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Papal Nuncio Gives Communion to John Kerry - Likely Unintentional
LifeSite ^ | June 26, 2006

Posted on 06/26/2006 1:55:29 PM PDT by NYer

WASHINGTON, June 26, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) - At the installation Mass of the new Archbishop of Washington, Donald W. Wuerl, Thursday, Archbishop Pietro Sambi, the representative of Pope Benedict XVI, was seen giving Holy Communion to pro-abortion Senator and former Presidential candidate John Kerry.  The incident was reported by the Catholic News Service (CNS), the official news service of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.

CNS states: "During the Mass, Kerry, who supports keeping abortion legal, received Communion in the hand from Archbishop Pietro Sambi, apostolic nuncio to the United States and Pope Benedict XVI's representative to the U.S. bishops."

LifeSiteNews.com formally requested a clarification from the office of the Apostolic Nuncio.  No reply was sent from Archbishop Sambi's office though LifeSiteNews.com was informed that the nuncio received the request for clarification. 

LifeSiteNews.com also spoke with the Communications Assistant of the Archdiocese of Washington about the matter.  Mark Adkinson indicated that the incident was likely not intentional by indicating that Archbishop Sambi was administering Holy Communion on the side where the dignitaries were seated.

CNS also reported that Archbishop Wuerl shook hands with Senators Kerry and Ted Kennedy as he processed into the church.  "During his entrance procession, the archbishop shook hands with Democratic Sens. Edward Kennedy and John Kerry of Massachusetts, seated side by side in the third row along the center aisle," reported CNS. 

However, Adkinson also downplayed the significance of the greetings telling LifeSiteNews.com that the Archbishop shook hands with "hundreds of people" as he processed into the church.

The issue of allowing pro-abortion politicians to receive Holy Communion has loomed large in the Catholic Church in the United States with a committee on the matter having been chaired by former Washington Cardinal Theodore McCarrick concluding only last week.  While it was finally decided that bishops should decide for themselves on the matter, the church's canon law and the man who now serves as Pope Benedict XVI have indicated that such politicians "must" be denied communion.


TOPICS: Activism; Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; Moral Issues; Prayer; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: abortionsupporter; alquedakerry; anabortion; cutandrunkerry; fakepurplehearts; gigolo; hanoijohnny; ichabodcrane; lurch
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1 posted on 06/26/2006 1:55:32 PM PDT by NYer
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...

Ooops!


2 posted on 06/26/2006 1:55:52 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: NYer

OK, so he didn't actually plan to give Kerry communion. But neither did it matter much to anybody present--or steps would have been taken to make sure it didn't happen. Bottom line: Same old, same old.


3 posted on 06/26/2006 1:58:27 PM PDT by madprof98
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To: NYer
However, Adkinson also downplayed the significance of the greetings telling LifeSiteNews.com that the Archbishop shook hands with "hundreds of people" as he processed into the church.

wow....and Kerry didn't give 'em the "don't you know who i am ?" bit ?
4 posted on 06/26/2006 1:58:58 PM PDT by stylin19a
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To: NYer

For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread,

and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, "This is My Body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of Me."

In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My Blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until He comes.

Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the Body and Blood of the Lord.

A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup.

For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the Body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.


5 posted on 06/26/2006 2:00:39 PM PDT by Nihil Obstat
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To: NYer
CNS also reported that Archbishop Wuerl shook hands with Senators Kerry and Ted Kennedy as he processed into the church. "During his entrance procession, the archbishop shook hands with Democratic Sens. Edward Kennedy and John Kerry of Massachusetts

The Archbishop will be OK. Being pro-abortion is not contagious.

6 posted on 06/26/2006 2:01:37 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: NYer; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; AlbionGirl; George W. Bush; blue-duncan; P-Marlowe; ...
Archbishop Pietro Sambi, the representative of Pope Benedict XVI, was seen giving Holy Communion to pro-abortion Senator and former Presidential candidate John Kerry...

the church's canon law and the man who now serves as Pope Benedict XVI have indicated that such politicians "must" be denied communion.

Well, that certainly clears it up.

Old Man in bank: Well, which is it young feller? You want I should freeze or get down on the ground? Mean to say, if'n I freeze, I can't rightly drop. And if'n I drop, I'ma gonna be in motion. You see...

Gale: Shut up!

Old Man in bank: Okay then.

Gale: Everybody down on the ground!

Evelle: Y'all can just forget that part about freezin' now.


7 posted on 06/26/2006 2:34:18 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: NYer

Man, where are the communion police when you ned them?
8 posted on 06/26/2006 4:09:40 PM PDT by Sopater (Creatio Ex Nihilo)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Thought you might find this interesting.

http://biblebelievers.com/tetlow/queenofall01.html

Queen of All Queen of Rome, Queen of Islam, Queen of All: The Marian Apparitions plan to unite all religions Under the Roman Catholic Church Mary...Millions of Catholics travel to shrines to pray before her image. But what is not commonly known is that Muslims also hold her in high regard, and even among Hindus and Buddhists there is worship of goddesses that bear a striking resemblance to the Catholic Mary.

9 posted on 06/26/2006 4:24:53 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: madprof98

From an article on this subject from last year (Pittsburgh Catholic, 9-29-05):

"The case of withholding Communion from politicians is even more difficult because different bishops may make different pastoral decisions for their dioceses. In an article published last month, Pittsburgh Bishop Donald Wuerl suggested that bishops defer making individual decisions until the conference as a whole reaches consensus."


10 posted on 06/26/2006 4:30:45 PM PDT by Cavalcabo (Sancte Michael, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.)
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A Primer on Canon 915 Can. 915 Those upon whom the penalty of excommunication or interdict has been imposed or declared, and others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin, are not to be admitted to holy communion

Kerry, a divorcée, who never received an annulment and  was married in the backyard of Teresa's Nantucket home by  a federal judge is no longer a practicing catholic and is probably excommunicated.

 

 


11 posted on 06/26/2006 4:39:39 PM PDT by Coleus (RU-486 Kills babies & mothers, Bush can stop this as Clinton allowed it through executive order)
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...


12 posted on 06/26/2006 4:40:26 PM PDT by Coleus (RU-486 Kills babies & mothers, Bush can stop this as Clinton allowed it through executive order)
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To: NYer

NOTE FINAL PARAGRAPH

A rant, the Centurion, and frequent Communion

CATEGORY: SESSIUNCULUM, NAPLAM — Fr. John Zuhlsdorf @ 3:55 pm

Have you ever kept a ratty old pair of jeans, or maybe a threadbare robe, maybe a pair of shoes that should have long gone to the dump simply because they are familiar? "New and far more useful dish rags and sponges are in that packet under the sink. Take a new one out and throw the old one away… yeech!"

For three whole decades people have been using the lame-duck ICEL version in most places where English is spoken. There will be changes in the translation to parts both regular and rare, familiar and occasional. When the changes are made, some people who haven’t had a chance to understand what the prayers really say in the Latin original are going to freak out, thinking that they are being robbed of something precious, something familiar.

When you are a beggar in rags, or simply aren’t thinking, a familiar rag seems pretty important.

However, Holy Church clothes our liturgy, and us, in gorgeous words, magnificent verbal garments. The Latin is overwhelming. When the new translation is given to us, at last, don’t be tempted to cling to the rag.

But, some people want us to beg for more rags.

When you come to understand that the rag isn’t maybe as good as what you ought to have, indeed that you have all these years been robbed of what you were supposed to have, you might be less inclined to hesitate accepting, nay rather demanding, your rightful patrimony, and tossing aside the rag for the rag it is.

So, we should strive to learn what we have now and what we ought to have had all along. The Fathers can help us.

You probably don’t know much about Chromatius of Aquileia (+c.407). He became bishop after the death of Valerian and he carried on a epistolary exchange with Rufinus and Sts. Ambrose and Jerome. As a matter of fact, he tried to make peace between Jerome and Rufinus… yah right.
He wrote quite a few exegetical treastises, especially on the Gosepl of Matthew, to which we now turn our attention.

In his tr. in Mathaeum 39 (CCL 9A ) reflects on the Centurion and his declaration of faith in Jesus’ power to heal his servant.

Whence that Centurian, even though he saw our Lord and Savior as a man according to the flesh, nevertheless recognized that He was God by the sight of his mind and of his faith. So, it goes: Speak but a with a word and my servant will be healed, for he believed that He was present in all places by the power of His divine nature and it was enough that he would want to say a word to be able to cure all things, knowing He was the one of whom it was written: He sent his word and healed them. And again: He didn’t cure them with a poultice but, O Lord, it was Your word which heals all things. For he believed he was Him to whom the angels and archangels and all the powers of heaven were subjected in the obedience of servitude. Whence also it was for him that he said: I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but speak but with a word and my servant will be healed, is understood to mean that his house is this world, defiled with the sacrileges of the gentiles and the superstitions of idols, which is attested to as unworthy for God.

Most of the Fathers make use of the Centurion as a symbol of the Gentiles, taking a hint from the Lord Himself about how God’s favor is also to be extended to them and not only to the Jews. In the above, did you catch a foretaste of the great hymn of St. Thomas Aquinas (+1274)? Can one of you say what verse I am thinking of?

Flipping a few centuries forward we find also a note or two from the interesting 13th century commentator Durandus (+1296 - Guillelmus Duranti senior, dictus Speculator) in his Ratione divinorum officiorum. Durandus explained many of the words and gestures of the priest during Holy Mass, giving them very interesting allegorical interpretations which have continued to influence our thought about Mass even today. Here is Durandus (4, 42, 30). He is explaning the gestures and words of Mass (as it was in the 13th century, mind you). He uses the examples of the two officials of the New Testament, the Tax Collector Zacchaeus and the Centurion, to speak about those who desire to receive Communion daily or only occasionally.

There follows: "However so often as you will have done these things" etc. This clause, because it concerns the consecration both of the Body and of the Blood, must be said after the chalice is set down. Truly we must use great discernment in the perception of the Body and Blood of Christ. We must be very careful lest this matter be shelved, and danger of death is incurred, as the Lord strongly declares: Unless you will have eaten the Flesh of the Son of man and will have drunk His Blood, you will not have life in you. But if someone takes (Communion) unworthily, as the Apostles puts it: he eats and drinks for himself judgment, namely of damnation. And thus according to the same Apostle: Let a man test himself and thus eat of that bread and drink of that chalice, etc.

So, someone will say that one must receive Communion daily, but another will say the contrary. Therefore let each person do that which he will have piously believed must be done, for they didn’t conflict with each other, nor did one of them place himself above the other: as an example, Zacchaeus and the Centurion, when the one was happy to receive Christ in his home and the other said: Lord, I am not worthy that you enter under my roof. This is what Augustine says: Some communicate daily of the Body and Blood of the Lord, and others receive only on certain days, for one has in this a free custom.

We should remember that frequent reception of Holy Communion is a very modern development. However, perhaps not so many people always take stock of what reception of Holy Communion is all about. They do not exercise any "discernment" of what they do. Week after week they may even go to church on Sunday… well… maybe when there aren’t other things more interesting… and go forward for Communion as if they are going to get their parking ticket validated. For those who are in the state of grace and who are truly participating with "active receptivity" nothing could be more advantageous than frequent Holy Communion. And for those who aren’t… well….

We should have healthy awe-filled respect for the Blessed Sacrament and our reception of Holy Communion should never be taken for grant or made into a thing of little importance by the fact of our neglect. Let the words of the Centurion be our constant reminder of the fearful act of receiving Communion.


13 posted on 06/26/2006 4:40:46 PM PDT by Frank Sheed (Tá brón orainn. Níl Spáinnis againn anseo.)
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To: madprof98
steps would have been taken to make sure it didn't happen. Bottom line: Same old, same old.

Earlier today, I posted a thread on the Installment of Wuerl, including a link to the full video of the actual ceremony. Had you watched it, you would never have made this comment. It's not too late. The link is still active and worth watching.

14 posted on 06/26/2006 4:53:53 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: Nihil Obstat; madprof98
For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the Body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.

And that's the bottom line. Anyone who watched the Installment Mass, which was moved to the Basilica due to the high attendance, will appreciate the impossibility of any prelate from monitoring those in attendance. Hence, the onus is then upon the communicant to respect the gospel and not present himself for communion.

15 posted on 06/26/2006 5:00:00 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: NYer
Had you watched it, you would never have made this comment.

I said the fact that Kerry was given communion meant that nobody thought it worthwhile to worry about the matter. To me, that means . . . more of the same--i.e, lip service to a culture of life and fawning deference to the partisans of death. So what exactly about the installation ceremony was supposed to make me think differently?

16 posted on 06/26/2006 5:08:02 PM PDT by madprof98
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To: madprof98

maybe Kerry told them he wouldn't go to Communion, then he changed his mind.


17 posted on 06/26/2006 5:10:00 PM PDT by Nihil Obstat
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To: NYer
will appreciate the impossibility of any prelate from monitoring those in attendance

Gimme a break! The abortion-lovers/communion problem was the BIG ITEM in the politics of the last DC archbishop. Kerry was Problem #1 in the whole controversy. The guy BRAGS about taking communion while supporting baby-killing 100% And nobody--no priest, no lowly acolyte even--could possibly have been asked to keep an eye on this man? Horse####!

18 posted on 06/26/2006 5:11:27 PM PDT by madprof98
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To: NYer

What a punk Kerry is. He knows darned well he's not supposed to take the sacrament. Yet, there he is. What an unmitigated a**hole.


19 posted on 06/26/2006 5:13:34 PM PDT by Doohickey (Democrats are nothing without a constituency of victims.)
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To: fortheDeclaration
"...the Catholic Mary."

Wow. I always suspected she was a Catholic.

20 posted on 06/26/2006 5:13:35 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (All generations will call her blessed.)
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To: NYer

Dear NYer,

I believe that Archbishop Wuerl, along with his predecessor, Cardinal McCarrick, is on record as being against denying the Eucharist to the likes of Messrs. Kerry and Kennedy.

He is the ordinary of the see, and the papal nuncio would not see fit to impose a different discipline.


sitetest


21 posted on 06/26/2006 5:13:50 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Well, that certainly clears it up.

It's always fun to sniff out situations where the Catholic Church has an 'oops' moment and then post a comment. It's okay ... I've been down this road before with other non Catholic ministers. However, in all fairness, you were never 'pinged' to the Installation Mass thread, nor did you feel compelled to watch the video before posting a commenta to this thread. As a fellow christian, it behooves you to watch the 'full' video of this Installation Mass and then post a christian explanation to your freeper friends, explaining how the Papal Nuncio, or anyone of the 100+ priests in attendance, could have handled this situation. That would be the 'christian' approach, don't you agree?

MASS LINK

22 posted on 06/26/2006 5:14:58 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg
Queen of All Queen of Rome, Queen of Islam, Queen of All

Ahhhhh ... the 'Queenship' of our Blessed Mother. Are you a Bible believing christian?

23 posted on 06/26/2006 5:18:56 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: All

Kerry knows that he's self-excommunicated, which is why he should receive "spiritual" Holy Communion only, which is saying a prayer and asking Jesus to come to you spiritually.

Here's an older story on the subject:

Sen. John Kerry "Excommunicated," According To Vatican Response

SANTA MONICA, CA, October 18, 2004 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A Los Angeles based expert in Canon Law, the legal code used by the Catholic Church, announced Friday on EWTN's the World Over Live with Raymond Arroyo that an important Vatican congregation has given an unprecedented boost to his case for heresy against presidential candidate John Kerry.

Marc Balestrieri, JCL who has filed a formal case for Heresy against Kerry for his support of the right to abortion, revealed that he has received a written response prompted by the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, affirming that Catholic politicians who persist in supporting the right to abortion are "automatically excommunicated."

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/oct/04101801.html


24 posted on 06/26/2006 5:23:36 PM PDT by Sun (Hillary had a D-/F rating on immigration; now she wants to build a wall????)
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To: NYer
Are you a Bible believing christian?

Yes I am.

25 posted on 06/26/2006 5:30:27 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: madprof98
I said the fact that Kerry was given communion meant that nobody thought it worthwhile to worry about the matter.

"Nobody", meaning the Papal Nuncio. That assumes the Papal Nuncio recognized John Kerry. The Nuncio has only recently arrived in this country. Are you suggesting that he should have been given 'flash cards' with the faces of unrepentant catholic sinners and told not to distribute communion to them?

26 posted on 06/26/2006 5:32:43 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: NYer
"During the Mass, Kerry, . . . received Communion . . ."

Also unintentional on Kerry's part I'm sure.
27 posted on 06/26/2006 5:36:12 PM PDT by StJacques
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To: Doohickey; madprof98; Nihil Obstat
What a punk Kerry is. He knows darned well he's not supposed to take the sacrament.

Thank you! ..... for identifying the individual responsible. It is not the problem of the Papal Nuncio but that of the communicant who should not have presented himself for communion.

28 posted on 06/26/2006 5:36:50 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: NYer
Anyone who watched the Installment Mass, which was moved to the Basilica due to the high attendance, will appreciate the impossibility of any prelate from monitoring those in attendance

And this is why a formal excommunication of these miscreants is necessary, both to prevent acts of sacrilege on their part and to cease scandalising both the faithful and the unfaithful. If someone like Monsieur Kerry were formally excommunicated, ANY bishop, priest, deacon, or even extraordinary minister of Holy Communion could simply refuse them. No excuses, and no apologies necessary.

29 posted on 06/26/2006 5:40:22 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
"...the Catholic Mary." Wow. I always suspected she was a Catholic.

LOL!

30 posted on 06/26/2006 5:40:52 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: Sun; sitetest; madprof98; Mrs. Don-o
Kerry knows that he's self-excommunicated, which is why he should receive "spiritual" Holy Communion only, which is saying a prayer and asking Jesus to come to you spiritually.

And thank you! for pointing out that the John Kerry is the one culpable; not the Papal Nuncio. Thank you! The onus is on Kerry.

31 posted on 06/26/2006 5:53:41 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg; Mrs. Don-o
Are you a Bible believing christian?
Yes I am.

Good! So am I!

Then we both agree that Jesus is a descendant of the House of David, right?

32 posted on 06/26/2006 5:57:03 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
If someone like Monsieur Kerry were formally excommunicated, ANY bishop, priest, deacon, or even extraordinary minister of Holy Communion could simply refuse them. No excuses, and no apologies necessary.

Yes .. of course. But, keep in mind that the Papal Nuncion has only recently arrived on these shores. He couldn't possibly know, much less recognize, the miscreant catholics, especially at a service such as this with thousands in attendance. Cut him a break! The onus is on John Kerry, not the Nuncio.

33 posted on 06/26/2006 6:00:41 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: StJacques
Also unintentional on Kerry's part I'm sure.

Lol ... you forgot the (/sarcasm).

34 posted on 06/26/2006 6:02:26 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: NYer
That would be the 'christian' approach, don't you agree?

The 'christian' approach would be to capitalize 'christian,' just as you have capitalized 'Catholic.'

35 posted on 06/26/2006 6:51:02 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: NYer
I'm not blaming the Papal Nuncio, not directly. But whether by the Pope, or the Ordinary bishop of these miscreants' residence, a formal excommunication would make them so notorious that they would be recognised. They OBVIOUSLY can't be trusted to conduct themselves appropriately. IMHO, the matter should be taken out of their hands. They should be formally booted.

But I'm not the Pope. I'm not even their bishop. It's above my pay grade.

36 posted on 06/26/2006 6:52:40 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: NYer

When was the last time the RCC excommunicated any one with money or an important position? They bury Mafia dons, so who is surprised that the Church's bigwigs hobnob with Kerry and Kennedy and enjoy it?


37 posted on 06/26/2006 6:57:11 PM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg; Mrs. Don-o
Then we both agree that Jesus is a descendant of the House of David, right?

Well, while we're waiting for your response to that question, let's proceed from the obvious response of "yes" to the Queenship of Mary, okay? As Bible believing christians, we would all pose the same question ... so where is that in Scripture?

Let's take a closer look at the role of queen-mother in the Old Testament. Virtually every time a new king is enthroned in First and Second Kings, his mother is mentioned. Many kings had multiple wives, making it difficult to choose one to be queen so the king's mother was given the title and role.

In the Davidic monarchy, the queen-mother, or gevirah ("lady"; feminine form of gevir, "lord") played a very important role. King Solomon instituted this position when he enthroned his mother, Bathsheba, at his right hand (I Kings 2:19), and all his successors followed his example with their own mothers. This was the kings' way of fulfilling the Commandment to honor their mothers (Exodus 20:12)

Each time the Bible records a king of Judah, it mentions his mother (see I Kings 14:21; II Kings 14:2; 21:19; 23:36; 2 Ch 22:2) because she was the gevirah, and so had a special place in his court. The prophet Jeremiah sends a warning to both the king and his mother (Jer 13:18), and the Babylonians took both King Jeconiah and his mother away into captivity (2 Kings 24:15; Jer 29:2).

Jesus is the final Son of David, the rightful heir to King David's throne. He has exalted the Davidic dynasty into heaven itself, thus making it a truly everlasting kingdom (Ps 89:35-37). And, like His earthly forefathers, He has enthroned His Mother, Mary, at His right hand as the Gevirah of the Kingdom of heaven.

Consider, for example, the role of Bathseba, the wife of David and the mother of Solomon. When David was king and Bathsheba entered his presence, she bowed to the floor in homage to him and said, "My lord, King David, live forever!" (1Kings 1:31). But after David died and Solomon became king, Bathsheba went directly to him to ask a favor, and when she entered the room Solomon "stood up to meet her and paid her homage. then he sat down upon his throne, and a throne was provided for the king's mother, who sat at his right" (1Kings 2:19).

She no longer pays homage to the king; he pays homage to her and he seats her on his right, the position of authority. When Bathesheba told Solomon that she had a small favor to ask of him, the king said, "Ask it, my mother .... for I will not refuse you". (1Kings 2:20).

Jesus did not use these same words when His Mother told Him at Cana that the wine had run out, but He deferred to her wishes and performed a miracle at her request, even though His hour had not yet come. He continues to defer to the wishes of His Mother and queen in Heaven. Thus, the Catechism says (n. 966) that when Mary's earthly life was finished, she was "taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death' [Lg, n. 59; cf. Pius XII, Munificentissimus Deus (1950); DS 3903; cf. Rev. 19:16]."

In summary, Dr. Ludwig Ott said in his book, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma (TAN Books) that "Mary's right ot reign as Queen of Heaven is a consequence of her Divine Motherhood. Since Christ, because of the hypostatic union, is a man the Lord and King above all creation (cf. Luke 1:32f; Apoc. 19:16), so Mary as 'the Mother of the Lord' (Luke 1:43) shares in the royal dignity of her Son, even if only in an analogical way. Furthermore, Mary's royal merit is based on her intrinsic connnnection with Christ in His work of Redemption. Just as Christ is also our Lord and King because He has redeemed us with His precious Blood (1Cor. 6:20; 1 Peter 1:18f.) so, in an analogical way, Mary is our Lady and Queen because she is the new Eve and has shared intimately in the redemptive work of Christ, the new Adam, by suffering with Him and offering Him up to the Eternal Father. Mary's sublime dignity as the Queen of Heaven and Earth make her supremely powerful in her material intercession for the children on earth".

38 posted on 06/26/2006 7:00:12 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: kittymyrib
the Church's bigwigs hobnob with Kerry and Kennedy and enjoy it

That is pure supposition on your part. Prove it!

39 posted on 06/26/2006 7:02:38 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
The 'christian' approach would be to capitalize 'christian,' just as you have capitalized 'Catholic.'

The term 'Catholic; defines a specific christian group of believers, whereas the tern 'christian' applies to all who accept Christ as their Savior. I am a Catholic christian.

40 posted on 06/26/2006 7:05:26 PM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: kittymyrib

Actually, one of the ways the Church in Italy - and even in New York - has been dealing with the Mafia is to refuse burial rites for known Mafiosi. There was a big fuss about one of these a few years ago, in Brooklyn, if I recall correctly, when everybody howled that it wasn't fair to the Mafiosi's family to deny him a Catholic funeral. Tough.

The RCC actually excommunicates very few people, with or without money. A formal excommunication is a pretty rare thing. I think a few clergy who were out there preaching heresy (such as the awful former priest, Matthew Fox, who then became an Episcopalian) have been formally excommunicated, but otherwise people in a state of mortal sin are considered to have excommunicated themselves and are not supposed to go to Communion.

That said, I'd like to see a few more formal, public excommunications, because I think that is the only thing that is going to make any impression, either on the excommunicated parties themselves or on the public.


41 posted on 06/26/2006 7:10:30 PM PDT by livius
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Not to change the subject, but what's up with Kidman getting married in a Catholic church?


42 posted on 06/26/2006 7:14:24 PM PDT by Gamecock ("I would never hear that kind of bilge coming out of your mouths." xzins)
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To: Gamecock
Not to change the subject, but there's ALREADY a WHOLE FRIGGIN' THREAD devoted to that very topic.

LOOK IT UP!

43 posted on 06/26/2006 7:16:17 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: NYer

"And thank you! for pointing out that the John Kerry is the one culpable; not the Papal Nuncio. Thank you! The onus is on Kerry."

I don't know whether or not the Papal Nuncio knew that Kerry was excommunicated, and don't know the Church's rule on this kind of thing.

But one thing I DO know. Kerry was WRONG!




44 posted on 06/26/2006 7:16:39 PM PDT by Sun (Hillary had a D-/F rating on immigration; now she wants to build a wall????)
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To: NYer; kittymyrib
Prove it? Kitty should just retract it.

Thou shalt not bear false witness.

45 posted on 06/26/2006 7:18:17 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Sun; NYer
Kerry's certainly in the wrong, here, along with Fat Ted and the rest of the apostate, formerly Catholic politicians.

By NOT formally kicking their sorry carcasses out, their respective bishops are allowing them to scandalise the public. I offer the reactions of various people on this very thread as evidence of this scandal.

46 posted on 06/26/2006 7:21:51 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

We still don't know if Papal Nuncio knew that Kerry was excommunicated.


47 posted on 06/26/2006 7:32:20 PM PDT by Sun (Hillary had a D-/F rating on immigration; now she wants to build a wall????)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; NYer
The prescriptive rules for capitalization are actually a little vague. Usually "Catholic" means "member of the Catholic Church" while "catholic" means "of a general scope: that is, universal, or comprehensive."

Since several separate and distinct denominations call themselves "Christian" ("The Christian Church [Penecostal]," "The Christian Church of North America," "The Christian Church [Disciples of Christ]" etc.) some writers use the small-c "christian" to mean a generic follower of Christ.

No offense meant.

BTW I remember once getting hoppin' mad at a publication which used the lower-case "m" for "mass" (as in the Catholic Liturgy) while using caps for such non-Christian terms as "Tet" and "Shinto" and "Bar Mitzvah." We never quite got that straightened out, but I was finally satisfied that the writer was doing it in--- shall we say --- subjective good faith. ;^)

48 posted on 06/26/2006 7:42:19 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Mrs. Don-o. With a capital "D.")
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Well, that certainly clears it up.

ROTFL! Does Papal Law have anything to say about what to do, if the Wafer is expulsed from the mouth (or launched out of the nose) as the result of a spit take??


49 posted on 06/26/2006 8:10:47 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Colossians 4:6)
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To: NYer; Mrs. Don-o

Because the word "Christian" is a derivative of the proper noun, Christ, it should always be capitalized.

Just like American, Roman and Martian.


50 posted on 06/26/2006 8:19:56 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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