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Daily Reflections with Oswald Chambers [September 13, 2006]
My Utmost for His Highest (The Golden Book of Oswald Chambers; 1992) ^ | 1935/1992 | Oswald Chambers

Posted on 09/13/2006 3:08:39 AM PDT by .30Carbine

After Surrender— Then What?

" I have finished the work which You have given Me to do "

—John 17:4

True surrender is not simply surrender of our external life but surrender of our will— and once that is done, surrender is complete. The greatest crisis we ever face is the surrender of our will. Yet God never forces a person’s will into surrender, and He never begs. He patiently waits until that person willingly yields to Him. And once that battle has been fought, it never needs to be fought again.

Surrender for Deliverance. "Come to Me . . . and I will give you rest" ( Matthew 11:28 ). It is only after we have begun to experience what salvation really means that we surrender our will to Jesus for rest. Whatever is causing us a sense of uncertainty is actually a call to our will— "Come to Me." And it is a voluntary coming.

Surrender for Devotion. "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself . . . " ( Matthew 16:24 ). The surrender here is of my self to Jesus, with His rest at the heart of my being. He says, "If you want to be My disciple, you must give up your right to yourself to Me." And once this is done, the remainder of your life will exhibit nothing but the evidence of this surrender, and you never need to be concerned again with what the future may hold for you. Whatever your circumstances may be, Jesus is totally sufficient (see 2 Corinthians 12:9 and Philippians 4:19).

Surrender for Death. ". . . another will gird you . . ." ( John 21:18-19 ). Have you learned what it means to be girded for death? Beware of some surrender that you make to God in an ecstatic moment in your life, because you are apt to take it back again. True surrender is a matter of being "united together [with Jesus] in the likeness of His death" ( Romans 6:5 ) until nothing ever appeals to you that did not appeal to Him.

And after you surrender— then what? Your entire life should be characterized by an eagerness to maintain unbroken fellowship and oneness with God.

In 1910 Chambers married Gertrude Hobbs. They had one daughter, Kathleen, who still resides in London (as of 1992).

In 1911 he founded and became principal of the Bible Training College in Clapham, London, where he lectured until the school was closed in 1915 because of World War I. In October 1915 he sailed for Zeitoun, Egypt (near Cairo), where he ministered to Australian and New Zealand troops as a YMCA chaplain. He died there November 15, 1917, following surgery for a ruptured appendix.

My Utmost for His Highest, his best-known book, has been continuously in print in the United States since 1935 and in this, the last decade of the century, remains in the top ten titles of the religious book bestseller list with millions of copies in print. It has become a Christian classic. [from the flyleaf of the book]


TOPICS: Ecumenism; General Discusssion; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: prayer; reflection; selfexamination
Come to these threads as you are; leave with what you have discovered.

Absolutely no flaming! These daily threads are intended to be devotional in nature. If a particular day's offering says nothing to you, please just go on and wait for the next day. Consider these threads a DMZ of sorts, a place where a perpetual truce is in effect and a place where all other arguments and disagreements from other times and places are left behind.

I can attest from personal experience that reading from Chambers daily will almost certainly change - not one's faith - but one's perspective of his/her own faith, and open up new vistas in your spiritual life. If - when - this happens to a reader of these threads, and they choose to share what has happened within them - we are treading on hallowed ground. Be respectful.

- Religion Moderator

1 posted on 09/13/2006 3:08:40 AM PDT by .30Carbine
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To: Religion Moderator; .30Carbine; 185JHP; 1lawlady; abigail2; al_c; Alamo-Girl; AlbionGirl; AlguyA; ..
Devotion ping!
2 posted on 09/13/2006 3:09:21 AM PDT by .30Carbine (May God Be The Glory!)
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To: .30Carbine

Good morning, .30Carbine. Thank you for your daily dedication in posting the Daily Reflections. They are much appreciated.


3 posted on 09/13/2006 3:45:46 AM PDT by bwteim (bwteim = Begin With The End In Mind)
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To: .30Carbine
Morning, good reminder for we Americans that THIS IS THE PLACE TO USE THE WHITE FLAG. We give up our own sovernty & the throne of our life to him. He & me cannot share that seat.. just one of us. It is s daily, hourly, minute by minute struggle for most. WHO is in charge..God or us. Thanks for the ping & have a great day to all!!!!
4 posted on 09/13/2006 4:40:42 AM PDT by DollyCali (Don't tell GOD how big your storm is -- Tell the storm how B-I-G your God is!)
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To: .30Carbine
Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

A lot to reflect on again today, including this one. Thank you.

5 posted on 09/13/2006 4:52:59 AM PDT by phantomworker ("A chicken doesn't stop scratching just because worms are scarce.")
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To: .30Carbine; alpha-8-25-02; All

I respectfully disagree with Oswald here:

*Never* Surrender. Negotiate terms if you must, and live to fight another day. But never, ever Surrender. Death before dishonor.

God does not require us to Surrender: Allah does. And Allah and his False Prophet Muhammad be Dam'ned: I'll see them both in Hell before I *ever* surrender.

God wants us to follow His Son as Christian Soldiers, equipped to fight the wiles of the Devil equipped per Ephesians 6. We are not granted permission to surrender arms: the sword of the spirit, or the breastplate of righteousness, or any of the rest.

When we accept our commission as Christian Soldiers it is to the death. Surrender plays no part: ours is a willing enlistment into His ranks and into His Command. As volunteers: not as conscripts as Allah would have.

I'll voluntarily follow Christ to Hell and back again and take the skin of the Devil as our trophy. And if I'm permitted to lead a host or two of Saints, better still. Either way, the Sword of the Spirit will be wielded in my hand and never surrendered.

Surrender is for the French and other cowards. It is *not* for Christian Soldiers. It is a foreign and repugnant concept to be discarded with contempt immediately.

Me, surrender? Hell No! No way in Texas. Not this Christian Soldier -- not so long as my arse points toward the ground -- and *that* is final.

Crikey. I have not yet begun to fight. And I'd rather die than surrender.

Allah can kiss my arse or meet me in a dark alley.

*DieHard*


6 posted on 09/13/2006 5:00:02 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (I am the Chieftain of my Clan. I bow to nobody. Get out of my way.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

Ro 1:1 ¶ Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

GOOD TO SEE YOU IN FIGHTING FORM MATE!

CHAMBERS WAS STATING WE SHOULD SURRENDER TO THE LORDSHIP OF CHRIST AND NO OTHER,INCLUDING OURSELVES.

LIKE OUR DECEASED BRETHREN THE HIGHLANDERS HAD,COMPLETE FEARLESSNESS BECAUSE THEY NEW GOD IS COMPLETELTY SOVERIEGN;

http://www.personal.kent.edu/~ltaylor1/USFormoutline.pdf#search=%22%22SCOTS%20HIGHLANDERS%22%20AND%20%22GOD'S%20SOVEREIGNTY%22%22

KIA KAHA!


7 posted on 09/13/2006 5:44:34 AM PDT by alpha-8-25-02 ("SAVED BY GRACE AND GRACE ALONE")
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To: .30Carbine
Whatever is causing us a sense of uncertainty is actually a call to our will— "Come to Me." And it is a voluntary coming.

"If you want to be My disciple, you must give up your right to yourself to Me."

Your entire life should be characterized by an eagerness to maintain unbroken fellowship and oneness with God.


The daily pearls of intense wisdom.


“Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.” Ezekiel 36:25

You will keep in perfect peace him whose mind is steadfast, because he trusts in you. Isaiah 26:3>
8 posted on 09/13/2006 6:03:44 AM PDT by Vision ("As a man thinks...so is he." Proverbs 23:7)
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To: .30Carbine
The greatest crisis we ever face is the surrender of our will.

So very, very true! Thank you for this beautiful devotion!
9 posted on 09/13/2006 10:54:48 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: DieHard the Hunter
God wants us to follow His Son as Christian Soldiers, equipped to fight the wiles of the Devil equipped per Ephesians 6.

Dear DieHard, I hope you will be patient with me and read my whole post, though it is a long one. I do love you and so I took extra time with this for your sake!

Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.

In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.

I'm so glad you brought up Ephesians 6:10-18! We are to be strong in the Lord and in His Mighty Power! Amen!

As I understand it, the Belt of Truth was the most important item of armor - you will note it is listed first! - for every other piece was attached to this one, and without it none of the other armor could be worn. As I've also heard, the men of that day, much like Scotsmen, wore a skirt-like item instead of pants, and the belt was absolutely necessary so that he could tuck the fabric in and run, not being "tripped up" - even in our own day there is a darn good reason why men wear belts (;

Also, it is important to note what the offensive weapons of our warfare are, namely, Prayer and The Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God, and the Word of God is the Truth! Without the Word of God the Christian Soldier has no Sword, or failing to have the whole Word of God the Soldier has an embarrassingly broken blade.

If you attempt to "fight the devil" with the devil's own weapons, you will lose every time, for that evil one is the master of evil and the father of lies and all liars. Satan is a fallen angel, an eternally conquered foe, but he is an angel nonetheless, and given reign in this time as prince of "the rulers, the authorities, the powers of this dark world and the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms (6:12)." All who fight with his powers - whether they know it or not - are serving him.

Jude speaks of these things:

And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves.

God the Father of Truth is very patient with us, not wanting any to perish, but all to come repentance (2 Peter 3:9). As Oswald Chambers phrases it,

God never forces a person’s will into surrender,
and He never begs.
He patiently waits until that person willingly yields to Him...
...The surrender here is of my self to Jesus

10 posted on 09/13/2006 1:08:46 PM PDT by .30Carbine (May God Be The Glory!)
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To: Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; Quix; Kitty Mittens; Knitting A Conundrum; Countyline; alpha-8-25-02
The greatest crisis we ever face is the surrender of our will.

Indeed, and so "midwives" are called for!

11 posted on 09/13/2006 1:10:59 PM PDT by .30Carbine (May God Be The Glory!)
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To: bwteim
You are most welcome. I am dedicated to these because I am madly in love with (i.e., "dedicated to") my Lord Jesus. God is always at His work: how I praise Him that He made me a cleansed vessel, useful at the Master's Table (2 Tim. 2:20-21).

I appreciate the Reflections and grow in them as much as any. Who shall I thank?! God! - through Jesus Christ! Amen!

I'm delighted to see you again, bw! Thank you for posting to today's thread!

12 posted on 09/13/2006 1:16:18 PM PDT by .30Carbine (May God Be The Glory!)
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To: .30Carbine

the hardest, and best prayer, "not my will, but Thine, O Lord!"


13 posted on 09/13/2006 1:17:34 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: DollyCali
It is s daily, hourly, minute by minute struggle for most. WHO is in charge..God or us.

You are a wise woman and I thank God for our fellowship here and throughout the forum...in the Kingdom!

THIS IS THE PLACE TO USE THE WHITE FLAG.

14 posted on 09/13/2006 1:18:42 PM PDT by .30Carbine (May God Be The Glory!)
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To: phantomworker

Amen, He alone offers rest, and the simple call, "Come." Thank you.


15 posted on 09/13/2006 1:21:23 PM PDT by .30Carbine (May God Be The Glory!)
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To: alpha-8-25-02
CHAMBERS WAS STATING WE SHOULD SURRENDER TO THE LORDSHIP OF CHRIST AND NO OTHER, INCLUDING OURSELVES.

Very well put, and I thank you for making it so plain, dear alpha.

16 posted on 09/13/2006 1:23:00 PM PDT by .30Carbine (May God Be The Glory!)
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To: Vision
“Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.”
Ezekiel 36:25

Your verse walks hand in hand with today's message. Any other person or thing, including Self, that sits on the throne of a heart other than God its Maker, is an idol. Thank you so much for sharing, dear Vision. Nice to see you again.

Your entire life should be characterized by an eagerness to maintain unbroken fellowship and oneness with God.

That's what I want! For the display of His Glory, amen!

17 posted on 09/13/2006 1:27:01 PM PDT by .30Carbine (May God Be The Glory!)
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To: .30Carbine

Indeed.

And long dark nights of the soul; fiery furnaces . . . seem to function as quite tolerable mid-wives . . .

Though I'm still not sure how to wrap my mind well around:

MY YOKE IS EASY AND MY BURDEN LIGHT.

vs

I won't put on you more than you can bear [Right, but you sure push us right up to the line; stretch us so that our line is expanded and then push us up to that line! LOL]


18 posted on 09/13/2006 1:33:47 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum
the hardest, and best prayer, "not my will, but Thine, O Lord!"

I'm surrounded by wisdom! Thank you so, so much for appearing!

give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus.
~1 Thessalonians 5:18

For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.
1 Peter 2:15

It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;
1 Thessalonians 4:3

And they did not do as we expected, but they gave themselves first to the Lord and then to us in keeping with God's will.
2 Corinthians 8:5

Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Romans 12:2

And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.
Romans 8:27

"If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own."
John 17:7

"Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."
Mark 3:35

It is better, if it is God's will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.
1 Peter 3:17

So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.
1 Peter 4:19

19 posted on 09/13/2006 1:35:32 PM PDT by .30Carbine (May God Be The Glory!)
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To: Quix
LOL

LUB

(:

20 posted on 09/13/2006 1:36:28 PM PDT by .30Carbine (May God Be The Glory!)
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To: .30Carbine

THX

THX.

LIKEWISE, 4 Sure


21 posted on 09/13/2006 1:39:33 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: Quix; All
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.

Amen, amen.

22 posted on 09/13/2006 1:47:54 PM PDT by .30Carbine (May God Be The Glory!)
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To: .30Carbine

The little things in life are silent distractions, trying to convince me I can do this or that on my own. So every day, seemingly all day long, I confront them, confess them and surrender anew.


23 posted on 09/13/2006 9:08:08 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; Quix
O amen! It is very, very good to know that I am weak, but He Is Strong, and to beware the "little foxes."

I keep thinking of Psalm 68, the opening verse of which Quix has been using as a tagline lately, for it shows the proper formation of our procession:

...The chariots of God are tens of thousands
and thousands of thousands;
the Lord has come from Sinai into his sanctuary.

When you ascended on high,
you led captives in your train;
you received gifts from men,
even from the rebellious—
that you, O LORD God, might dwell there.

Praise be to the Lord, to God our Savior,
who daily bears our burdens.
Selah

Our God is a God who saves;
from the Sovereign LORD comes escape from death.

...Your procession has come into view, O God,
the procession of my God and King into the sanctuary.

In front are the singers, after them the musicians;
with them are the maidens playing tambourines.

Praise God in the great congregation;
praise the LORD in the assembly of Israel.

... Sing to God, O kingdoms of the earth,
sing praise to the Lord,
Selah

to him who rides the ancient skies above,
who thunders with mighty voice.

Proclaim the power of God,
whose majesty is over Israel,
whose power is in the skies.

You are awesome, O God, in your sanctuary;
the God of Israel gives power and strength to his people.

Praise be to God!


24 posted on 09/14/2006 2:23:39 AM PDT by .30Carbine (Jesus Is The Glory)
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To: All
"Whatever your circumstances may be, Jesus is totally sufficient"

Lead, kindly Light,
Amid th’encircling gloom, lead Thou me on!
The night is dark, and I am far from home; lead Thou me on!
Keep Thou my feet; I do not ask to see
The distant scene; one step enough for me.

I was not ever thus, nor prayed that Thou shouldst lead me on;
I loved to choose and see my path; but now lead Thou me on!
I loved the garish day, and, spite of fears,
Pride ruled my will. Remember not past years!

So long Thy power hath blest me, sure it still will lead me on.
O’er moor and fen, o’er crag and torrent, till the night is gone,
And with the morn those angel faces smile, which I
Have loved long since, and lost awhile!

Meantime, along the narrow rugged path, Thyself hast trod,
Lead, Savior, lead me home in childlike faith, home to my God.
To rest forever after earthly strife
In the calm light of everlasting life.

John Henry Newman

25 posted on 09/14/2006 2:30:54 AM PDT by .30Carbine (Jesus Is The Glory)
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To: .30Carbine

AMEN! AMEN!

- - - -

Only tangentially related: From another thread, FWIW and to those interested, I found the old hymn:

http://library.timelesstruths.org/music/Joy_Unspeakable/

I have found His grace is all complete,
He supplieth every need;
While I sit and learn at Jesus’ feet,
I am free, yes, free indeed.

Refrain:

It is joy unspeakable and full of glory,
Full of glory, full of glory;
It is joy unspeakable and full of glory,
Oh, the half has never yet been told.

I have found the pleasure I once craved,
It is joy and peace within;
What a wondrous blessing, I am saved
From the awful gulf of sin.

I have found that hope so bright and clear,
Living in the realm of grace;
Oh, the Savior’s presence is so near,
I can see His smiling face.

I have found the joy no tongue can tell,
How its waves of glory roll;
It is like a great o’erflowing well,
Springing up within my soul.


26 posted on 09/14/2006 8:06:18 AM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
I'll voluntarily follow Christ to Hell and back again and take the skin of the Devil as our trophy. And if I'm permitted to lead a host or two of Saints, better still. Either way, the Sword of the Spirit will be wielded in my hand and never surrendered.

I Love that, DieHard! Awesome Post!

27 posted on 09/14/2006 11:28:32 AM PDT by Kitty Mittens (May the Trumpet Sound Today!)
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To: .30Carbine; All
Absolutely Incredible Thread, Dear Carbine, and Thank you, Saints of our Christ, for the Blessing I Received from Every Post! Thank you to our Master of Grace!

May the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you All! (2Cor.13:14)

28 posted on 09/14/2006 11:39:28 AM PDT by Kitty Mittens (To God Be All Excellent Praise!)
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To: .30Carbine

Thank you for the beautiful passage! Praise God!!!


29 posted on 09/14/2006 9:07:20 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Quix; Kitty Mittens; Alamo-Girl

Thank you all. God keep you blessed and a blessing.


30 posted on 09/15/2006 2:29:24 AM PDT by .30Carbine ("As soon as we obey, we have discernment.")
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To: .30Carbine

Likewise.


31 posted on 09/15/2006 4:54:07 AM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: alpha-8-25-02

Gidday Alpha,

Back from Honolulu after a few days of absence. You write:

> CHAMBERS WAS STATING WE SHOULD SURRENDER TO THE LORDSHIP OF CHRIST AND NO OTHER,INCLUDING OURSELVES.

I will volunteer to serve under his Lordship. I will never surrender: He does not demand that of me. Allah demands that of his followers.

That is the difference between Christian Soldiers and Militant Muslim Dogs. They have surrendered: we haven't. They are at war by the Edict of Muhammad: we are here because we volunteered. They serve out of fear: we serve for Love of Our Lord and Master.

He *never* demanded us to surrender. He Himself took on *that* indignity on our behalf at Calvary so that we would never have to.

We are volunteers, not conscripts or surrendering POWs. And our battle cry is "Skin the Devil!"

*DieHard*


32 posted on 09/19/2006 5:40:48 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (I am the Chieftain of my Clan. I bow to nobody. Get out of my way.)
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To: .30Carbine

Gidday .30Carbine

Back from Honolulu now, sorry for not responding sooner. You write:

> Dear DieHard, I hope you will be patient with me and read my whole post, though it is a long one. I do love you and so I took extra time with this for your sake!

What you say is true and right: I guess I am triggering off on Oswald's use of the word "Surrender". Christ does not require surrender from us: we are volunteers, not POWs.

This is in keeping with Divine Intent: God wants His creation to worship Him of our own Free Will: that is why He made us free will agents, rather than robots and automatons. That is why He gave Adam and Eve the power to choose His way or the other way.

As with Adam, so with us: He wants us to voluntarily choose His way. Surrender plays no part in this choice: He isn't going to beat compliance out of us until we capitulate.

Allah, on the other hand, is quite content with surrender. If you aren't stupid enough to mindlessly follow Allah's Militant Muslim drivel, then it is perfectly OK to surrender and Obey. If you do neither, then off with your head!

Surrender, my arse! I will *never* follow anybody who requires my surrender as a pre-requisite to service. Such a "leader" would not be worthy of the burden of Leadership, and certainly not worthy of leading Christian Soldiers.

Fortunately, Christ does not require Surrender from us. In the finest tradition of all good Leaders, Christ says "Follow Me!" impying Leadership "from the front". He's going first, we follow in support.

Christ does *not* say "Stick 'em up!" -- as He would do if He required us to surrender.

Christ wants His Lads to be like Jehu, son of Nimshi. And He calls us: "Who is on my side? who?" (2 Kings 9:32)


33 posted on 09/19/2006 6:12:22 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (I am the Chieftain of my Clan. I bow to nobody. Get out of my way.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
Welcome home, dear DieHard, and thank you for taking the time to reply! I so respect your willingness and ability to discuss the things of God in Christ Jesus! Perhaps we appear to be speaking at cross purposes (I like the pun) because of varying understandings of the word submission and what it means to surrender to Christ the Will of God versus what it means to surrender to enemies

Unless Christ is one's enemy, one ought not draw back from submission to HIM, to His Word, to His Spirit! But I trust that you do not consider Christ your enemy, but your Lord.

For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
~Romans 10:3

But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:

“ God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.
~James 4:6-10

Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for

“ God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time, casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you.

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
~1 Peter 5:5-8

Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).

Wives, be subject (be submissive and adapt yourselves) to your own husbands as [a service] to the Lord.

For the husband is head of the wife as Christ is the Head of the church, Himself the Savior of [His] body.

As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.
~Ephesians 5:21-24

Submission, by definition, is a willing giving over to a greater authority. If it is forced, as you cite with the mention of the terrorists, it is not called submission, but oppression.

Submission n. About 1390 submission act of submitting; a lowering, sinking, yielding, from submers-, past participle stem of submergere to sink, SUBMERGE.
~The Barnhart Concise Dictionary of Etymology

No man can serve [submit to] two masters," said Jesus. So we must choose, and as you rightly say, we are given freedom to do so by the Creator - will we serve, submit to, God and resist the devil, or will we serve, submit to, the devil, God's enemy, and resist God?

Perhaps you did not intend it so, but your posts make it appear that you are not willing to submit [willingly submerge your will] to God.

34 posted on 09/20/2006 3:26:29 AM PDT by .30Carbine (May His Word go out with power and signs and wonders to all lurkers)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
Fortunately, Christ does not require Surrender from us.

Indeed, God does command [require, expect, will] our surrender!

"Therefore submit to God."
James 4:7

35 posted on 09/20/2006 3:40:29 AM PDT by .30Carbine (May His Word go out with power and signs and wonders to all lurkers)
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To: .30Carbine; alpha-8-25-02

> Indeed, God does command [require, expect, will] our surrender!

Nope. There is a heap of difference between submitting and surrendering.

I *never* surrender. Not even once. "Surrender" is not in my vocabulary: I do not have a white flag and I *never* quit: I'd rather die than surrender.

I will, however, voluntarily recognize higher authority and submit to it. This is what God wants from us. I am but a lowly Private in the Lord's Army, and that involves taking orders and doing what I'm told. But I'm a volunteer, not a conscript.

And I do not have permission to surrender arms, ever. Not the sword of the spirit, not the breastplate of righteousness, not any part of it, not to anyone under any circumstances.

Surrender? It will *never* happen. Dunno what the word means. Allah and his followers might. If God wants surrendering folk, maybe He doesn't want me on His side. I'd rather prefer to think He'd want me as a bodyguard, because I won't surrender, ever, to anybody, under any circumstances. And I fear nobody in Heaven or Hell or in the dominions between: respect, yes -- but fear, no.

*DieHard*


36 posted on 09/20/2006 7:19:07 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (I am the Chieftain of my Clan. I bow to nobody. Get out of my way.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
Surrender:

verb (used with object)

1. to yield (something) to the possession or power of another; deliver up possession of on demand or under duress: to surrender the fort to the enemy; to surrender the stolen goods to the police.

2. to give (oneself) up, as to the police.

3. to give (oneself) up to some influence, course, emotion, etc.: He surrendered himself to a life of hardship.

4. to give up, abandon, or relinquish (comfort, hope, etc.).

5. to yield or resign (an office, privilege, etc.) in favor of another.

verb (used without object)

6. to give oneself up, as into the power of another; submit or yield.

noun

7. the act or an instance of surrendering.

8. Insurance. the voluntary abandonment of a life-insurance policy by the owner for any of its nonforfeiture values.

9. the deed by which a legal surrendering is made.


Synonyms 1. See yield. 4. renounce. 5. waive, cede, abandon, forgo. 6. capitulate. 7. capitulation, relinquishment

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=surrender



You mention you do not know the meaning of the word "surrender" so I have posted it above. As you will see, it does have many meanings, some of which pertain to "bad" sorts of surrender, i.e., giving way to despair, or to an enemy, and some to "very good" sorts of surrender, i.e., "to yield or resign (an office, privilege, etc.) in favor of another; to give oneself up, as into the power of another; submit or yield."

You say that you will never surrender, even if that is what the Lord Almighty expects of you. Perhaps you will reconsider in light of the definition of the word now that you have that definition.

You said also that you would never surrender any of the weapons God has entrusted to you. Specifically you mention the Sword of the Spirit (with all due respect, I can't recall seeing you use it) and the breastplate of righteousness. Not long ago, on another thread, you stated many times that you would voluntarily lie to prevent your being put to death for the testimony of Jesus Christ. That would constitute a voluntary surrender not only of your armor called The Belt of Truth, but also a willing surrender to the enemy, the Father of Lies, for the sake of sparing your life.

But my life is not my own, I was bought at great price, the death of the Son of God upon the cross at Calvary. Mine was a worthless life without Him anyway, and could hardly be called "life" apart from Him, in rebellion to His Rule. I have willingly yielded control of my life to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and I have willingly accepted the Rule of His Spirit and the Rule of His Word, His Rightful Kingship over me. I do this daily, and even moment by moment, for not only is He my King, He has become my very Life, having exchanged His for mine, and to be separated from Him in any way is death.

I have ceded, yielded, abandoned, capitulated, relinquished, waived and surrendered my right to my life to His Sovereign Authority: that is what it means to be a Christian. Perhaps you do not call yourself by that Name, but that is what these Daily Reflection threads are all about - Christ, and His Rule, and how He is moving in the lives of His subjects.

As I've prayed for you lately a verse from Luke 19, a worthy parable of a Worthy Sovereign (v.27) keeps popping up. Perhaps it will help you:

"But these enemies of mine,
who did not want me to reign over them,
bring them here and slay them in my presence."
37 posted on 09/21/2006 1:43:59 AM PDT by .30Carbine
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To: .30Carbine

Having now been educated on the meaning of "Surrender" I must now confess that I will never do so. I'm not made that way.

> You said also that you would never surrender any of the weapons God has entrusted to you. Specifically you mention the Sword of the Spirit (with all due respect, I can't recall seeing you use it)

Indeed, very few people ever will: and those who have need never tell. I prefer to do my works quietly and in private.

> Not long ago, on another thread, you stated many times that you would voluntarily lie to prevent your being put to death for the testimony of Jesus Christ. That would constitute a voluntary surrender not only of your armor called The Belt of Truth, but also a willing surrender to the enemy, the Father of Lies, for the sake of sparing your life.

Or more probably the lives of others. I prefer to live to fight another day. Better a live Dog than a dead Lion.

Rahab the Harlot told lies at Jericho and (else I'm mistaken) she is a lineal ancestor of our Lord Jesus Christ. And Jacob tricked Esau. Even St Peter, who denied Christ thrice, was not condemned for doing so.

If I can fool the Devil by telling Him lies -- and if by doing so cause Him injury -- I do so with a perfectly clean conscience. And if I can take one or two of 'em with me, better still.

That is what Casuistry was invented for.

*DieHard*


38 posted on 09/21/2006 2:19:00 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (I am the Chieftain of my Clan. I bow to nobody. Get out of my way.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
I prefer to live to fight another day. Better a live Dog than a dead Lion.

Far better for the noble man who dies with blessings to Jesus, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, on his lips than to be one who betrays the Son of Man for a very temporary gain.

I prefer to do my works quietly and in private.

Except here, it appears. And in your own manish reasoning rather than in Truth.

39 posted on 09/21/2006 3:04:26 AM PDT by .30Carbine
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To: .30Carbine; All

> Except here, it appears.

OK, fine -- quite happy to never mention again any details of what I see on the streets if doing so causes you offense.

> And in your own manish reasoning rather than in Truth.

Not quite sure what you mean with this, .30Carbine. Is it an insult? To be "manish"? OK fine, smite me with the accusation of being a MAN: I care not, because *that* is what I am. Made in my Maker's Own Image, a Son of Adam and a Follower of My Lord Jesus Christ, a Volunteer and not a Conscript. A Crusader on a mission to Skin the Devil.

> Far better for the noble man who dies with blessings to Jesus, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, on his lips than to be one who betrays the Son of Man for a very temporary gain.

Are you speaking here of St Peter or Judas Iscariot? (or me?)

In the case of St Peter and Judas, both committed the same crime of betrayal. St Peter's crime was aggrivated by having been warned aforetime by Jesus that he would do so. In the case of Judas, it was mere opportunistic treachery. And for that he is and will be dam'ned.

St Peter lived to fight another day (Praise be to God!) by telling lies. The difference between St Peter and Judas was intent.


40 posted on 09/21/2006 3:26:48 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (I am the Chieftain of my Clan. I bow to nobody. Get out of my way.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
You cited Casuistry. That is why I used the word manish.

Peter did not determine ahead of time that he would betray his Lord. Far from it, he could not imagine doing such a thing. And in the end he died rather than deny His Forgiving Lord and Redeemer. Judas, on the other hand, premeditated his betrayal, thinking to gain by it; rather than gaining even 30 pieces of silver, by the path of his own premeditated betrayal he took his own life, finding no forgiveness.

"What," says the Master, "does it profit a man if he gain the whole world, but forfeit his own soul?"

I find these things very worthy of consideration.

41 posted on 09/21/2006 3:37:30 AM PDT by .30Carbine
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To: .30Carbine

So where is your complaint, ma'am? I am a Christian Soldier, a Crusader, wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove. I will use the weapons of the Devil against Him without demur.

Specifically, this means that I will lie, cheat and steal from the Devil, kick Him in the bollix and otherwise dirty-fight and inconvenience Him, without remorse or hindrance or demur. When finished, I will dance around His twitching corpse and skin him for a trophy.

And I will never Surrender to the forces of Evil. Or to anything else, for that matter: including the forces of Good (Christ does not require my Surrender, only my Obedience which I give willingly, as a Volunteer).

*DieHard the Hunter*


42 posted on 09/21/2006 3:48:53 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (I am the Chieftain of my Clan. I bow to nobody. Get out of my way.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter; .30Carbine

Theological and philosophical differences are not to be argued on devotional threads. Take it to one of the "open" threads on the Religion Forum.


43 posted on 09/21/2006 6:21:17 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator; .30Carbine

> Theological and philosophical differences are not to be argued on devotional threads. Take it to one of the "open" threads on the Religion Forum.

Thanx -- I have nothing more to say on the subject.

*DieHard*


44 posted on 09/21/2006 2:35:55 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (I am the Chieftain of my Clan. I bow to nobody. Get out of my way.)
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To: Religion Moderator

THANK YOU.


45 posted on 09/22/2006 12:55:00 AM PDT by .30Carbine
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

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