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To: Kolokotronis; Calvin Coolidge; Campion
That's pretty much, in a counciliar/synodal way, what Orthodoxy has been doing for the past 2000 years, NYer.

Understood. But the Orthodox Church cannot evolve without one leader to sanction change. This is evidenced by the absence of one stance with regard to birth control. In his book, The Orthodox Church, Bishop Kallistos Ware states:

The use of contraceptives and other devices for birth control is on the whole strongly discouraged in the Orthodox Church. Some bishops and theologians altogether condemn the employment of such methods. Others, however, have recently begun to adopt a less strict position, and urge that the question is best left to the discretion of each individual couple, in consultation with the spiritual father.

This is precisely where 'consensus' leads - nowhere. What is the Orthodox Church positon on IVF or the use of fetal stem cells? What about cloning?

80 posted on 09/11/2006 1:02:28 PM PDT by NYer ("That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah." Hillel)
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To: NYer

The way my priest explained it, if you use contraceptives for any reason other than not being financially able to have more children, then you are comitting a sin.


81 posted on 09/11/2006 1:06:21 PM PDT by TexConfederate1861 ("Having a picture of John Wayne doesn't make you a Texan :) ")
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To: NYer

or health reasons.......


82 posted on 09/11/2006 1:07:27 PM PDT by TexConfederate1861 ("Having a picture of John Wayne doesn't make you a Texan :) ")
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To: NYer

or health reasons.......


83 posted on 09/11/2006 1:07:37 PM PDT by TexConfederate1861 ("Having a picture of John Wayne doesn't make you a Texan :) ")
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To: NYer; Calvin Coolidge; Campion

+Kallistos is a fine, holy man. Unfortunately, he has become the "go to" hierarch for Westerners with questions about Orthodoxy and his positions many times are not in accord with current Orthodox thinking. I suspect this has to do in part with his Anglican background.

Orthodoxy is not fixated on hard and fast rules when it comes to the day to day life of the laity. As we have discussed before, in Orthodoxy there are two ways of dealing with a given rule. One is called "akrivia" which is a strict application of the rules. The other is called "economia" which is like giving someone a pass on the rule if enforcement of the rule will do more damage than good. It is first last and always the province of a bishop, though a bishop may delegate that authority to spiritual fathers which is likely what +Kallistos is talking about. By the way, economia has no meaning in the context of enforcing dogma.

Your choice of the contraceptive issue as an example of why Orthodoxy needs an all powerful pope demonstrates one of the very basic differences between the way Orthodoxy looks at the role of a bishop and the way at least popular Roman Catholicism does. Its a big difference, NYer.


95 posted on 09/11/2006 1:39:06 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: NYer; Kolokotronis

What is the Orthodox Church positon on IVF or the use of fetal stem cells? What about cloning?





see point 2 on the Greek Orthodox Church's official position on abortion...and lots more.
Any GO bishop espousing a contrary POV should be excommunicated.

http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7101.asp


117 posted on 09/11/2006 3:05:41 PM PDT by eleni121 (General Draza Mihailovich: We will never forget you - the hero of World War Two)
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