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To: Calvin Coollidge; ArrogantBustard; Kolokotronis
That said there is a difference of opinion within Orthodoxy

Here is another example of "consensus". What does the Church teach? Which one Patriarch has the final say?

102 posted on 09/11/2006 1:58:39 PM PDT by NYer ("That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah." Hillel)
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To: NYer
(CC) That said there is a difference of opinion within Orthodoxy

(NY) Here is another example of "consensus". What does the Church teach? Which one Patriarch has the final say?

You seem to be under the impression that we need to have the answer to every question at all times.  We don't and your church has had long debates before on questions of discipline and dogma.  On which note I should point out that the question of the manner of receiving converts from heterodox confessions is one of discipline mainly.  All canonical Orthodox accept dogmatically two points...

1.  There are no mysteries outside the Church.

2.  Holy Chrismation is an effective means by which a sacramental ceremony that was void and empty of grace can be filled with grace and made whole provided the original form & intent was (more or less) Orthodox.

The debate is not over whether we MUST baptize all converts.  It's over whether we SHOULD baptize all converts.

Both methods are accepted by all canonical Orthodox as legitimate.  However reception by means other than Holy Baptism has always been seen as an act of oikonomia (economy or a dispensation).  There is a complaint in some quarters (one that I think is not completely lacking in merit), that oikonomia has become normative.  It is also creating a dangerous impression that some Orthodox are starting to latch onto, to the effect that we do recognize non-Orthodox sacraments as "valid."

108 posted on 09/11/2006 2:14:20 PM PDT by Calvin Coollidge (The last really great president.)
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