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Bosnian bishop urges Medjugorje visionaries to stop claims
Catholic News Service ^ | July 6, 2006 | Simon Caldwell

Posted on 07/07/2006 6:57:38 AM PDT by NYer

LONDON (CNS) -- The bishop whose diocese includes the Bosnian village of Medjugorje has urged six alleged Marian visionaries to stop claiming that Mary has been visiting them for 25 years.

Bishop Ratko Peric of Mostar-Duvno, Bosnia-Herzegovina, said the church "has not accepted, either as supernatural or as Marian, any of the apparitions" said to have been witnessed by a group of people from Medjugorje.

"As the local bishop, I maintain that regarding the events of Medjugorje, on the basis of the investigations and experience gained thus far throughout these last 25 years, the church has not confirmed a single apparition as authentically being the Madonna," he said. He then called on the alleged visionaries and "those persons behind the messages to demonstrate ecclesiastical obedience and to cease with these public manifestations and messages in this parish."

"In this fashion they shall show their necessary adherence to the church, by placing neither private apparitions nor private sayings before the official position of the church," he said.

"Our faith is a serious and responsible matter," he added. "The church is also a serious and responsible institution."

The bishop made his comments June 15 during a homily at a confirmation Mass in Medjugorje's St. James Church. The diocese published the homily in English and Italian July 3.

On June 25, thousands of pilgrims converged on Medjugorje to mark the 25th anniversary of the onset of the alleged apparitions.

Since June 24-25, 1981, the alleged visionaries together claim to have received more than 30,000 messages.

But Bishop Peric said in his homily that "so-called apparitions, messages, secrets and signs do not strengthen the faith, but rather further convince us that in all of this there is nothing either authentic or established as truthful."

He said in February that Pope Benedict XVI expressed similar doubts when they discussed Medjugorje during the Bosnian bishops' visit to the Vatican.

Bishop Peric told the congregation that because the church did not accept the claims of the visionaries it was illicit for priests to "express their private views contrary to the official position" during Mass, in acts of popular piety or in the Catholic media.

He said Catholics were forbidden from making pilgrimages to Medjugorje if by such visits "they presuppose the authenticity of the apparitions or if by undertaking them attempt to certify these apparitions."

Bishop Peric said his views, and those of his predecessor, Bishop Pavao Zanic, who was also opposed to the claims, were supported by the pope. He expressed appreciation to Popes Benedict and John Paul II, "who have always respected the judgments of the bishops of Mostar-Duvno, of the previous as well as the current bishop, regarding the so-called apparitions and messages of Medjugorje, all the while recognizing the Holy Father's right to give a final decision on these events."

He also warned his audience of a schism emerging in the region between the church and more than a dozen Franciscan brothers and priests who have been expelled by the generalate of the Order of Friars Minor in Rome because of their disobedience to the pope.

He said that the expelled Franciscans "have not only been illegally active in these parishes, but they have also administered the sacraments profanely ... or they have assisted at invalid marriages."

Bishop Peric said he shared the view of Bishop Zanic that the visions and the Franciscan "schism," which began under Pope Paul VI in the 1970s, are linked.

Throughout the 1980s, Franciscan Father Jozo Zovko acted as "spiritual adviser" to the visionaries.

But three church commissions failed to find evidence to support their claims, and in 1991 the bishops of the former Yugoslavia declared that "it cannot be affirmed that these matters concern supernatural apparitions or revelations."

A short while later Father Zovko was stripped of his faculties to exercise any priestly functions by Bishop Zanic in a decree upheld by Bishop Peric.


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1 posted on 07/07/2006 6:57:42 AM PDT by NYer
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...
What Marian apparitions have been recognized by ecclesiastical authorities?

There have been uncounted apparitions of Mary reported since the third century. Few have received recognition by the bishop of the diocese in which they occurred. Among those recognized are:

1531, Guadalupe, Mexico - On a hill outside Mexico City, the Blessed Mother appeared four times to a recent convert to Christianity, Juan Diego. Mary proclaimed herself "the Mother of the true God who gives life" and left her image permanently upon Diego's tilma or mantle.

1830, Paris, France - In the chapel of the Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent de Paul, Mary showed herself three times to novice Catherine Laboure (age 24). Laboure said she was commissioned by the Virgin to have the medal of the Immaculate Conception or "Miraculous Medal" made in order to spread devotion to Our Lady.

1846, La Salette, France - Six thousand feet up in the French Alps, Mary is believed to have come to Maximin Giraud (age 11) and Melanie Calvat (age 14) while they tended sheep. Her appearance in sorrow and tears called for conversion and penance for sins.

1858, Lourdes, France - At the Grotto of Massabielle, the Virgin showed herself 18 times to Bernadette Soubirous (age 14). Under the title "the Immaculate Conception," she called for penance and prayer for the conversion of sinners.

1871, Pontmain, France - Mary appeared on a farm to Eugene (age 10) and Joseph Barbadette (age 12) and Francoise Richer and Jeanne-Marie Lebosse, students at the nearby convent school. Mary's message was written on a banner that unfurled from her feet: "But pray my children. God will hear you in a short time. My Son allows Himself to be moved by compassion."

1879, Knock, County Mayo, Ireland - During a pouring rain, the figures of Mary, Joseph, John the Apostle and a lamb on a plain altar appeared over the gable of the village chapel, enveloped in a bright light. None of them spoke. At least 15 people, between the ages of 5 and 75, saw the apparition.

1917, Fatima, Portugal - While tending sheep, Lucia de Santos (age 10) and her two cousins, Francisco (age 9) and Jacinta Marto (age 7), reported six apparitions of Mary, who identified herself as "Our Lady of the Rosary." Mary urged prayer of the rosary, penance for the conversion of sinners and consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart.

1932-33, Beauraing, Belgium - Mary is believed to have come 33 times to the playground of a convent school to five children (ages 9-15), Andree and Gilberte Degeimbre and Albert, Fernande and Gilberte Voisin. Identifying herself as "the Immaculate Virgin" and "Mother of God, Queen of Heaven," she called for prayer for the conversion of sinners.

1933, Banneux, Belgium - In a garden behind the Beco family's cottage, the Blessed Mother is said to have appeared to Mariette Beco (age 11) eight times. Calling herself the "Virgin of the Poor," Mary promised to intercede for the poor, the sick and the suffering.

More recent apparitions include Akita, Japan, in 1984; Chontaleu, Nicaragua, in 1987; Kibeho, Rwanda, in 1988; and Betania, Venezuela.

2 posted on 07/07/2006 6:59:21 AM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: NYer

I have serious doubts about Medjugorje. Every single past apparition with a message, Our Lady appeared a limited number of times over a set period of time. This breaks smashes that general rule.


3 posted on 07/07/2006 7:00:21 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you wish to go to extremes, let it be in... patience, humility, & charity." -St. Philip Neri)
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To: Pyro7480

It does seem rather alot, does it not? Maybe at first but then came the commercialization...


4 posted on 07/07/2006 7:06:44 AM PDT by Jaded (does it really need a sarcasm tag?)
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To: Jaded

I read something recently that said Father Groschel thought similarly....


5 posted on 07/07/2006 7:10:12 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: NYer

A curious thing happened.
I have a friend who is very spiritual and in fact is one of best Catholics I know. Very devoted to Our Holy Mother and was consecrated before I even knew what that was.

A friend of hers told her that one of the "seers" was coming to our area. They should go and see him. My friend went to the venue and got physically ill just about the time the "seer" was to take the stage. She had to walk out. After about an hour, she began to feel better and was about to go back in. People were coming out and she missed the talk. She feels that Our Lady was keeping her safe from the "seers" message.

She does not tell the story often, however when I told her my distain for the Medjugore hoax, she told me and said I was correct. I feel that there is something going on over there but none of it is from God.


6 posted on 07/07/2006 7:12:57 AM PDT by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
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To: Pyro7480

You're right. There is a lot that is very fishy about the Medjugorje "apparitions". Not only the unbelievable loquacity of the supposed apparition, but a lot of what she says. Over the years the "apparition" has said some things that are hardly compatible with orthodox Catholicism, including some very latitudinarian things. Moreover the apparition has encouraged direct disobedience to bishops --- and not to bishops who were commanding anything wrong, but to reasonable directives. Indeed, the "visionaries" have repeatedly defied their own bishops. No Marian apparition that has ever been recognized by the Church has ever involved such defiance of Church authority. There were articles by a well-known conservative Catholic writer back in the 1980s (I cannot remember who it was at the moment) exposing some of the strange statements of the supposed apparition. One of the things I remember that is really goofy is that she gave a statistical breakdown of how many people went to Heaven directly, to Purgatory, and to Hell.
Jesus wouldn't tell the Apostles when they asked him how many would be saved, but the Medjugorje apparition is happy to tell us to three significant figures.

No doubt God has showered grace upon many who have believed in the apparitions there. Scripture tells us that God can make good to come out of evil. It is significant that the popes have all been very cool to the Medjugorje phenomenon.
And these are popes who have a strong Marian piety.


7 posted on 07/07/2006 7:23:15 AM PDT by smpb (smb)
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To: netmilsmom
Interesting story!

I had a neighbor who was living a less than christian life. Someone invited her to Medjugorje. When she returned, she kicked out the boyfriend, and totally turned her life around. However, it didn't stop there. She became obsessed with the visionary messages. Within a year, she put her home up for sale, saying that Mary wanted her to move to Maryland. It was so bizarre.

8 posted on 07/07/2006 7:26:12 AM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: NYer

I recall Father Malchi Martin's comments regarding Medjugorge. He was convinced for many reasons that the apparitions were luciferian in origin. He observed that in most legitimate Marian appearances, the seers reported details regarding the Blessed Virgin's feet, often covered with rose petals. No such pedal observations have been reported from Medjugorge leading him to suspect that the alleged apparition's clothing covered what were quite possibly cloven hoves!

This is a good resource, by the way:
http://www.mdaviesonmedj.com/


9 posted on 07/07/2006 7:26:36 AM PDT by Ozone34
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To: NYer
He then called on the alleged visionaries and "those persons behind the messages to demonstrate ecclesiastical obedience and to cease with these public manifestations and messages in this parish."

"In this fashion they shall show their necessary adherence to the church, by placing neither private apparitions nor private sayings before the official position of the church," he said.

Obedience won't confirm the authenticity of the visions, but disobedience will demonstrate their falsity.

Catholics must submit to the authority of Christ's Church.

10 posted on 07/07/2006 7:35:24 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: NYer

When I speak to people who are into this hoax, they always say, "But look at the fruits."
When I bring up the number of people who have lost everything following this cult, it shuts them down.

I have an extremely traditional parish, as you know. People there are so into this, it's scary.


11 posted on 07/07/2006 7:44:25 AM PDT by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
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To: smpb
Incredibly, the "Gospa" told the seers that most souls go to Purgatory when they die, the next most to hell, then the least to heaven. Which of course contradicts Jesus' own words in the Gospel:

Matthew 7

13 Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat.

14 How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!

12 posted on 07/07/2006 8:03:07 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: Rutles4Ever

Good point, Rutles4Ever!

Especially when we read what you quoted from Matthew 7. Yet, even priests who write books about Medjugorgie, like one for whom I was a temporary Chaplains' Assistant years ago seem unable to discriminate too well.

I guess what I'm trying to say is sometimes some "seer" at Medjugorgie says something that sounds like it's right out of Alice in Fantasy Land.

In some cases it even sounds like one of those old time Manichaen religions, I think this one was called the "Bogomils," that was in the same geneneral area 700 years (or so) ago.

I remember some Italian guy who wrote books about "Don Camilo," an Italian village priest. When folks asked him years ago, in 1962 or so, why he had stopped writing his books he told them:

"I'm seeing too much mixing of hell and holy water in the Catholic Church here in Italy today, and I want no part of it."

Funny thing, this whole business of Medjugorgie started not too many years later, in nearby Yugoslavia, or so I THINK!

Dennis


13 posted on 07/07/2006 9:04:23 AM PDT by Dennis Paul Morony (Semper Fi!)
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To: Rutles4Ever

How many visionaries have you read/heard about that have taken up a life of fame and fortune after/during their conversations with Our Lady?

Oh that's right, Francisco, Jacinta and Lucia of Fatima; Bernadette of Lourdes; Catherine Laboure of Paris after listening to Mary about the Miraculous Medal.





/s


14 posted on 07/07/2006 9:05:29 AM PDT by It's me
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To: Ozone34

What a coincidence, I was thinking the same thing! It is said that the only part of the body the devil cannot manifest into human form is the feet.


15 posted on 07/07/2006 10:03:00 AM PDT by Gerish (Feed your faith and your doubts will starve to death.)
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To: netmilsmom
When I speak to people who are into this hoax, they always say, "But look at the fruits."

Yes!! Once they have "bought the fruit", they are embarrased to say they were duped.

I have an extremely traditional parish, as you know. People there are so into this, it's scary.

Perhaps you can find some solid and supportive arguments to sway them, at this link.

APPARITIONS OF THE VIRGIN MARY

16 posted on 07/07/2006 10:20:01 AM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: Pyro7480
Serious doubts? As far as the Church is concerned it's a settled issue. Unfortunately, the Vatican is not helping the local bishop put a rest to this, because they consider it to end with the local bishop. The only thing from this point on that would get the Vatican involved is a review AFTER the apparitions ended. Since these apparitions appear to be going on in perpetuity...
17 posted on 07/07/2006 10:27:54 AM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: NYer
Twenty five years is a long time to perpetuate a fraud. Hoaxes usually start to fray at the edges and come apart long before this, especially when children/young adults are involved.

If this is a hoax, it's a darn good one.

18 posted on 07/07/2006 10:28:12 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: Pyro7480

"I have serious doubts about Medjugorje..."

Me, too. One about the Lord, He and His messengers have an economy of speech. Words are precise.


19 posted on 07/07/2006 10:57:50 AM PDT by OpusatFR ( ALEA IACTA EST. We have just crossed the Rubicon.)
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To: marshmallow
If this is a hoax, it's a darn good one.

The local Franciscans have everything to do with that. You would need to study the "Franciscan case" in this whole matter to understand what is really going on. Basically they have been disobedient to Rome concerning a settlement reached in the mid 70's whereby they refuse to give up parishes to the secular clergy under the Bishop.

The then children came around with a practical joke which the Franciscans ran with...

20 posted on 07/07/2006 11:05:51 AM PDT by TotusTuus
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