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NEW ITALIAN CATHEDRAL TO PADRE PIO DESIGNED AS FREEMASONIC TEMPLE
Chiesa Viva authored by Dr. Engineer Franco Addessa ^ | March 2006 | D. M. S.

Posted on 07/19/2006 10:40:38 AM PDT by Youngstown

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To: vox_freedom
I didn't say that it isn't a "secret" society.

Actually, for a "secret" society, it IS pretty OPEN! You can probably find out, right now, who present Masons are. And there are many books, which list rafts of names, of present and past Masons in and out of government. Heck, go read old posts of mine, here and you'll get cross-eyed, from reading the 100s of names I've posted, as to is and has been a Mason. ;^)

101 posted on 07/19/2006 9:33:03 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons

The ignorance and the prejudice in here is amazing.

PHQ, Bethel #67, 1968


102 posted on 07/19/2006 9:34:16 PM PDT by bannie (HILLARY: Not all perversions are sexual.)
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To: Pyro7480
That was long ago and in Mexico! LOL

I have refrained from posting lots and lots of FACTS about all of the truly horrible things Catholics have done to others. Would you like me to start in on that?

You have NO desire to discuss this article, do you? Just trash Masons....right?

103 posted on 07/19/2006 9:36:07 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Pyro7480

You may "like it", but that still does NOT make it true, nor meritorious or valid.


104 posted on 07/19/2006 9:37:29 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: All
This thread has been restored so a respectful discussion of the issues may proceed.

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

105 posted on 07/20/2006 7:43:32 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Coleus

I always thought the whole thinmg about secret societies was funny. In the US Catholic bishops were all hot and bothered about Catholics joining the Masons, so in the 1880s they founded the Knight of Columbus (not a secret society, but has a secret intitiation) Masons aren't exactly a secret society, but initiation to certain degrees are secret.


106 posted on 07/20/2006 10:00:12 AM PDT by brooklyn dave (Jesus a perfect 10 v. Allah 0)
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To: brooklyn dave
it looks as though the mods unlocked this thread. Since the 1884, after the encyclical humanum genus was written catholics all over the world were barred from joining.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18840420_humanum-genus_en.html

IMO, I would characterize both the Knights of Columbus and the Free and Accepted Mason organizations: organizations with secrets not secret organizations
107 posted on 07/20/2006 10:30:03 AM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: Youngstown
Richard Feynman spoke of being admitted to the Arister when in high school. He said that, "Most of their time was spent deciding who was worthy enough to join this group that we are.

He later resigned from the American Association for the Advancement of Science for the same reason.

"The whole thing was rotten!" he said.

108 posted on 07/20/2006 12:05:05 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: Northern Yankee; Victoria Delsoul; saradippity; Phx_RC; TotusTuus; Smartass

ping


109 posted on 07/20/2006 12:33:07 PM PDT by kstewskis (Hey La Raza and illegals....IDENTITY THEFT IS NOT A VICTIMLESS CRIME!!)
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To: FJ290

I have my dad's old copy of his DeMolay bible from when he was a teenager.

Btw, I was baptized and joined the Church in '99.

Thank God.

110 posted on 07/20/2006 12:47:00 PM PDT by kstewskis (Hey La Raza and illegals....IDENTITY THEFT IS NOT A VICTIMLESS CRIME!!)
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To: bannie

Which is why I keep posting history lessons; though that side ignores them completely; unfortunately.


111 posted on 07/20/2006 2:22:55 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: kstewskis
I have my dad's old copy of his DeMolay bible from when he was a teenager.

Btw, I was baptized and joined the Church in '99.

Thank God.

Welcome home!

112 posted on 07/20/2006 2:31:17 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: Tired of Taxes

Contrary to the beliefs of some, there is nothing wrong with Masons.
If fact, there is much that is RIGHT with Masons.


113 posted on 07/20/2006 2:35:32 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: blackie

LOL!

You go, blackie! ;o)


114 posted on 07/20/2006 2:38:06 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: nopardons

"I guess you were right...that history lesson had to be rewritten. :-)"


I had a feeling it would still be fresh in your mind. ;o)
Thank you for your lesson.


115 posted on 07/20/2006 2:39:44 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: Coleus

"ills of freemasonry"


What an interesting statement.

If becoming a Mason is grounds for excommunication, what is the punishment for those who are/were DeMolays?

I've known quite a few who were DeMolays, but are still members of the church.


116 posted on 07/20/2006 2:45:33 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: oldtimer

"As a Freemason I respect the Catholic Church.

Our enemies are the Isalamist killers, and if Chistians don't work very hard together, they will ultimately wipe us out."


Bumping both of your statements!


117 posted on 07/20/2006 2:47:03 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: dixiechick2000
Contrary to the beliefs of some, there is nothing wrong with Masons. If fact, there is much that is RIGHT with Masons.

While the Masons are to be commended on their charitable works, I disagree that there is "nothing" wrong with their organization.

From Scripture Catholic by John Salza:

Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity because it promotes indifferentism. Indifferentism is the heretical belief that all religions are equally legitimate attempts to explain the truth about God which, but for the truth of His existence, are unexplainable. Such a view makes all truths relative and holds that God can be equally pleased with truth and error. Because Christians believe that God has definitively revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, and desires that all men come to the knowledge of this truth, indifferentism is incompatible with Christian faith. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me." (John 14:6).

Freemasonry's teachings and practices also result in syncretism which is the blending of different religious beliefs into a unified whole. This is evidenced most especially by Masonry's religious rituals which gather men of all faiths around a common altar, and place all religious writings along side the Bible on the Masonic altar. This is also demonstrated by the Lodge's prayers and its unique names and symbols for God and heaven. Syncretism is the logical consequence of indifferentism.

The Lodge's practice of requiring its members to swear immoral oaths is also incompatible with Christianity. These oaths require a Christian to swear on the Holy Bible that he will uphold a code of moral conduct that prefers Masons over non-Masons, and to preserve secret passwords and handshakes. Such oaths are gravely immoral because their subject matter is trivial or does not give rise to the necessity of an oath. These oaths are also sworn under symbolic, blood-curdling penalties of physical torture and death called self-curses (e.g., having my throat cut across, and my tongue torn out by its roots). These penalties show a lack of respect for God and amount to blasphemy which is a serious sin.

118 posted on 07/20/2006 2:47:27 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: Youngstown

I have read a lot about Padre Pio, I doubt he would like this church at all. What is the matter with them? That cross is stupid. Padre Pio would want Jesus on it.


119 posted on 07/20/2006 2:47:57 PM PDT by tioga
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To: FJ290; nopardons

She's right about "pings."
A ping is to call someone's attention to the thread.
Anyone who reads your posts is allowed to respond.


"Then why is it that when I go into my personal account the replies that are sent to me are listed under the title "Pings?"


When you have something new, it shows up as "New Posts To You."
Mine is a nice, pretty, bright red. ;o)


120 posted on 07/20/2006 2:50:32 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: FJ290

Could you please provide a link to back up that assertion?


121 posted on 07/20/2006 2:51:30 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: dixiechick2000; oldtimer
"As a Freemason I respect the Catholic Church.

Our enemies are the Isalamist killers, and if Chistians don't work very hard together, they will ultimately wipe us out."

Bumping both of your statements!

Now wait a minute? How can they be your enemies when Freemasonry clearly accepts them among their ranks? Not the Islamist killers of course, but you do support a religion, Muslims/Islam that teaches within its pages of its "unholy book" to kill Christians and Jews.

122 posted on 07/20/2006 2:53:24 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: FJ290

"From Scripture Catholic by John Salza:"


With all due respect, your John Salza is wrong.

He is equating Masons with religion, when it is nothing more than a fraternal organization.

Think Sigma Chi...

The Knights of Columbus IS associated with the Catholic Church.
The Masons aren't associated with ANY church, however it is required that they believe in God.


123 posted on 07/20/2006 2:55:23 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: dixiechick2000
Could you please provide a link to back up that assertion?

Sure:

Scripture Catholic

124 posted on 07/20/2006 2:56:16 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: FJ290

That, my friend, is a Bible with the Masonic emblem on it.


Much in the way my Bible has my name inscribed on it.


125 posted on 07/20/2006 2:57:58 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: FJ290

Thank you, but I was looking for a site that is a tad more objective.


126 posted on 07/20/2006 2:59:23 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: vox_freedom

"...why do Freemasons who are government officials, public corporation officers, or political figures refuse to disclose their membership?"


That is news to me.
My daddy is a 33rd degree Scottish Rite Mason, KYCH - York Rite Mason, among many other things.
He has NEVER kept his membership a secret, nor has any of his fellow Masons.


127 posted on 07/20/2006 3:03:07 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: nopardons

LOL!


Bump!


128 posted on 07/20/2006 3:04:15 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: dixiechick2000

:-)


129 posted on 07/20/2006 3:05:33 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Pyro7480

"In fact, I pray for the conversion of the Masons. Don't presume to tell me to go to confession, because I know my need of that sacrament."


It would be nice to pray for their health and well-being.
But, please don't presume to pray for their conversion.


130 posted on 07/20/2006 3:07:02 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: dixiechick2000; nopardons
He is equating Masons with religion, when it is nothing more than a fraternal organization.

That's doesn't appear to be the case. From a Masonic website:

Freemasonry confirms and complements religious faith and church participation. The principles of our Fraternity are based on the same moral absolutes that form the foundation of all true faith. Every Mason must believe in a Supreme Being. He must strive to live morally in accordance with the highest standards of individual character and social conduct. Consequently, every Mason abides by the "Golden Rule," however stated, and labors in all aspects of his life to fulfill Freemasonry's goals of charity in both senses of the word---philanthropy to those in need and loving brotherhood for all the members of humankind.

They fail to see that Masons are invariable churchgoing men who extend the precepts of their faith beyond their sabbath to every day of their lives. They work within their churches and in their communities for the betterment of their fellowmen. Masons, in fact, go beyond narrow sectarianism and limiting dogma. They agree with the statement of the famous statesman and writer Edmund Burke: "The body of all true religion consists, to be sure, in obedience to the will of the Sovereign of the world, in a confidence in His declarations, and in imitation of His perfection."

But what are "His declarations"? They are not, Masons believe, the passing credos of religious sects or cults. Rather, they are the inspired wisdom contained in the Bible, the Talmud, the Koran, the Bhagavad-Gita or any of the other Great Books of Faith that have been universally recognized as man's best guides to happiness on this world and reward in the next. Freemasonry, therefore, welcomes to its ranks Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and all good men of whatever religion who truly aspire to live accordingly to the Creator's will.

And I might add that the above truly proves how Freemasonry promotes religious indifferentism and religious religious syncretism.

Freemasonry and Religion

131 posted on 07/20/2006 3:07:19 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: brooklyn dave

Dear brooklyn dave,

The Knights of Columbus wasn't started by the Catholic bishops. Our Order was started in 1882 by a parish priest, Fr. Michael J. McGivney, without any input from the hierarchy.

I wouldn't characterize the ceremonials of the Knights of Columbus as being secret. However, a Knight may not generally disclose the ceremonials honorably.


sitetest


132 posted on 07/20/2006 3:08:05 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: kstewskis

And it differs from any other bible, HOW?


133 posted on 07/20/2006 3:08:19 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons; FJ290

"Both Houses of Congress open each session with a prayer and if I am not mistaken there ARE bibles there. Are both Houses of Congress religious bodies? Do they support a single religion? Are they a religion?"


Excellent point.
Don't forget that the Supreme Court does this, as well.

I don't know WHY it is so hard for them to grasp this very simple concept.


134 posted on 07/20/2006 3:09:38 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: dixiechick2000

It was, but I didn't write the entire thing. I guess I will have to do that, soon. I just wish that more people would read what I post. LOL


135 posted on 07/20/2006 3:09:38 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: dixiechick2000

We are a nation which won its freedom by the strength of a great many Masons.


20 GREATEST NAMES OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION

John Adams - Spoke favorably of Freemasonry -- never joined
Samuel Adams - (Close and principle associate of Hancock, Revere & other Masons
Ethan Allen - Mason
Edmund Burke - Mason
John Claypoole - Mason
William Daws - Mason
Benjamin Franklin - Mason
Nathan Hale - No evidence of Masonic connections
John Hancock - Mason
Benjamin Harrison - No evidence of Masonic connections
Patrick Henry - No evidence of Masonic connections
Thomas Jefferson - Deist with some evidence of Masonic connections
John Paul Jones - Mason
Francis Scott Key - No evidence of Masonic connections
Robert Livingston - Mason
James Madison - Some evidence of Masonic membership
Thomas Paine - Humanist
Paul Revere - Mason
Colonel Benjamin Tupper - Mason
George Washington - Mason
Daniel Webster - Some evidence of Masonic connections

Hate 'em if you want, but they sacraficed a great deal for all of us.





136 posted on 07/20/2006 3:10:06 PM PDT by bannie (HILLARY: Not all perversions are sexual.)
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To: dixiechick2000
That, my friend, is a Bible with the Masonic emblem on it. Much in the way my Bible has my name inscribed on it.

Well my friend, as I told you on another thread where we were having a Mason debate, it's more than an emblem.. LOL! I don't know if you remember or not, but I told you and some others that my wife picked up one that looked exactly like that at some sale she went to.. either estate sale or garage sale. She wanted to see what was in it as she is very interested in history, etc.. In this particular Bible, it has a lot of information about the Masonic Rites and their beliefs. You won't be finding that in your KJV! We also have a KJV in the house for historical purposes. Trust me, it's not the same.

137 posted on 07/20/2006 3:12:08 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: FJ290
To add some historical context, the various and sundry titles given to both Mary and Jesus, were taken from pagan gods and goddesses. Does that negate those titles? If not, why not? If so, then why does the Catholic church still use them?
138 posted on 07/20/2006 3:13:29 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: dixiechick2000

Thanks! :-)


139 posted on 07/20/2006 3:13:58 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: FJ290
I've been a Freemason for 43 years,and have never met a Muslim Freemason.

I do believe that if we had millions of Muslim Freemasons, things would be quiet every where.

For the simple reasons that Freemasons teach peace, harmony and brotherhood, and the obligation requires that we do not harm each other.

Hope this answers your question.

140 posted on 07/20/2006 3:16:14 PM PDT by oldtimer
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To: Pyro7480
Please don't pray for the conversion of Masons. Would you like others to pray that YOU convert to Judaism or one of the Protestant sects? And besides which, Freemasonry is NOT a religion...it is a FRATERNAL ORGANIZATION !
141 posted on 07/20/2006 3:17:59 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: FJ290

I can understand why you are having trouble grasping the concept, as you are Catholic.

However, there are those of us who are Christian, but not Catholic, who believe that other Christians will go to heaven.

As for the rest of it, it shows only that one has to be a believer in God for admittance.
It doesn't PROMOTE "religious indifferentism and religious religious syncretism."
Rather, it show that it is inclusive of ALL who believe in God.

It IS a Fraternal organization, no matter what you think.


142 posted on 07/20/2006 3:18:01 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: bannie

Thank you for your excellent post, bannie!


Bump!


143 posted on 07/20/2006 3:19:06 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: dixiechick2000

Some of the greatest, most moral men I've ever known have been Masons.

:-)


144 posted on 07/20/2006 3:20:26 PM PDT by bannie (HILLARY: Not all perversions are sexual.)
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To: FJ290
But it is NOT a religion.

You are having a problem with Freemasonry wanting it's membership to be good, moral people? WHY?

145 posted on 07/20/2006 3:21:17 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: oldtimer

BTTT!


146 posted on 07/20/2006 3:21:32 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (There ought to be one day-- just one-- when there is open season on senators. ~~ Will Rogers)
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To: dixiechick2000
Yes, that too.

When all of these entities are considered to be religious bodies, then and only then, I might begin to entertain the idea that Masonry is a religion" junk.

147 posted on 07/20/2006 3:23:38 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons

Freemasonry has a comprehensive belief system combined with rituals. That by definition is a religion. Stop playing semantic games.

So what. If you are a Freemason. Big whoop.

Tolerance, give me a break. Mason love talking about tolerance, but they don't know the first thing about practicing it themselves.

Fine, free association is your right, and we have the same right. But we also have the right to resist the Masonic heresy.


148 posted on 07/20/2006 3:40:21 PM PDT by pravknight (Liberalism under the guise of magisterial teaching is still heresy)
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To: bannie
Hate 'em if you want, but they sacraficed a great deal for all of us.

Who is saying they hate anyone? So what if some of those men were Masons? Some of our founding fathers were Deists and several were agnostics. They were made up of a mix of men from various religious or non-religious beliefs.

Thomas Jefferson said to his nephew:

"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

Monticello Report

In essence, whether they were Masons, agnostics, Deists, whatever, they were men with foibles and shortcomings as we all have.

John Adams - Spoke favorably of Freemasonry -- never joined

Huh?? Which John Adams are they talking about here because John Quincy Adams spoke out against the Masonson his father's behalf:

His son, John Quincy Adams, wrote, August 22, 1831 of him: “There was nothing in the Masonic Institution worthy of his seeking to be associated with it. So said at that time the Grand Master of Masons, Jeremy Gridley; and such have repeatedly heard my father say was the reason why he never joined the lodge. The use of the name of Washington, to give an odor of sanctity to the institution as it now stands exposed to the world, is in my opinion as unwarrantable as that of my father’s name.”

149 posted on 07/20/2006 3:40:31 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: Unam Sanctam

Moral and cultural relativism is what Freemasonry is all about.

Being a Conservative and a Freemason is a bit like being a Dittohead and a member of the Earth Liberation Front.


150 posted on 07/20/2006 3:43:12 PM PDT by pravknight (Liberalism under the guise of magisterial teaching is still heresy)
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