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NEW ITALIAN CATHEDRAL TO PADRE PIO DESIGNED AS FREEMASONIC TEMPLE
Chiesa Viva authored by Dr. Engineer Franco Addessa ^ | March 2006 | D. M. S.

Posted on 07/19/2006 10:40:38 AM PDT by Youngstown

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To: FJ290
You're new here, but not all that new, so you should know, that anyone is allowed to answer any reply, on any thread and FWIW, that is NOT a "ping".

I suggest that you read and digest all that you and pavknight have written to this thread. Yes, someone actually DID say that Christian-Catholic; or implied it.

I said that you just might want to leave FR since it did NOT claim that Catholicism is THE only faith. FR tolerates ALL; even the unbeliever. Well, Freemasonry welcomes ALL who believe in GOD; they don't accept those who don't...which makes them even less tolerant than FR. But YOU have a problem with that and that really is your problem; not Freemasonry's!

51 posted on 07/19/2006 7:35:09 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: elc

The fascists in the middle east have co-opted their religion to promote their lunacy. The IRA has done the same thing with Catholicism. I doubt a tenth of them attend Mass even yearly.


52 posted on 07/19/2006 7:39:34 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter
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To: 5Madman2

You'll have to read the 5 or more encyclicals referring to freemasonry.


53 posted on 07/19/2006 7:54:18 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: nopardons
I am a Christian and most assuredly do NOT believe that the Catholic church is the ONLY "true religion"! Catholics, believe it or not, are NOT the ONLY Christians.

Catholics have the right to their beliefs in a free society, and one of those beliefs is that the Catholic Church possesses the fullness of truth revealed in Jesus Christ to his apostles, while our separated brethren possess parts of that truth. Obviously, if a group teaches that Catholic teaching in this area is false, then Catholics should avoid that group. There is a difference between a group not taking a position on religious truth and actively teaching that the tenet of a particular faith is wrong.

54 posted on 07/19/2006 7:55:14 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: nopardons
Well, Freemasonry welcomes ALL who believe in GOD; they don't accept those who don't...which makes them even less tolerant than FR. But YOU have a problem with that and that really is your problem; not Freemasonry's!

Really? You think it's only "my" problem? Wrong! There are other churches that don't agree with Freemasonry. The Catholic Church doesn't stand alone in this. Here's a list for you, but they didn't include the Greek Orthodox. They should be on there too as they don't allow their members to join the Masons:

* Methodist Church of England * Wesleyan Methodist Church * Russian Orthodox Church * Assemblies of God * Church of the Nazarene * Orthodox Presbyterian Church * Reformed Presbyterian Church * Evangelical Mennonite Church * Church of Scotland * Grace Brethren * Roman Catholic Church * Christian Reformed Church in America * Evangelical Mennonite Church * Synod Anglican Church of England * Free Church of Scotland * General Association of Regular Baptist Churches * Independent Fundamentalist Churches of America * The Evangelical Lutheran Synod * Baptist Union of Scotland * Lutheran Church Missouri Synod * Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod * Presbyterian Church in America

55 posted on 07/19/2006 7:55:54 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: nopardons
You're new here, but not all that new, so you should know, that anyone is allowed to answer any reply, on any thread and FWIW, that is NOT a "ping".

Then why is it that when I go into my personal account the replies that are sent to me are listed under the title "Pings?"

The header in the upper right corner says "Home/Forum/Pings/Mail..." When I click on Pings, that's where I find posts sent to me as well as posts that I have made.

56 posted on 07/19/2006 8:02:38 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: FJ290
If you can't receive communion, aren't you in effect Ex-COMMUNION-Cated?

No, because excommunication deprives one of the common spiritual prayers of the Church (St. Paul speaks of it as "delivering one up to Satan"), not just participation in the sacraments. Thus there is a real difference between the juridical punishments of interdict and excommunication.

The commission of any grave sin (such as joining the Freemasons) means that one should not receive holy Communion before having confessed and received absolution, but this doesn't constitute even a legal punishment: the sin, after all, is imposed by yourself and not ecclesiastical authority. And so it's not the same as excommunication. Though if you live in the diocese of Lincoln you will still be excommunicated if you join the Freemasons!

57 posted on 07/19/2006 8:04:01 PM PDT by gbcdoj (Destruction is thy own, O Israel; thy help is only in Me.)
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To: FJ290
Okay, here's the deal..................

PING LISTS and even single "pings" alert someone/s who are NOT already on the thread, that they should come and take a look at it.

When someone replies to a post YOU make, it shows up in your "PING" section; however, you were NOT "pinged" at all; you were replied to and yes, there is a difference.

Your own posts also show up in your own "PING" section, but you haven't "pinged" yourself; you've replied to another person or just to a thread.

58 posted on 07/19/2006 8:10:54 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: uglybiker

Maybe they read The Da Vinci Code and thought it was real.


59 posted on 07/19/2006 8:11:38 PM PDT by GVnana (Former Alias: GVgirl)
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To: FJ290
I have NO idea where you are getting that garbage from, but my METHODIST minister was not only a Mason, the church hall was used for Masonic meetings in!

Norman Vincent Peale was a Mason!

There are Protestant ministers, members of FR, who are not only Masons, but very high degreed ones and no, they haven't been kicked out of their respective churches.

You're new here, but this junk has been refuted, handily, for many years on FR. You are NOT going to be allowed to impugn, smear, libel, nor lie about Freemasonry here, on FR. You may hate them all you want to, in private, but start with this stuff here and you WILL be not only refuted, but beaten to a pulp with accurate facts.

And BTW...there are NO "Masonic signs" in that VERY ugly church.

60 posted on 07/19/2006 8:19:08 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Unam Sanctam
Freemasonry is NOT a religion and neither is it affiliated with ANY religion. It is a FRATERNAL ORGANIZATION and as such, neither condemns nor proselytizes for any religion at all.

If Catholics want to keep throwing hissy fits about the fact that Masons tolerate and have free association with men of different religions, let them do it off FR! And since FR is also a group of peoples who are NOT all Catholic, perhaps those who feel so strongly against such free association, should just go off to another site, where they can converse and mingle with ONLY other Catholics.

Yes, we all have the right to our own beliefs; however, once those beliefs become libelous and worse, they are NOT to be tolerated in polite society.

61 posted on 07/19/2006 8:25:57 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Youngstown
Declaration on Masonic Associations (1983)

It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church's decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous code.

This sacred congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance is due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

Therefore, the Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and, therefore, membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful, who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the declaration of this sacred congregation issued Feb. 17,1981.

In an audience granted to the undersigned cardinal prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this sacred congregation.

Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, November 26, 1983

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger,
Prefect
Father Jerome Hamer, O.P. Titular Archbishop of Lorium, Secretary

62 posted on 07/19/2006 8:30:39 PM PDT by vox_freedom
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To: nopardons; pravknight
Exactly so and that poster owes ALL Masons, living and dead and all of their extended families a PUBLIC apology! He probably should denounce his American citizenship ( if he is an American ), because this nation was founded by a whole lot of Masons, who also enriched this nation, for centuries. Oh yes, and he should immediately stop using American money, because Masonic symbology abounds on it.

He owes no apology. It is true that many of the Founding Fathers were Masons, and we owe them this nation. But that doesn't change the fact that Masons weren't always a benign organization, even in this country.

63 posted on 07/19/2006 8:34:33 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Love is the fusion of two souls in one in order to bring about mutual perfection." -S. Terese Andes)
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To: gbcdoj; Theoden
No, because excommunication deprives one of the common spiritual prayers of the Church (St. Paul speaks of it as "delivering one up to Satan"), not just participation in the sacraments. Thus there is a real difference between the juridical punishments of interdict and excommunication.

Hmm... what about this?

The adequate and general effect of excommunication is sufficiently evident thus far, from the explanation of the definition. In particular, the definitely classified canonical effects follow: exclusion from divine services of the Church, deprivation of the Sacraments (and sometimes sacramentals); exclusion from the public prayers of the Church, either by way of satisfaction or impetration; loss of the right to participate in legal acts of the Church; loss of income from ecclesiastical office; and loss of right to social intercourse in case of vitandus. Canon law distinguishes two fora or courts: the sacramental, or the tribunal of Penance, and the non-sacramental, either public or private. When the penitent appears in the sacramental forum, the Roman Ritual prescribes the same formula for absolution from excommunication as that used for remission of sin. In the non-sacramental forum, since absolution is a jurisdictional act, any formula expressing the effect intended may be employed. Following the general law of jurisdiction as it applies to censures, excommunication may be taken away by the one who had inflicted it, his superior, delegate, or successor.

Source: New Catholic Dictionary

Deprivation of the Sacraments, i.e., Communion seems like it would fit within the confines of Canon law mentioned above for

Theodon mentioned this link earlier and I found this interesting too:

The present legislation of the Church is contained in canon 1374:

Can. 1374 A person who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty; one who promotes or takes office in such an association is to be punished with an interdict.

In the previous Code (can 2335), Masonry is explicitly mentioned. As the declaration of 26 November 1983 explains, the omission of the name "Mason" in the present Church law is due to an "editorial criterion". Masonic associations are thus included under a more general heading which could include any other association conspiring against the Church (e.g. a specific communist party).

Clarification Concerning Catholics Becoming Freemasons

This taken into account along with the statements from our current Pope when he was Cardinal Ratzinger (which Theoden also posted)leads me to believe not much has changed regarding excommunication on Freemasonry. What do you think?

64 posted on 07/19/2006 8:35:56 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: Pyro7480
He liked ALL Masons to NAZIS! For THAT, alone, he needs to apologize!

Not all of any group is good. Would you like me to start making a list of people who were born Catholic?

The entire premise of this thread, which has been completely over looked, is that this new, VERY ugly church is filled with Masonic imagery. It isn't.

65 posted on 07/19/2006 8:39:17 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: uglybiker; nopardons; FJ290; pravknight; Theoden; AlaninSA; Coleus; Eastbound; oldtimer; ...
http://www.consecration.com/masons.html

TEN REASONS CATHOLICS CANNOT BE MASONS

Freemasonry, contrary to public perception, is a secret society rather than a fraternity. Its principles are fundamentally contrary to the Catholic faith and explicitly deny key tenets of Christianity. Below are ten reasons why Catholics cannot be Masons or participate in their activities.

1). The Holy See on Nov. 26, 1983, at the direction of the Pope, issued a "Declaration on Masonic Associations" restating the Church's position condemning the basic principles of Freemasonry. It also states that Catholics who join Masonic organizations are in a state of grave sin and are automatically denied Holy Communion.

2). God as described in Masonic works is an impersonal "Great Architect of the Universeî," not the personal God of the Patriarchs, the One True God of Revelation, the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit.

3). Masonic writings specifically deny that God has revealed Himself and His truths to us, or that He ever established a Church.

4). In Masonry Jesus Christ is portrayed as merely a man, a great teacher, on a par with Buddha or Mohammed and His Divinity is denied.

5). The Trinity is denied and compared to the "trinitiesî"of pagan religions. The Holy Spirit is blasphemed by Masonry's denial of the Divine Inspiration of Scripture.

6). Christianity is considered a derivative of ancient pagan religions and like all religions deliberately ladens itself with error. God is portrayed as a deceiver who leads many men away from truth as not all are worthy of it.

7). All truth is relative according to Masonry, thereby rejecting objective, absolute truth and therefore the dogmas of the Catholic faith.

8). Freemasonry is portrayed as the foundation of all religion and it is built on Naturalism, a system of belief that makes human nature and human reason supreme in all things.

9). At the various degrees when an oath is sworn, even the initial ones, it is a blood oath swearing for example, "binding myself by no less penalty than that of having my throat cut from ear to ear, my tongue torn out by its roots, and buried in the sands of the sea..." This is a real oath sworn with one's hand on the Bible or Torah, etc.

10). One can easily be deceived by Masonry's rituals and symbols that an objective transformation of man is being carried out. This will lead one away from the workings of God's grace especially manifested in the Sacraments instituted by Christ. Remember, Masonry denies Christís Divinity and therefore His role as our Savior.

66 posted on 07/19/2006 8:41:05 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Love is the fusion of two souls in one in order to bring about mutual perfection." -S. Terese Andes)
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To: nopardons
Freemasonry is NOT a religion and neither is it affiliated with ANY religion. It is a FRATERNAL ORGANIZATION and as such, neither condemns nor proselytizes for any religion at all.

That's kind of double speak there when in one post you say that they must all believe in God to join, but in this post you say it isn't a religious organization? If it isn't a religious organization, there would be absolutely NO mention of God. For example, I don't have to tell the YMCA that I believe in God to join.

67 posted on 07/19/2006 8:44:23 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: nopardons; pravknight
Oh come now! Here's what pravknight said:

For a Catholic to support Freemasonry in any way is a bit like a Jew to support the Nazis.

You've heard of metaphors and similes before, right? The Nazis tried to destroy the Jews and their culture in Europe. The Freemasons contributed to the destruction of the Catholic culture and order in Europe in the 19th century. You see the point he was getting at?

68 posted on 07/19/2006 8:45:48 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Love is the fusion of two souls in one in order to bring about mutual perfection." -S. Terese Andes)
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To: Pyro7480

In a word, rubbish!


69 posted on 07/19/2006 8:46:08 PM PDT by Eastbound
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To: Eastbound

Oh, is that all you're going to say to in response? Are you going to explain?


70 posted on 07/19/2006 8:47:10 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Love is the fusion of two souls in one in order to bring about mutual perfection." -S. Terese Andes)
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To: Pyro7480
Freemasonry is NOT a religion, does NOT purport to be a religion, and has NO religious connections at all it is a

FRATERNAL ORGANIZATION !

Skull and Bones is a college fraternity ( well, not really, it is an "eating club", but oh what the hey...LOL ) and it is also *gasp* "secret". So are most fraternities and sororities.

The Elk, the Moose, et al are likewise "secret" fraternal organizations.

And none of what you posted has anything whatsoever to do with the topic of this ridiculous thread, BTW. That church is UGLY, but there are NO Masonic symbols in it. Trying to say otherwise, is just patently ridiculous and offensive to boot.

71 posted on 07/19/2006 8:47:10 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons

Wow, it seems like I've struck a nerve. You're right in a way, it's not a religion, because it's about naturalism.


72 posted on 07/19/2006 8:48:41 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Love is the fusion of two souls in one in order to bring about mutual perfection." -S. Terese Andes)
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To: nopardons
He liked ALL Masons to NAZIS! For THAT, alone, he needs to apologize!

No he did not. Please look at the post again:

For a Catholic to support Freemasonry in any way is a bit like a Jew to support the Nazis.

Freemasonry has in its history sworn to wipe out Catholicism as the Nazis wanted to wipe out the Jews.

It's an analogy that you don't go get chummy with the very people who want to destroy you.

73 posted on 07/19/2006 8:49:22 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: nopardons

The article at the beginning of the thread could be silly, but it lead to a real issue.


74 posted on 07/19/2006 8:49:38 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Love is the fusion of two souls in one in order to bring about mutual perfection." -S. Terese Andes)
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To: Pyro7480

Nope. I don't debate or pass info to parroting bigots.


75 posted on 07/19/2006 8:49:48 PM PDT by Eastbound
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To: Pyro7480
You've heard of metaphors and similes before, right? The Nazis tried to destroy the Jews and their culture in Europe. The Freemasons contributed to the destruction of the Catholic culture and order in Europe in the 19th century. You see the point he was getting at?

Boy I do Pyro! I just posted nearly what you said above.

76 posted on 07/19/2006 8:51:20 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: Eastbound

LOL! If all you can throw around is epithets like a raging leftist, you're not worth my time.


77 posted on 07/19/2006 8:52:05 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Love is the fusion of two souls in one in order to bring about mutual perfection." -S. Terese Andes)
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To: FJ290
Boy I do Pyro! I just posted nearly what you said above.

Are you a M.I.?

78 posted on 07/19/2006 8:53:24 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Love is the fusion of two souls in one in order to bring about mutual perfection." -S. Terese Andes)
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To: nopardons
Freemasonry is NOT a religion, does NOT purport to be a religion, and has NO religious connections at all it is a FRATERNAL ORGANIZATION

Really? What's this then?

And this?


79 posted on 07/19/2006 8:59:40 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: nopardons
If Catholics want to keep throwing hissy fits about the fact that Masons tolerate and have free association with men of different religions, let them do it off FR!

Where have I or anyone else on this thread remotely said that the Catholic objection to Freemasonry is that those of different religions are in free association? If you want to toss around accusation of libel so casually, why don't you look in the mirror as you seem to be libeling Catholics? Certainly I didn't say that. Catholics understand that Freemasons teach principles contrary to the Catholic faith, such as that the Catholic Church is not the one true religion (presumably worship of Isis and Osiris and such is equally valid). If that is true, then it is perfectly reasonable for Catholics to object to participation in the Masons, whether or not it is a religious organization. If the Masons do not teach that but merely are neutral on the relative truth of different religions, then you could show that. One could object to the substantive points by arguing that Masonic beliefs and principles do not contradict Catholic beliefs. You have not done so, but rather make up a spurious criticism of Masons that no Catholic has ever made. Perhaps there is a difference between modern US masons and those of Europe in previous centuries, but as it is a secretive organization, it is hard to tell. Being from a Protestant background with several ancestors who were Masons, I can with confidence state that the cultural milieu of my ancestors who were Masons was very much prejudiced against the Catholic Church, so I would not be surprised if the Masons, at least in earlier years, did see the Catholic Church as an enemy to enlightenment and progress.

On the issue of this church design, however, I think it silly to go around trying to interpret ambiguous design elements as Masonic. It seems a bit paranoid -- if a design can be interpreted compatibly with orthodox belief, then give it the benefit of the doubt. And while I am second to no one in decrying the wreckovation of historic churches, I don't mind a certain amount of architectural and design experimentation in new churches.

80 posted on 07/19/2006 9:00:03 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: Pyro7480
"you're not worth my time."

Thank God for small favors.

81 posted on 07/19/2006 9:00:12 PM PDT by Eastbound
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To: nopardons

If Freemasonry is not a secret society as you claim, why do Freemasons who are government officials, public corporation officers, or political figures refuse to disclose their membership?


82 posted on 07/19/2006 9:00:20 PM PDT by vox_freedom
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To: nopardons
You may hate them all you want to, in private, but start with this stuff here and you WILL be not only refuted, but beaten to a pulp with accurate facts.

You want to start clubbing around "accurate facts"? How about this?

Mexican Masonry - Politics and Religion

So, this Masonic website admits that Masonic presidents of Mexico maintained a "strongly anticlerical" policy. It was this policy that was responsible for the persecution of the Catholic religion in that country, and the execution of Catholic priests. I can go on....

83 posted on 07/19/2006 9:00:23 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Love is the fusion of two souls in one in order to bring about mutual perfection." -S. Terese Andes)
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To: Pyro7480
Are you a M.I.?

I don't know. I can't commit to it because I don't know what the acronym means, LOL!

84 posted on 07/19/2006 9:01:17 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: FJ290

You got FR mail


85 posted on 07/19/2006 9:02:37 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Love is the fusion of two souls in one in order to bring about mutual perfection." -S. Terese Andes)
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To: Eastbound
Thank God for small favors.

Just a little charity. ;-)

86 posted on 07/19/2006 9:04:04 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Love is the fusion of two souls in one in order to bring about mutual perfection." -S. Terese Andes)
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To: Pyro7480
And you've heard of the net rule, where whoever invokes Hitler or the Nazi loses; right?

Rather than use your side's vile tactics, I won't make up a disgusting "metaphor" ( which wshat you're claiming to be one, isn't...it's just a spurious lie and insulting ), but if I did, it would be MUCH closer to the mark.

Many Catholics have been Masons. None of them were thrown into concentration camps, beaten, tattooed, and/or gassed to death by Masons! Neither were they ever asked to foresake their religion; nor were they shunned for it.

The Masons did NOT "contribute to the destruction of the Catholic culture ( whatever THAT is supposed to mean ) and order in Europe in the 19th century." The point that you are supposedly getting at, is a pack of lies.

If what you claim is true, then there would have been no kings or queens or emperors in Catholic countries, in the 20th century. Hmmm........well, Emperor Franz Joseph was still the Emperor of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, until the end of WW I and it most assuredly was NOT a Mason, who killed his heir, Franz Ferdinand and his mechanistic wife in Sarajevo!

Just WHAT is "Catholic culture", BTW? There are Catholics in Germany and Spain, but even though Spain has sometimes had Germanic rulers, I wouldn't say that they shared the same culture. Even before the REFORMATION, when all of Christendom was Catholic, you would be hard pressed to say that all of them shared the same culture, any more than you could claim that they all shared the same language and the same food.

87 posted on 07/19/2006 9:04:25 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Pyro7480

Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal!


88 posted on 07/19/2006 9:07:44 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: nopardons
And you've heard of the net rule, where whoever invokes Hitler or the Nazi loses; right?

As a general rule of thumb, yes. In fact, I like the Burkha/Taliban corollary to that law, but that is for a different discussion. But I think the comparison is apt.

Just WHAT is "Catholic culture", BTW? There are Catholics in Germany and Spain, but even though Spain has sometimes had Germanic rulers, I wouldn't say that they shared the same culture. Even before the REFORMATION, when all of Christendom was Catholic, you would be hard pressed to say that all of them shared the same culture, any more than you could claim that they all shared the same language and the same food.

I'm referring to the concept of Christendom.

89 posted on 07/19/2006 9:07:51 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Love is the fusion of two souls in one in order to bring about mutual perfection." -S. Terese Andes)
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To: FJ290
Nope, it really isn't "double speak" at all.

Men who want to join Freemasonry must be of GOOD CHARATER. Part of that, is their belief in GOD. Masons don't care if the man is a Jew or a Christian, so whether he believes that Jesus is the Messiah or not, isn't the point.

The YMCA would have allowed Jack the Ripper to join....the Masons wouldn't! :-)

90 posted on 07/19/2006 9:08:22 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Religion Moderator
Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal!

I heartily agree, but I wasn't the one who used the word "bigots," as was used above in #75.

91 posted on 07/19/2006 9:09:13 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Love is the fusion of two souls in one in order to bring about mutual perfection." -S. Terese Andes)
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To: Eastbound

Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal!


92 posted on 07/19/2006 9:09:23 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Pyro7480

It doesn't matter whether you were provoked.


93 posted on 07/19/2006 9:11:43 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Pyro7480
The article is a delusional piece of utter garbage, which NONE of you want to discuss. The ONLY thing you want to do, is to keep; repeating slander and bigoted libel against Masons. If THAT really was the "point" of this thread, then it should NEVER have been posted.

If you feel that the "real" issue" is besmirching and impugtnimng Masons, then I suggest that YOU have a very big problem and should go to confession ASAP.

94 posted on 07/19/2006 9:12:33 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: vox_freedom
I've never heard of a Mason who was not proud of his affiliation. Perhaps someone might not wear his pin while in your proximity; but--with the ignorant flaming going on in here--I can understand why.
95 posted on 07/19/2006 9:12:54 PM PDT by bannie (HILLARY: Not all perversions are sexual.)
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To: nopardons
If you feel that the "real" issue" is besmirching and impugtnimng Masons, then I suggest that YOU have a very big problem and should go to confession ASAP.

I have a problem with Freemasonry, not with Masons. In fact, I pray for the conversion of the Masons. Don't presume to tell me to go to confession, because I know my need of that sacrament.

96 posted on 07/19/2006 9:15:26 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Love is the fusion of two souls in one in order to bring about mutual perfection." -S. Terese Andes)
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To: FJ290
Those are representations of GOD's word and as such, highly valued by Masons. But no, it is NOT a religion.

Both Houses of Congress open each session with a prayer and if I am not mistaken there ARE bibles there. Are both Houses of Congress religious bodies? Do they support a single religion? Are they a religion?

97 posted on 07/19/2006 9:16:00 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons; All
This guideline applies to everyone posting on the Religion Forum: Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.

If posters continue to make it personal on this thread, it will be locked and some may have a time-out to cool off.

98 posted on 07/19/2006 9:17:12 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: nopardons
Men who want to join Freemasonry must be of GOOD CHARATER. Part of that, is their belief in GOD. Masons don't care if the man is a Jew or a Christian, so whether he believes that Jesus is the Messiah or not, isn't the point.

Can you explain to me then the pictures I posted earlier? Why the Masonic Bible? Why the Bible on their altars if they aren't a religious organization?

99 posted on 07/19/2006 9:17:56 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: Unam Sanctam
You claim that I am painting with far too broad a brush, yet you say that the Protestant members of your family, who were Masons, didn't like Catholics...as if THAT is true for ALL Masons. Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft..........

There has been NOTHING, but Masonbashing, by Catholics, on this thread and GOD forbid, any Mason or member of a Masonic family, dare to refute your lies, and they just get more of them. I'd say that this proves just which amongst us is the intolerant; not to mention vile and nasty.

I have stated the very genesis of the Catholic's church's anti-Masonry views. I bet none of you bothered to read a word of it.

Yes, Freemasonry DOES teach something counter to Catholic teachings...that all men are equal and that men of good character should be viewed as "brothers".

When Freemasonry was begun, until quite recently, Catholics were forbidden to go inside another religions' church or temple; even to attend a funeral or a wedding, where they were not asked to participate in any religious activities. They couldn't even go into a church hall to attend an MYF ( Methodist Youth Fellowship ) dance, where absolutely NOTHING religious was going on. This, BTW, was in 1957.

At least, in your final paragraph, you got around to talking about the article that heads this thread. And no, I see NOTHING that could even vaguely be called "Masonic symbology" in the picture.

100 posted on 07/19/2006 9:29:25 PM PDT by nopardons
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