Patriarch Sfeir arriving back in Beirut on July 20. Wish AP would have snapped a picture of McCarrick.
Posted on 08/10/2006 10:20:02 AM PDT by NYer
Beirut (AsiaNews) – Cardinal Theodore McCarrick is in Lebanon on behalf of the American bishops to express solidarity with the Lebanese people and to assess, from close at hand, possible ways of helping them as they endure Israeli air raids and a displacement crisis.
Cardinal McCarrick, the Archbishop Emeritus of Washington, yesterday landed by helicopter in Beirut airport, where he was welcomed by the Vatican Nuncio Mgr Luigi Gatti and Mgr Roland Abou Jaude, the delegate of the Assembly of Patriarchs and Bishops of Lebanon. He immediately went to visit the Shiite neighbourhood of Nabha that was destroyed by Israeli air raids and later he went to the headquarters of Caritas Lebanon. In a meeting with Fr Louis Samara, chairman of that body, he gave assurance of the concern and support of the American bishops for the people of Lebanon.
In the afternoon, Cardinal McCarrick went to Dimane, the summer seat of the patriarchate, where he met Cardinal Sfeir for more than an hour and a half.
AsiaNews sources revealed that in the dialogue, Cardinal McCarrick expressed his condemnation as well as that of all the American bishops for the violence that has destroyed Lebanon. Patriarch Sfeir gave him a dossier about the country situation.
A visit by Cardinal Roger Etchegaray, President Emeritus of Justice and Peace, is scheduled for next week. The visit of the French cardinal will be of a more official nature. He will meet not only Catholic bishops but also the highest-ranking state officials: President Emile Lahoud, Prime Minister Fouad Siniora and the Parliament Speaker Nabih Berri.
Patriarch Sfeir arriving back in Beirut on July 20. Wish AP would have snapped a picture of McCarrick.
Maybe there is some innocent explanation?
Hardly. The Vatican, and hence its bishops, have been calling for a cease fire since the first bombs were dropped. Lebanon is a peaceful country that is now being destroyed by Israel. This is a show of solidarity and support by the USCCB for the Patriarch of the Maronite Catholic Church.
Thanks for your explanation. Now I feel so much better. Love and peace for everyone, even those who wish to kill us.
" == Lebanon is a peaceful country that is now being destroyed by Israel. == "
Yes, your kind of a peaceful country invades a sovereign nation, kills, kidnaps, rains rockets by the thousands on the civilian population of that country, then claims its innocence because it has failed to put an end to this outrage.
Lebanon has let Hezbollah meld its offensive military operations with impunity into its own population, then protests loudly when Israel defends itself.
Hezbollah continues these well-defined and well-understood WAR CRIMES while the world watches and does nothing but try to blame the victim - and it is SHAMEFUL for the Catholic Church to lend itself to this charade. Yes, I AM a Jew, and I hope that I have made enough Catholics angry to have them speak out about this. I don't care whether you are angry with me or not, but EVERYONE ought to be angry about injustice!
Cardinal McCarrick may speak for the bishops (a notoriously liberal lot) but he doeoson't speak for me!
UGH. Forgot spellcheck!
Sorry, I got a little worked up there. My closest Catholic friend is also upset about the path these leaders have taken, and I know he has written some letters to church leaders about it. It is unlikely to change anything, I know.
He speaks for Cardinal McCarrick, and nobody else.
The enemies of Israel are Syria and Pakistan, not Lebanon. They are the ones supporting Hezbollah, not Lebanon. To quote from an article written by Samir Khalil Samir, SJ ...
Hezbollah is the only armed militia left standing after the civil war ended in 1991. The party’s position is unacceptable. The recent UN Resolution 1559, which calls for the demilitarisation of all armed groups in the country, must be implemented.
It is necessary to know a bit of Hezbollah’s history to understand how much it is an anomaly.
Like other militias, Hezbollah emerged during the civil war, but unlike them, it was created in the wake of Israel’s second invasion of Lebanon in 1982.
Officially, it was founded on February 16, 1985, but in fact it was set up on November 22, 1982. Its mission was to free the southern parts of the country—where many Shiites live—from the invader.
This is one of the essential factors that fuel Mideast Islamic terrorism: respond to the terrorism and the continuous attacks by the State of Israel, and above all its occupation of non-Israeli territories.
If I allow a known marauder into my yard, who proceeds to devastate the home and property of my neighbor, I bear equal responsibility for the damage. Sovereignty is not trivial - it carries burdens as well as benefits. Lebanon failed to carry this particular burden, and Israel suffered for Lebanon's failure.
You know perfectly well what the response would be if Israel attacked Syria or Iran - I expect that you would be leading the protest demonstrations. No, the military insult emanates from Lebanon, and until Lebanon corrects it - with or without help, and in a way that prevents its reoccurence - Israel will defend itself against that immediate threat.
Lebanon is - and has been, for some years - being destroyed by Islamic nutcases, of which Hezbollah is but the latest group. I had good friends in California (where there are many Lebanese) who left Lebanon not because of Israel, but because of the influx of "Palestinians" who immediately began to make life unpleasant for Christians there. Sadly, I think many Lebanese Christians are very dhimmified, simply because those who stayed had to adapt to aggressive Islam.
That doesn't mean that Lebanese Christians are out there firing off Katushyas at Israelis. But it does mean that they will be in the line of fire, because their country has been taken over by something that is like the evil creature in the "Alien" movies - and somebody has got to stop that creature (Islam) before it destroys the entire Western world, of which Israel is the representative.
One of our parish families went to Lebanon in May and has not yet returned. The husband is attempting to get his wife and their 3 young children back to the US. It is simply not possible. They roads to Syria have been bombed and are impassible. No one can guarantee them safe passage. Meanwhile, Israel is moving deeper into Lebanon and dropping bombs on christian villages. Of one thing they can be certain, the christians are praying for them.
We now see more clearly how McCarrick was working with the Kerry camp in the last election.He purposely stalled action by the Catholic Church against pro-abortion Kerry.
I note that this map displays Israel as "occupied Palestine".... Do the Maronite Catholics believe this to be the case? If so, it puts them into rarified company, indeed.
We are talking past each other, as usually happens when Jews defend themselves. I do not see any acknowledgement of the missiles launched from most of the marked sites in the south, or the anti-Israeli weapons storage and transport on major routes elsewhere.
Israel has attempted to mitigate, minimize, and avoid civilian casualties, while Hezbollah has done exactly the opposite, against both its foes AND ITS HOSTS. It deliberately hides behind Lebanese women and children, forcing them to remain in proximity to their depradations, and exploits the suffering of these hostages when Israel rightfully defends itself. And the Lebanese government hides itself behind these same hostages, exhibiting a Stockholm-like adherence to their captors and exploiters, and talks of joining forces with Hezbollah.
Stand up to them, instead. On your own, or with the help of the UN, NATO, or whoever is sensitive to justice - perhaps even Israel - and EXPEL these predators from your midst. Become again what Lebanon once was - a place of tolerance, freedom, and justice.
The map does not come from a Maronite site.
Dear NYer,
It is incumbent upon Catholics, even the Maronite ones, not to give aid and comfort to those who wish to kill all the Jews. As the Lebanese Muslims who are pigs intent on murdering all the Jews are the neighbors of Lebanese Maronite Catholics, the Catholics have an obligation to put a stop to the Islamic swine murdering of Jews. The patriarch, however much religiosity he may have attained in life, is a worthless landfill if he cannot find voice to tell the Islamic scum to KNOCK IF OFF!
Do you have a similar map that shows the unprovoked rocket attacks on Israel by the Islamic scum? Do you have similar words from the patriarch and other Catholic bishops specifically condemning Hezbollah for purposefully targeting civilians, and hiding their own weapons and Islamic terrorists among the Lebanese civilian populations?
No? Then don't post this garbage. It is insulting and defames a decent people, Israel, while letting a guilty people, Lebanonese Islamic swine, off the hook entirely.
Israel has done its best to avoid unnecessary civilian casualties, although that is hard since Islamic cowards use women and children as shields against the hell they know is coming their way.
Where are the bishops, cardinals, and patriarchs words of encouragement for Israel for its restraint?
Where are the harsh condemnations of the Muslim pigs for using women and children as shields?
As someone else noted, even the map you use is blatantly anti-semitic and anti-Israel. Even the pre-1967 part of Israel is marked "Occupied Palestine"!
Anyone who uses such a map is a Nazi, and the Nazis earned their fate, as has Hezbollah, and everyone who has given them aid and comfort.
sitetest
By dropping leaflets? They are doing that now, in another part of Lebanon. But the roads are damaged and people cannot leave. All they can do is sit and wait for the bombs to drop.
On your own, or with the help of the UN, NATO, or whoever is sensitive to justice - perhaps even Israel - and EXPEL these predators from your midst.
This is what the Patriarch has been pleading for with the UN, to enforce Resolution 1559.
Resolution
The text of resolution 1559 (2004) reads as follows:
“The Security Council,
“Recalling all its previous resolutions on Lebanon, in particular resolutions 425 (1978) and 426 (1978) of 19 March 1978, resolution 520 (1982) of 17 September 1982, and resolution 1553 (2004) of 29 July 2004 as well as the statements of its President on the situation in Lebanon, in particular the statement of 18 June 2000 (S/PRST/2000/21),
“Reiterating its strong support for the territorial integrity, sovereignty and political independence of Lebanon within its internationally territorially recognized borders,
“Noting the determination of Lebanon to ensure the withdrawal of all non-Lebanese forces from Lebanon,
“Gravely concerned at the continued presence of armed militias in Lebanon, which prevent the Lebanese government from exercising its full sovereignty over all Lebanese territory,
“Reaffirming the importance of the extension of the control of the Government of Lebanon over all Lebanese territory,
“Mindful of the upcoming Lebanese presidential elections and underlining the importance of free and fair elections according to Lebanese constitutional rules devised without foreign interference or influence,
. Reaffirms its call for the strict respect of the sovereignty, territorial integrity, unity, and political independence of Lebanon under the sole and exclusive authority of the Government of Lebanon throughout Lebanon;
. Calls upon all remaining foreign forces to withdraw from Lebanon;
. Calls for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias;
. Supports the extension of the control of the Government of Lebanon over all Lebanese territory;
. Declares its support for a free and fair electoral process in Lebanon’s upcoming presidential election conducted according to Lebanese constitutional rules devised without foreign interference or influence;
. Calls upon all parties concerned to cooperate fully and urgently with the Security Council for the full implementation of this and all relevant resolutions concerning the restoration of the territorial integrity, full sovereignty, and political independence of Lebanon;
. Requests that the Secretary-General report to the Security Council within thirty days on the implementation by the parties of this resolution and decides to remain actively seized of this matter.”
The problem is not the Israelis. It's the Muslims, and I don't know why none of our lefty bishops (such as McCarrick) will come out and put the blame where it's due. Instead, they encourage the dhimmization of Christians in Muslim countries, making them side with their persecutors (Muslims) in a giant display of Stockholm Syndrome.
Sorry, but the Moslems haven't been the ones bombing Catholic TV stations, the bridges connecting the Christian villages of northern Lebanon to Beirut, and numerous other components of the Lebanese infrastructure.
I am glad that Cardinal McCarrick is visiting the Maronite Patriarch. We American Catholics should let our Lebanese brothers and sisters know they have our moral support.
All of this is commentary on the abject futility and prissy, empty formalism without substance of the UN.
Each such leafleting gives away vital intelligence to its adversary, and reduces the effectiveness of its tactical response. It is a very significant detriment to its defense.
Hezbollah, and the photographers they lead around by the nose, seem to get around rather freely, so I am not convinced that the roads are the problem. Instead, Hezbollah is forcing civilians to remain in the self-designated targets as cannon fodder for media consumption. I do not blame those victims - they do not choose to die or suffer wounds, but you continue to point your accusatory finger in the wrong direction.
YOU KNOW that Hezbollah is continuously, cynically, and hurtfully committing WAR CRIMES, not the Israelis, but you continue to beat your breast about Lebanese victims of this Hezbollah inhumanity. Wipe away the tears, and SEE clearly what is happening. Many Israeli soldiers have died, and many more have been wounded trying to protect their people. Perhaps some Lebanese soldiers should show the same mettle, against the same invaders of Lebanon.
Let me point out that Israel has the motive, means, and capability to address the task, and would almost certainly welcome an invitation from Lebanon to clear out the viper's nest that threatens both it and the future of your country so constantly. And as you well know, Israel departed from that area, VOLUNTARILY, not all that long ago. It has no territorial ambitions beyond a small part of Jerusalem, AND EVERYONE IN THE MIDEAST KNOW IT!
You have just bought into the greatest lie. Rephrase that, substituting 'Muslim" for 'Jew' and vv. Violence begets violence. Both Hezbullah and Israel are wrong - that is the message of the Pope, Patriarch and the Catholic Church. Have you forgotten everything you were ever taught?
Matthew 22
36 "Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?"
37 He said to him, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
38 This is the greatest and the first commandment.
39 The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."
The patriarch, however much religiosity he may have attained in life, is a worthless landfill if he cannot find voice to tell the Islamic scum to KNOCK IF OFF!
You equate all Lebanese Muslims with Hezbulloh. That is not the case. The Israelis dropped leaflets advising people to leave their homes. Those that were able to do so, fled. They headed north and sought refuge in the christian villages. There, following the commandments of God, the Maronites offered them shelter and food.
Children, as you well know, are quite curious. The Muslims were invited to join their prayers for peace and healing of all involved in this attack on their country with those of the Maronite community. The children began asking these priests questions and vv. One priest asked them 'what they would do if they found an injured Israeli soldier in the field'. They responded by saying they would shoot him to death and then distribute sweets to celebrate. The priest, appalled (but not surprised) by this response, then told them the story of the Good Samaritan. It's a question of education, dear friends. We don't kill the 'ignorant'; we educate them.
Luke 10
25 There was a scholar of the law who stood up to test him and said, "Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
26 Jesus said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read it?"
27 He said in reply, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your being, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself."
28 He replied to him, "You have answered correctly; do this and you will live."
29 But because he wished to justify himself, he said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"
30 Jesus replied, "A man fell victim to robbers as he went down from Jerusalem to Jericho. They stripped and beat him and went off leaving him half-dead.
31 A priest happened to be going down that road, but when he saw him, he passed by on the opposite side.
32 Likewise a Levite came to the place, and when he saw him, he passed by on the opposite side.
33 But a Samaritan traveler who came upon him was moved with compassion at the sight.
34 He approached the victim, poured oil and wine over his wounds and bandaged them. Then he lifted him up on his own animal, took him to an inn and cared for him.
35 The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper with the instruction, 'Take care of him. If you spend more than what I have given you, I shall repay you on my way back.'
36 Which of these three, in your opinion, was neighbor to the robbers' victim?"
37 He answered, "The one who treated him with mercy." Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."
When it comes to aiding those in need, the Catholic Church does not distinguish between Jew or Muslim. Both were made in the image and likeness of God and deserve to be given the same assistance.
This battle is not between Israel and Lebanon; it is between Israel and Hezbollah. Both need to sit down at a negotiation table and hash out their differences. In the meantime, innocent Jews, Christians and Muslims are being killed and the entire infrastructure of a country is being dismantled. Why? While this war rages, the Catholic Church will continue to do what it has always done - provide aid and assistance to the "victim by the side of the road."
To my catholic brothers and sisters in this forum, perhaps it is time to revisit the tenets of your faith and decide if you are capable of following the Ten Commandments. These are the pillar of our faith.
Jew haters? All the Cardinal is asking for is for the safety of Christians in Lebanon who are being used as human shields by the Hezbollah. Remember that Lebanon is 40% Christian, mostly Catholic-Maronite and that is concentrated in South Lebanon (except for the places co-opted by the Hizb-allah.
Thank you. I think some forget that there are innocents on both sides of this war. The Christians in Lebanon are our brothers in Christ. I will pray for an end to this conflict, and for the safety of our fellow Christians.
No ... thank you! for reading through all the comments before posting yours. The same priest who posted the comments about the Muslim regugees noted that there were Israeli planes circling above, and if one of them should end up in a field, he would extend the same treatment that has been given to the Muslim refugees.
This is not about who is right or wrong but who can heal the wounds. The Maronites are no strangers to persecution. In 451, the fathers of the Church held a meeting at the Council of Chalcedon. They clarified the teaching of the Church concerning the person of Jesus Christ. They proclaimed that Jesus Christ was both human and divine. The Maronites strongly defended the Council of Chalcedon, which made the Monophysites their bitter enemies. Pope Leo requested to build a monastery for the disciples of St. Maron on the Orontes River. The monastery was called Bet Moroon. The conflict between the Maronites and the Monophysites led to a strong persecution that left 350 martyrs and many refugees, dead, in 517. The Maronites informed Pope Hormizdes about their struggle for the sake of faith and their martyrs. The pope of Rome sent them a letter to strengthen the Maronites describing the Maronite martyrs as soldiers of Jesus Christ and members of his Living Body.
The Maronite priests of today are no different from those in the year 517AD. They are willing to lay down their lives for the teachings of the Church, be it in support of Jews or Muslims.
" == You have just bought into the greatest lie. Rephrase that, substituting 'Muslim" for 'Jew' and vv. == "
You know, I just did that, and it doesn't fit. The nation of Israel, and every Jew that I know, would be appalled at the thought of killing every Muslim. In fact, about 1/5 of Israeli citizens - with full voting rights, and representation in the Knesset - are Muslim, and actively practice their faith. But every member of Hezbollah would cheerfully murder any and every Jew, anywhere in the world, without a second thought.
Why don't you tell me what words you would use to reason away that level of contempt. You simply cannot, because at the end of the conversation, that Hezbollah Muslim will still regard any Jew alive as an affront to his god by simply drawing breath, and feel a religious duty to fix the problem he perceives.
If the Muslims - including Hezbollah - were to lay down their weapons, the fighting would end tomorrow. But if Israel were to lay down their weapons, neither Israel nor any Jew would survive the slaughter.
You are a bystander now only because of your numbers. But the Jews are the canary in your mine. We squawk and twitter and jump about, to assure you that the free air you breathe contains oxygen and not poison. But Jews are beginning to choke on the antisemitism poisoning that air, and many already have succumbed. The air of freedom is becoming foul, not just in the mideast but all over the world. You are ignoring it, because antisemitism stinks only to Jews and the few others who care about their fate. But all of the other old poisons lurk in deep recesses of the human soul, waiting to emerge and attack the next identifiable group, once the first target has been handled.
It is a clear fact that if any one of us is a child of G_d, then EVERY other one of us is, as well. Genocide has been a hallmark of the 20th century, no matter the good intentions of those who find it a horrific concept. Do you not think that the 21st century should bear a different signature?
Read the report carefully...it's a disguised criticism of Israel defending itself. But I said I found it hard to believe that this was the Bishop' intent. I am aware that one can't believe everything you read in the press, it could be the opinion of the reporter that actually came through. I hope, and trust that that is the case.
They're bombing it because they were attacked by the Muslims living in Lebanon.
If the Muslims - including Hezbollah - were to lay down their weapons, the fighting would end tomorrow. But if Israel were to lay down their weapons, neither Israel nor any Jew would survive the slaughter.
Agreed! That was the point of the post.
Perhaps you can clarify to me exactly what the discord is between Hezbollah and Israel. Essentially, if I am understanding this correctly, this is the crux of the problem. There are many Maronite Catholics praying for Israel to successfully route Hezbollah from Lebanon. However, in keeping with the commandments of God, they cannot turn their backs, nor will they, on those who are suffering and in need.
You are a bystander now only because of your numbers. But the Jews are the canary in your mine. We squawk and twitter and jump about, to assure you that the free air you breathe contains oxygen and not poison. But Jews are beginning to choke on the antisemitism poisoning that air, and many already have succumbed. The air of freedom is becoming foul, not just in the mideast but all over the world. You are ignoring it, because antisemitism stinks only to Jews and the few others who care about their fate. But all of the other old poisons lurk in deep recesses of the human soul, waiting to emerge and attack the next identifiable group, once the first target has been handled.
While I can appreciate your reflections (and these are personal impressions that you have posted), KNOW that the Maronite Catholics are more closely aligned with the Jewish heritage of their faith than any other Catholic Tradition. Of the 22 churches that comprise the One, Holy, Catholic Church, the Maronite Church retains the Jewish heritage more than all the others, through its prayers and liturgy. Many christians forget that Jesus was a Jew, as was His mother and disciples. The Maronite Catholic Church maintains daily prayers beginning at sundown and ending at sunrise. Many of these prayers are in Aramaic.
It is a clear fact that if any one of us is a child of G_d, then EVERY other one of us is, as well. Genocide has been a hallmark of the 20th century, no matter the good intentions of those who find it a horrific concept. Do you not think that the 21st century should bear a different signature?
The Maronite Catholics are no strangers to genocide; they are victims. (see my previous post) And yes, the Catholic Church, through its popes, continues to stress the need for tolerance. The Nazis may have begun with extermination of the Jews but they didn't stop there. Those exterminated in the death camps include gypsies, homosexuals and catholics who laid down their lives in support of the Jews. It may be challenging to understand that catholics view Jews as older siblings, and draw from their Jewish brothers and sisters. As Pope Benedict XVI said to Rabbi David Rosen,
"Everything that has religious significance for you must have religious significance for me because you are our roots."
Abraham is remembered each day in the Maronite Divine Liturgy. After the offerings have been brought up to the altar, the priest intones: "Lover of the Penitent"
To which the congregation responds:
"Show your mercy in our day
this pure incense Lord accept,
that these priestly hands now raise
as gifts by the faithful children of your church,
to atone and praise.
And as you received the lamb,
sacrificed by Abraham,
and from Aaron's hands,
sweet perfumes from distant lands. "
So, please tell me, what is the root problem between Israel and Hezbollah?
WRONG!
Do you understand that Muslims fall into different groups and that not all Muslims are members of Hezbollah? Why do you insist on grouping them all together?
Dear NYer,
Sorry, I didn't say ALL Muslims. I'm merely referring to those swine that want to murder all the Jews.
Regrettably, it's quite apparent that this group, Muslims who wish to kill all the Jews, comprises many, probably most of the Muslims in the Middle East.
Opinion polls of Muslims in Arab-occupied Judea and Samaria, as well as election results in both Arab-occupied Judea and Samaria, as well as Lebanon, show widespread support for Hezbollah, Hamas, and other terrorist groups, among the region's Muslims.
And these groups have as their one desire to destroy Israel (and to force the conversion of Jews and Christians to the false religion of Islam, or kill us, while they're at it).
Those are the facts - most Muslims in that region want to kill all the Jews. Deal with it.
"Both Hezbullah and Israel are wrong - that is the message of the Pope, Patriarch and the Catholic Church."
False. Hezbollah is wrong to want to murder all Jews. Israel is not wrong to defend itself and its people. The moral equivalence between the two is satanic.
"You equate all Lebanese Muslims with Hezbulloh."
Not all. However, it appears that a majority of Lebanese Muslims supported Hezbollah in recent elections.
However, if the majority of Lebanese Muslims does NOT support Hezbollah, all they need to do is chase these vermin out of their neighborhoods so that Israelis don't have to come for them in those neighborhoods.
However, even if they tried and failed, it doesn't excuse Israel of the responsibility of protecting its own people, and that means killing every last murdering Muslim that attacks it, no matter where they are, no matter what the collateral damage. The murdering Muslims are trying to exterminate Israel. Everyone talks about "proportionality." But what proportionality means in this case is that Israel may inflict harm commensurate to what it wishes to avoid - extermination by the servants of Satan, the Muslims who attack it. Thus, Israel may inflict very heavy losses on the country that harbors Hezbollah, because it is fighting for its survival.
"Both need to sit down at a negotiation table and hash out their differences."
Why do you demand of Israel what is impossible? Why? Hezbollah's reason for being is the destruction of Israel. Israel has gone so far, so often, to make peace with the barbarian nations that surround it. It gave back the Sinai. The ENTIRE Sinai. For a nearly worthless piece of paper. It relinguished the Gaza Strip to the barbarians. For what? To be attacked by these vermin. It left Lebanon UTTERLY. And yet, it is attacked by the predominant forces in Lebanon. Frankly, that is an act of international war, and Lebanon, being the aggressor state, would deserve just about whatever Israel could dish out. Remember, Hezbollah is a part of the Lebanese government. If the rest of the government cannot keep Hezbollah from committing war against a neighboring state, then one can justly say that it is Hezbollah that is in command of the arms of the Lebanese state, and in that no one in Lebanon stops them, all of Lebanon is liable for the immoral, illegal war it wages against Israel.
Israel was willing to give the barbarian Arabs that occupy Judea and Samaria nearly ALL OF Judea and Samaria for the sake of peace. But the barbarians wouldn't take it.
There are no negotiations to be had with the likes of Hezbollah or Hamas. Hamas won the elections by the Arabs in Arab-occupied Judea and Samaria. Folks hoped, well, perhaps they'll moderate. Nope. First announcement, we still plan to destroy Israel and murder all the Jews. It's for "allah," after all.
Hezbollah has made clear that they'll take a ceasefire, but WILL NOT abandon their quest to destroy Israel.
A nation ought not negotiate with such a foe. A nation ought to hunt down such a foe and kill it.
"To my catholic brothers and sisters in this forum, perhaps it is time to revisit the tenets of your faith and decide if you are capable of following the Ten Commandments. These are the pillar of our faith."
There is noting in the Ten Commandments that orders a nation to lay down and accept slaughter from barbarians.
The moral equivalence made by some between Israel and their enemies is objectively anti-semitism.
sitetest
Dear Antoninus,
"How do you negotiate with someone who's one non-negotiable position is that you die?"
By dying?
That's certainly what Cardinal McCarrick and the patriarch are implicitly suggesting. That's really the only logical conclusion to any call for negotiations with Hezbollah.
Let's face it. That's what much of the world really wishes the Jews would just do. Just die, damn it. Then the Europeans and the Arabs who occupy Judea and Samaria and the Muslims and all the other Jew-haters could have peace.
But those Jews just aren't cooperating! Hitler had it so much easier!!
</really bitterly ugly sarcasm>
sitetest
" == Perhaps you can clarify to me exactly what the discord is between Hezbollah and Israel. == "
Israel seeks to live peacefully in its homeland, having learned through the centuries that surviving on the sufferance of foreign rulers is a perilous existence.
Short version:
Theodore Hertzl founded the Zionist movement in the mid-19th century, on the premise that the dispersed Jews of the diaspora would always be at the mercy of their host countries, which had proved disastrous time after time. Only a homeland would give them the security to live their lives as free Jews, and the place for that homeland was the biblical promised land, with its capital in Jerusalem.
All of this country was rich in history but poor in every other resource - including the oil that would make most of the surrounding countries rich beyond their wildest dreams. The land was a desert with a few dusty towns and the Dead Sea. Jerusalem had its religious attractions and little else. Once it all had been the land of the Jews - a gift from G_d. But had been taken from them, won back, and taken again.
Some Jews did perform aliyah - "go up, to Jerusalem" - in response to the Zionist call, but only after WWII and the holocaust did large numbers of Jews leave the countries that had failed to protect them and follow their brethren.
Britain was the administrator of the land they sought, and finally agreed to a partition of the land, into Israel and Jordan. The Jews had their homeland, but not without a fight. The arab residents of the land were offered full participation, but at the urging of the surrounding governments, most chose to leave their homes in anticipation of the surrounding governments driving the Jews into the sea. It didn't happen.
The Israelis won the war, held the land, and began to make the desert bloom. A few of the former residents returned to Israel, but by their own choice, most became the refugees that continue to plague the region. Unfortunately, the wars were not over. Time after time, Israel was attacked and forced to defend itself. Yes, I realize that in one instance Israel fired the first shot, but in that case all of its adversaries were on its border in an aggressive, threatening posture.
Hezbollah has a simple aim - destruction of Israel, and death (or possibly conversion to Islam) of every Jew in the land. This is not compatible with the way that you or I think, and not compatible with civilized standards of behavior. Re-read this part, and think about it before you tell me again how I must accept this difference and learn to live in harmony.
From 1982 to the present, Israel has killed 20,000 Lebanese civilians. Prior to the recent conflict, Hezbollah had killed exactly one civilian in Israel. The Israeli response to the Hezbollah incursion into Israel (which was an attack on Israeli soldiers, not civilians) has been disproportionate, resulting in large civilian casualties, an enormous refugee crisis, and massive damage to Lebanon's infrastructure. Israel is entitled to defend itself, but the way it has chosen to respond to Hezbollah in this conflict cannot be squared with the just war doctrine.
Benedict XVI has repeatedly called for an immediate cease fire in Lebanon, and the Holy Father is right.
Israel did not randomly go out and kill Lebanese civilians. Any Lebanese who died did so in the course of battles not started by Israel.
Hezbollah is just the latest and best-equipped manifestation of the same people who have been bombing Israelis into shreds on their busses and at their cafes, rocketing rural settlements and doing everything possible to make life hell for Israelis for decades.
Sadly, because these people refuse to have a real army or fight a genuine war - but instead hide behind civilians or even use civilians as a form of weapon - Israel, which only works through its army and does not send suicide bombers into Muslim countries, is always going to be open to the charge of disproportionate response.
You need to put the blame where it lies, on Muslim fanatics, and then perhaps it will be easier to seek a just and reasonable solution. Furthermore, one thing we should all remember is that while these people hate Israel for traditional Islamic Jew-hating reasons, the real reason they hate it because it represents the West and the Greco-Romano Judeo-Christian culture the West is founded upon. So we have a dog in this fight, like it or not.
Thank you for a clear, concise and rational explanation.
" == Sorry, but the Moslems haven't been the ones bombing Catholic TV stations, the bridges connecting the Christian villages of northern Lebanon to Beirut, and numerous other components of the Lebanese infrastructure. == "
No, they have been the ones hiding behind Lebanese civilians of every religious persuasion while launching thousands of katusha rockets indiscriminately into Israel.
Not so...He speaks for the Pope...The Pope sent him...
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