:

1/ to have any ministerial participation in celebrating the sacrifice of the Eucharist or any other ceremonies of worship whatsoever;

2/ to celebrate the sacraments or sacramentals and to receive the sacraments;

3/ to exercise any ecclesiastical offices, ministries, or functions whatsoever or to place acts of governance.

§2. If the excommunication has been imposed or declared, the offender:

1/ who wishes to act against the prescript of §1, n. 1 must be prevented from doing so, or the liturgical action must be stopped unless a grave cause precludes this;

As I'm sure you can see, the imposed excommunication is FAR more serious.

16 posted on 06/05/2006 8:07:24 PM PDT by markomalley (Vivat Iesus!)
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To: Aussie Dasher

Bumping on general principle...


17 posted on 06/05/2006 9:03:48 PM PDT by redhead (The REAL redhead -- not the "CP" imitation.)
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To: jwalsh07
"How he does that is beyond me and how the Bishops countenance it is well beyond me."

Exactly. What must his Guardian Angel be thinking? He must have lost the last shred of his conscience a long time ago. So sad...

18 posted on 06/05/2006 9:12:39 PM PDT by redhead (The REAL redhead -- not the "CP" imitation.)
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...
Catholic Ping List
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


19 posted on 06/05/2006 10:54:08 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: Aussie Dasher; StJacques; All
Voter's Guide for Serious Catholics

THE FIVE NON-NEGOTIABLE ISSUES

These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsically evil and must never be promoted by the law. Intrinsically evil actions are those which fundamentally conflict with the moral law and can never be deliberately performed under any circumstances. It is a serious sin to deliberately endorse or promote any of these actions, and no candidate who really wants to advance the common good will support any action contrary to the non-negotiable principles involved in these issues.

1. Abortion

The Church teaches that, regarding a law permitting abortions, it is "never licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or to vote for it" (EV 73). Abortion is the intentional and direct killing of an innocent human being, and therefore it is a form of homicide.

The unborn child is always an innocent party, and no law may permit the taking of his life. Even when a child is conceived through rape or incest, the fault is not the child's, who should not suffer death for others' sins.

2. Euthanasia

Often disguised by the name "mercy killing," euthanasia also is a form of homicide. No person has a right to take his own life, and no one has the right to take the life of any innocent person.

In euthanasia, the ill or elderly are killed, by action or omission, out of a misplaced sense of compassion, but true compassion cannot include intentionally doing something intrinsically evil to another person (cf. EV 73).

3. Embryonic Stem Cell Research

Human embryos are human beings. "Respect for the dignity of the human being excludes all experimental manipulation or exploitation of the human embryo" (CRF 4b).

Recent scientific advances show that often medical treatments that researchers hope to develop from experimentation on embryonic stem cells can be developed by using adult stem cells instead. Adult stem cells can be obtained without doing harm to the adults from whom they come. Thus there is no valid medical argument in favor of using embryonic stem cells. And even if there were benefits to be had from such experiments, they would not justify destroying innocent embryonic humans.

4. Human Cloning

"Attempts . . . for obtaining a human being without any connection with sexuality through 'twin fission,' cloning, or parthenogenesis are to be considered contrary to the moral law, since they are in opposition to the dignity both of human procreation and of the conjugal union" (RHL I:6).

Human cloning also involves abortion because the "rejected" or "unsuccessful" embryonic clones are destroyed, yet each clone is a human being.

5. Homosexual "Marriage"

True marriage is the union of one man and one woman. Legal recognition of any other union as "marriage" undermines true marriage, and legal recognition of homosexual unions actually does homosexual persons a disfavor by encouraging them to persist in what is an objectively immoral arrangement.

"When legislation in favor of the recognition of homosexual unions is proposed for the first time in a legislative assembly, the Catholic lawmaker has a moral duty to express his opposition clearly and publicly and to vote against it. To vote in favor of a law so harmful to the common good is gravely immoral" (UHP 10).

ABBREVIATIONS

CCC Catechism of the Catholic Church

CPL Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, Doctrinal Notes on Some Questions Regarding the Participation of Catholics in Political Life

CRF Pontifical Council for the Family, Charter of the Rights of the Family

EV John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life)

RHL Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Instruction on Respect for Human Life in Its Origin and on the Dignity of Procreation

UHP Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Considerations regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions between Homosexual Persons



Voter's Guide for Serious Catholics
20 posted on 06/05/2006 10:56:58 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: NYer

Thanks for calling people to the thread.


21 posted on 06/05/2006 10:59:26 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer
Wasn't there a move to bring a case against Kerry in ecclesiastical court for heresy? I remember it was a Catholic lawyer doing that in the Archdiocese of Boston.
What ever happened to the case? Or was it another one of the Bishop choosing politics over faith?
We need our bishops to start leading again. Leading, that is, back to Catholic teachings.
22 posted on 06/05/2006 11:21:45 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local communist or socialist party chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing.)
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To: IrishCatholic
Last I heard the Boston archdiocese didn't move on the Complaint, so it was sent to Rome. Balestrieri's (the canon lawyer involved) site is here: defide.com. Hard to tell how recently it's been updated.
23 posted on 06/06/2006 1:48:54 AM PDT by maryz
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To: IrishCatholic

See the following website: http://www.defide.com/


24 posted on 06/06/2006 2:00:32 AM PDT by markomalley (Vivat Iesus!)
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To: jwalsh07
He continues to receive the host in Catholic Churches in Boston and DC.

DC is who -- McCarrick? 'Nuff said. And the "Catholic" church Kerry favors in Boston is the infamous Paulist Center, which advertises itself IIRC as "a worship community in the Roman Catholic tradition" -- whatever that means. (I hear they skip chunks of the Creed that don't conform to their views.) Or maybe the Jesuit Center, with its rainbow flag decor. The Paulist Center at least should have been nipped in the bud 40 years ago, but wasn't.

For the record, O'Malley did at least state publicly (during the campaign) that "Catholic" politicians that defied the Church on abortion should not receive.

25 posted on 06/06/2006 2:04:10 AM PDT by maryz
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To: markomalley
"Link??"

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=32830
26 posted on 06/06/2006 2:44:46 AM PDT by StJacques
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To: jwalsh07
"The Church has never formally acknowledged John Kerry as having excommunicated himself by his long time support of unfettered abortion . . ."

See the link in my previous post. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has acknowledged it.

This may not necessarily mean that some priest in Massachusetts still gives him communion though, but if that is the case, then the priest can be excommunicated too.
27 posted on 06/06/2006 2:47:20 AM PDT by StJacques
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To: IrishCatholic
"Wasn't there a move to bring a case against Kerry in ecclesiastical court for heresy? . . ."

It was actually brought by Balestrieri. See the link in my post #26 above.
28 posted on 06/06/2006 2:49:47 AM PDT by StJacques
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To: StJacques
Thanks.

See my comments in post 16, above.

29 posted on 06/06/2006 3:41:29 AM PDT by markomalley (Vivat Iesus!)
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To: markomalley

Thanks Mark!
I had no clue about this....


30 posted on 06/06/2006 5:50:23 AM PDT by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: Aussie Dasher; Coleus

I would like to see a formal excommunication, with the name John Forbes Kerry explicitly mentioned.

Three of the Catholic Senators listed are actually pro-life on abortion and support traditional marriage: Sununu, Domenici and Voinovich (the writer actually misspelled the names of the latter two). Here are the votes for the three Senators according to National Right to Life:

http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/bio/keyvotes/?id=376

http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/bio/keyvotes/?id=396

http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/bio/keyvotes/?id=457

Voinovich's voting record on life issues has been perfect, while the only deviations for Sununu and Domenici have been on peripheral issues not really involving abortion (the Medicare Modernization Act in the case of Sununu, and Campaign Finance Reform in the case of Domenici).

I can't think of any votes by these three Senators that would trigger excommunication, so the editorial writer has made a mistake and should publish a correction so as not to defame these three good Catholics..


32 posted on 06/06/2006 7:34:22 AM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (http://auh2orepublican.blogspot.com/)
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To: Aussie Dasher

Maybe the Church should bring back Burning at the Stake, huh? Worked for Jacques DeMolay and all them pesky witches.


33 posted on 06/06/2006 7:38:01 AM PDT by CholeraJoe (Bayonet the wounded!)
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To: NYer; Aussie Dasher

Thank you for the ping, NYer. I wasn't aware that Kerry had been excommunicated, although there is some discussion here that questions this. Mainly the type of excommunication.

I hope the Pope can come out and publicly excommunicate those politicians who profess their "faith" then thumb their noses at the Church teachings. There is some clergy that sorely needs to go, as well.


34 posted on 06/06/2006 7:48:49 AM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (If you don't understand the word "Illegal", then the public school system has failed you.)
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bttt


35 posted on 06/06/2006 2:03:20 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Aussie Dasher

The generations of fat-load cardinals & bishops saw themselves as part of the oligarchy and fell in love with all the photo-ops and free lunches. They forgot the Dogma and let evil take root everywhere, even in the clergy.


36 posted on 06/06/2006 4:38:08 PM PDT by thegreatbeast (Perhaps one)
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To: maryz

Dear maryz,

Mr. Kerry received Holy Communion at then-Archbishop O'Malley's installation Mass.


sitetest


37 posted on 06/06/2006 4:55:12 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: StJacques

Dear StJacques,

The opinion offered by the CDF's consultant was informal and offered privately. When it became public, the consultant stated that it was not binding or authoritative, and no one in the CDF bothered to correct him for saying that it was not authoritative.


sitetest


38 posted on 06/06/2006 4:59:03 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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