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A Popular Strategy For Church Growth Splits Congregants
Wall Street Journal ^ | 09/05/2006 | Suzanne Sataline

Posted on 09/05/2006 2:24:04 PM PDT by Terriergal

IUKA, Miss. -- In April, 150 members of Iuka Baptist Church voted to kick Charles Jones off the deacons' board. The punishment followed weeks of complaints by Mr. Jones and his friends that the pastor was following the teachings of the Rev. Rick Warren, the best-selling author and church-growth guru. After the vote, about 40 other members quit the church to support Mr. Jones.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Charismatic Christian; Current Events; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Other Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: apostates; beyondreligion; christvscause; churchgrowth; ecumenical; letusprey; ministersofsatan; moneygrubbers; passtheloot; purpose; purposedriven; religionisobsolete; rickwarren; saddleback; transitioning; transitions; warren
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Finally the article has come out. We've been waiting for this for months. Thank you, Suzanne, excellent job!
1 posted on 09/05/2006 2:24:07 PM PDT by Terriergal
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To: Terriergal; Alex Murphy; marshmallow
The article is quite devastating.

The most salient points: It reveals that the Warren organization, as a matter of official policy coming from the top of the ministry:

(1) Advocates that pastors introduce "purpose-driven" activities as secretly as possible and advises them to conceal their actual agenda as long as necessary to forestall criticism.

(2) Instructs pastors to identify congregants who are not happy about "transitioning" their church to be "helped to leave."

(3) When disaffected congregants leave, they instruct pastors to find out what the excluded congregant's new congregation is and call that congregation's pastor to tell them to watch out for that congregant and to make sure that congregant is not allowed a leadership role in his new congregation.

Absolutely evil, sickening, unChristian stuff.

2 posted on 09/05/2006 2:30:56 PM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: Terriergal; All

CAN ANYONE POST THIS ARTICLE,THE LINK IS FOR SUSCRIBERS.

GODSPEED!


3 posted on 09/05/2006 2:31:21 PM PDT by alpha-8-25-02 ("SAVED BY GRACE AND GRACE ALONE")
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To: marshmallow

I pinged you because this "purpose-driven" stuff is doing the same thing to evangelical congregations that RENEW did to Catholic parishes, except that they seem to be even more effective than RENEW in finding host churches and sucking them dry.


4 posted on 09/05/2006 2:33:58 PM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Terriergal
Some pastors learn how to make their churches purpose-driven through training workshops. Speakers at Church Transitions Inc., a Waxhaw, N.C., nonprofit that works closely with Mr. Warren's church, stress that the transition will be rough. At a seminar outside of Austin, Texas, in April, the Revs. Roddy Clyde and Glen Sartain advised 80 audience members to trust very few people with their plans. "All the forces of hell are going to come at you when you wake up that church," said Mr. Sartain, who has taught the material at Mr. Warren's Saddleback Church.

During a session titled "Dealing with Opposition," Mr. Clyde recommended that the pastor speak to critical members, then help them leave if they don't stop objecting. Then when those congregants join a new church, Mr. Clyde instructed, pastors should call their new minister and suggest that the congregants be barred from any leadership role.

This is the passage that floored me.

6 posted on 09/05/2006 2:37:24 PM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: alpha-8-25-02

we aren't allowed to per the WSJournal.


7 posted on 09/05/2006 2:37:59 PM PDT by Terriergal (All your church are belong to us! --- The Purpose Driven Church)
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To: TommyDale; Admin Moderator

actually I don't think we're allowed to do that, are we? WSJ is one that doesn't allow us to post anything but an excerpt if I'm not mistaken. :-\ I just don't want J & J Robinson to get in trouble.


8 posted on 09/05/2006 2:41:45 PM PDT by Terriergal (All your church are belong to us! --- The Purpose Driven Church)
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To: wideawake

I hadn't heard about RENEW (not surprising since I'm not catholic) -- elaborate if you would.


9 posted on 09/05/2006 2:42:28 PM PDT by Terriergal (All your church are belong to us! --- The Purpose Driven Church)
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To: Terriergal; Admin Moderator

Oh, I didn't know that. My apologies.


10 posted on 09/05/2006 2:43:35 PM PDT by TommyDale (Iran President Ahmadinejad is shorter than Tom Daschle!)
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To: wideawake
This is the passage that floored me

Me too. I got goosebumps and the hair on the back of my neck stood on end. That's pretty unbelieveable but then these people have had me agog at every turn with their passive agressive underhanded and unethical behavior.

11 posted on 09/05/2006 2:43:53 PM PDT by Terriergal (All your church are belong to us! --- The Purpose Driven Church)
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To: Terriergal
Speakers at Church Transitions Inc., a Waxhaw, N.C., nonprofit that works closely with Mr. Warren's church, stress that the transition will be rough. At a seminar outside of Austin, Texas, in April, the Revs. Roddy Clyde and Glen Sartain advised 80 audience members to trust very few people with their plans. "All the forces of hell are going to come at you when you wake up that church," said Mr. Sartain, who has taught the material at Mr. Warren's Saddleback Church.

During a session titled "Dealing with Opposition," Mr. Clyde recommended that the pastor speak to critical members, then help them leave if they don't stop objecting. Then when those congregants join a new church, Mr. Clyde instructed, pastors should call their new minister and suggest that the congregants be barred from any leadership role.

"There are moments when you've got to play hardball," said the Rev. Dan Southerland, Church Transitions' president, in an interview. "You cannot transition a church...and placate every whiny Christian along the way."


Wow. That is evil. Where the Hell do they get off telling the new church that the congregant shouldn't be allowed in leadership?
12 posted on 09/05/2006 2:47:23 PM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: Terriergal

Am I allowed to do this?

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB115741786888753373-lMyQjAxMDE2NTA3NTQwMTU3Wj.html


13 posted on 09/05/2006 2:47:39 PM PDT by TommyDale (Iran President Ahmadinejad is shorter than Tom Daschle!)
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To: TommyDale

THANKYOU!


14 posted on 09/05/2006 2:48:20 PM PDT by alpha-8-25-02 ("SAVED BY GRACE AND GRACE ALONE")
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To: Terriergal
RENEW was/is a movement among Catholic apostates for spreading liberal, touchyfeely theological notions among the Catholic laity.

They secure permission from bishops and pastors to send a RENEW team to parishes to hold seminars where they promote their views, then they work to change the liturgy and worship of the local parish and focus the content of the liturgy on their prime concerns of "oppenness, compassion and healing" and do their best to push out any refrences to sin, personal responsibility, death, judgment, heaven and hell.

They then raise money in special collections so they can move on to the next parish.

15 posted on 09/05/2006 2:50:08 PM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: Terriergal
This is the kind of thing that Warren cheerleaders need to address directly.

This stuff is from the horses' mouth, directly quoted in one of America's few truly respected national dailies.

16 posted on 09/05/2006 2:52:36 PM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake

sounds exactly the same. While I don't agree with Catholic doctrine, I don't advocate dumping doctrinal differences just for the sake of 'unity.' People have to actually examine the differences and reject what they believe (scripturally) to be false, not just overlook things or refuse to deal with them.


17 posted on 09/05/2006 2:52:40 PM PDT by Terriergal (All your church are belong to us! --- The Purpose Driven Church)
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To: Terriergal
People have to actually examine the differences and reject what they believe (scripturally) to be false, not just overlook things or refuse to deal with them.

There are those on FR who will call this statement "blasphemy."

Just a heads-up.

18 posted on 09/05/2006 2:54:20 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (the war on poverty should include health club memberships for the morbidly poor)
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To: wideawake

Warren says he "doesn't approve of efforts to oust members" -- yeah but he wrote a glowing endorsement of Church Transitions Inc's book "Transitioning" which does just that! He talks out of both sides of his mouth and I think that he doesn't know whether he's on foot or on horseback half the time.

I will REPEAT the more I SEE Warren himself on TV the more I think he's probably a delightful person to be around. But that isn't what makes right in God's eyes.


19 posted on 09/05/2006 2:54:39 PM PDT by Terriergal (All your church are belong to us! --- The Purpose Driven Church)
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To: freedumb2003

why do you say that? If you can't in good conscience endorse a church's doctrine, you shouldn't belong to it. Even if I grant that church X's doctrine is true, if you belong to it but secretly reject some crucial doctrine, it won't save you. God knows what you believe.


20 posted on 09/05/2006 2:56:07 PM PDT by Terriergal (All your church are belong to us! --- The Purpose Driven Church)
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