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The Sacrifice of Holy Mass
Joee Blogs - A Catholic Londoner ^ | 9/19/2006 | Joee Blogs

Posted on 09/19/2006 8:13:27 PM PDT by Pyro7480

The Sacrifice of Holy Mass

Mass is Mass.






It's perfect, whether it's celebrated in...










... the magnificent chapel at Downside Abbey with a spiritual "army" of monks, beautiful Gregorian chant and an enormous congregation...





or in...











an icey cold Basketball Court with only a few lay faithful...





Mass is Perfect!





However of course one gains nothing from having Mass in a basketball court, and can only benefit spiritually by having it in a beautiful Church, where one can better focus and concentrate in order to pray the Mass.



Here's my favorite picture, not taken by me, but edited and formatted by me of Holy Mass.




TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion; History; Prayer; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; england; latin; mass; tlm; traditional
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The above was composed by the same blogger who exposed the Mohammedan horde outside Westminster (Catholic) Cathedral in London. It's good to know he's a lover of the Traditional Latin Mass.

Here's one of my favorite pictures of the Mass:


Chaplain Gerald F. Clune conducts Catholic Mass for men of Heavy Mortar Co., 23rd Infantry Regiment, 2nd Infantry Division, at Headquarters, 14 October 1951.

1 posted on 09/19/2006 8:13:29 PM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: Siobhan; Canticle_of_Deborah; broadsword; NYer; Salvation; sandyeggo; american colleen; ...

Catholic ping!


2 posted on 09/19/2006 8:14:26 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Pyro7480
Wonderful photo.
That scene has been repeated over the last 2000 years with all Catholic soldiers off to war.


3 posted on 09/19/2006 8:16:26 PM PDT by starfish923 (Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: Pyro7480

That's a great photo. Thanks for sharing that.


4 posted on 09/19/2006 8:26:55 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: Pyro7480
The Tridentine Mass in Words and Pictures
5 posted on 09/19/2006 8:35:15 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE

6 posted on 09/19/2006 8:37:16 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: FJ290; murphE

Most of the pics aren't showing up, so go to the link above to see them.


7 posted on 09/19/2006 8:40:33 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: starfish923

Ping to post #7.


8 posted on 09/19/2006 8:40:50 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Pyro7480

I see the pictures. =D


9 posted on 09/19/2006 8:48:19 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE

Those are SSPX pictures??


10 posted on 09/19/2006 8:51:59 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Pyro7480

We have a parish that is meeting in a gym (basketball court) right now in our Archdiocese. They broke off from an oversized parish and were planning to build their own church, then everything got frozen in the bankruptcy proceedings here.

The priest who is presiding is very orthodox and I am sure the overflowing congregation is very pleased just to be meeting for the celebration of the Holy Eucharist at Sunday Mass. They also have their Sunday classes for children, etc.


11 posted on 09/19/2006 8:57:24 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

The web page clearly states The Society of St. Pius X District of Great Britain. Why?


12 posted on 09/19/2006 8:57:52 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE; Salvation; FJ290; starfish923
Here are pics I took at Brompton Oratory in London 2 years ago.


13 posted on 09/19/2006 9:08:31 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Pyro7480

wow!


14 posted on 09/19/2006 9:10:41 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Pyro7480
Here are pics I took at Brompton Oratory in London 2 years ago.

That is one beautiful place.

15 posted on 09/19/2006 9:13:45 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: murphE

I consider myself to be very blessed that I was there. At the time, they didn't have Low Traditional Masses in the main church there. But since their "Little Oratory" was undergoing renovation, they had it there. It was literally like Fr. Faber's "little slice of heaven." There were people of all ethnicities, and all ages there. It is a spectacular church. Almost everything was imported there from Italy.


16 posted on 09/19/2006 9:14:46 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: sandyeggo
Wish I knew the date/location for this. Korea, maybe?

Don't know, hard to tell. I went over to the Catholic Military website to try and find out. Didn't find anything.

It's quite humbling to view pictures as these.

18 posted on 09/19/2006 9:41:49 PM PDT by FJ290
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: sandyeggo
This is not a correct statement, assuming the Mass is said with the correct matter, intent and form.

You are correct. The first part is mistaken, but the very last part, "where one can better focus and concentrate in order to pray the Mass," is a good point.

21 posted on 09/19/2006 9:48:27 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: sandyeggo
This is not a correct statement,

I thought that too at first, but I think (he/she) just didn't word what he wanted to say properly. Given the other statements the blogger made, such as "the mass is the mass". I think what he meant to say was, that although a mass in a gym is still the mass, by having mass in a beautiful church one can better "focus and concentrate".

22 posted on 09/19/2006 9:57:13 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Pyro7480; All
AUDIO LINK:

The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass

Radio interview with Brother Alexis Bugnolo, Editor of The Franciscan Archive
Part I

For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, My Name is great among the Gentiles and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to My Name a clean oblation. For My Name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts (Malachias 1:11 Douay-Rheims). By this clean and perpetual oblation, Christ offers infinite adoration (latria), praise, & appeasement to the Father and secondly, it obtains the application to our souls and the souls in Purgatory of that which He merited for us on Calvary. The sacrifice offered on the altar, says the Council of Trent, is the same which was offered on Calvary, since it is the same Priest and the same Victim. Through our reverent & recollected participation at Mass, we encounter Our Lord, truly and substantially present under the appearance of bread & wine. This interview will be followed next Sunday by Part II on the Priesthood of Jesus Christ, Who is the Mediator between God and man.

23 posted on 09/19/2006 10:06:31 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE

Thanks murphE! I haven't listened the last one you linked to on the Cristeros, but I hope to listen to them both soon!


24 posted on 09/19/2006 10:08:03 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Pyro7480
Beautiful. I'm so glad that you were able to be there. Someday, I hope to go there, too. Cardinal Newman is sort of the patron of all of us former Anglicans fleeing to Rome.

BTW, BBC Radio broadcast the Choral Evensong from the London Oratory last week. The plainchant was simply heartachingly beautiful. I'm so used to hearing that style and elegance in Anglican churches...but to know that this was Cardinal Newman's church and that the tradition of excellence continues, it was so uplifting.

25 posted on 09/20/2006 4:22:57 AM PDT by Carolina
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To: Pyro7480
I attended the Solemn High Latin Novus Ordo at Brompton Oratory in 2005. The Mass was overwhelmingly beautiful and the chant was heavenly. The church was packed and the folks there sang out the Latin responses with enthusiasm. I didn't want it to ever end.
26 posted on 09/20/2006 5:14:44 AM PDT by k omalley (Caro Enim Mea, Vere est Cibus, et Sanguis Meus, Vere est Potus)
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To: sandyeggo

I think that by "can only benefit spiritually" they meant that it's enhanced by having it in a church, but the mass itself is perfect within itself. I had to read it a couple of times to get it.


27 posted on 09/20/2006 6:59:35 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Political Correctness is communist propaganda writ small.)
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To: k omalley; Pyro7480; sandyeggo; All
The BBC broadcast from the London Oratory is still available until noon today. Listen here. It'll be replaced this afternoon by another location. If you've never heard the Oratory choir, this is your chance to hear how well-deserved their reputation is.
28 posted on 09/20/2006 7:12:25 AM PDT by Carolina
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To: Carolina

Oh wow, thank you! I've heard one of these broadcasts from the London Oratory on the BBC before, and it was amazing! I have one of the London Oratory choir's CD's, which I bought when I was there. It's of different chants and polyphany to the Blessed Virgin Mary.


29 posted on 09/20/2006 7:18:59 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Carolina; FJ290; murphE

Ping to post #28. Listen in before noon EDT!


30 posted on 09/20/2006 7:20:04 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Carolina
Double wow! They chanted St. Anthony's Brief. That's a great and poweful prayer that I say often in Latin.
31 posted on 09/20/2006 7:26:01 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: sandyeggo
It's not 'Nam because the priest celebrated versus populo at that time.

1967. The priest is Chaplain (Maj.) Charles Watters, who won the Medal of Honor for rescuing wounded under fire, at the cost of his own life.

32 posted on 09/20/2006 8:35:16 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: sandyeggo
. . . and now we go WAY back . . .

Irish soldiers in the 69th Massachusetts regiment, attending Mass on the battlefield during the Civil War.

33 posted on 09/20/2006 8:40:52 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother

I like the camo chasuble, though.


34 posted on 09/20/2006 8:43:10 AM PDT by Theophane (Christ our King! Thy kingdom come!)
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To: Theophane
I noticed that too. Pretty cute.

He looks a little less out of place than Father O'Reilly in his biretta and rochet, doesn't he?

35 posted on 09/20/2006 8:45:16 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: Carolina

Thanks for the link. Listening to it now. Anglican Chant is nice -- it's awesome in fact, but good old Gregorian Plainchant has a charm all its own.

I've got this theory about singing chant. The singer must be absoutely rythymic, yet absolutely relaxed at the same time.


36 posted on 09/20/2006 8:47:05 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Political Correctness is communist propaganda writ small.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

OOooo -- do you know where I can find early catholic photography like that? I love that stuff.


37 posted on 09/20/2006 8:48:15 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Political Correctness is communist propaganda writ small.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

I love how they've made that tent into a church and steeple.


38 posted on 09/20/2006 8:49:10 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Political Correctness is communist propaganda writ small.)
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To: ichabod1
The best Anglican chant and the best Gregorian intersect.

I started singing in ECUSA choirs at age 6, I can sing Anglican chant in my sleep. My Gregorian cantoring has a slight Anglican flavor (mostly in the accent, although I also sing with a VERY straight tone) but a good delivery is identical.

The way our choirmaster describes it is to "sing as though you are speaking" -- the words themselves create the rhythm, and it must be a natural rhythm, without any overemphasis on the stressed syllables (which is the first common mistake in both Gregorian and Anglican chanting). Breathing is the next absolute essential, so the line can be carried through in a single breath, but in what you correctly describe as a relaxed manner.

If it were easy, we could all do it!

I still like the Anglican part-chant.

39 posted on 09/20/2006 9:28:36 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: ichabod1

No idea . . . I just googled "battlefield mass" and up it came!


40 posted on 09/20/2006 9:29:32 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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BTTT

41 posted on 09/20/2006 9:29:46 AM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: ichabod1
The singer must be absoutely rythymic, yet absolutely relaxed at the same time.

The singer has to know the text the way it's written, that's where the internal rhythm is derived--not a strict meter...to know where the stresses and unstresses fall when the text is spoken is reflected in the notes...and the singer has to be always aware of those around...to sing with one voice, no voice stands out.....to always sing at the dead center of the pitch... It really is sublime.

42 posted on 09/20/2006 9:37:59 AM PDT by Carolina
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To: AnAmericanMother
The way our choirmaster describes it is to "sing as though you are speaking" -- the words themselves create the rhythm, and it must be a natural rhythm, without any overemphasis on the stressed syllables (which is the first common mistake in both Gregorian and Anglican chanting). Breathing is the next absolute essential, so the line can be carried through in a single breath, but in what you correctly describe as a relaxed manner.

Absolutely!

43 posted on 09/20/2006 9:39:17 AM PDT by Carolina
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To: ichabod1

I think you caught the London Oratory presentation, which would be plainsong and polyphany from a Catholic church in London. It isn't Anglican chant.


44 posted on 09/20/2006 9:41:21 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Carolina
Our choirmaster is a hoot! He demonstrates "how the opera singers carry a handkerchief" to get their ribcages in the correct position . . . he's a tall, lanky Swede with an aureole of golden hair and a face like an eaglet.

He has more music in his little finger than I will ever have in my whole body. And he's a great coach - I have added four notes on the top of my range since I started singing with him. For a true contralto to be able to hit an A above the staff consistently (and a C in a pinch) is phenomenal!

45 posted on 09/20/2006 9:42:26 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother

I'm so envious. Our choir is in the thrall of Haugen/Haas/Cooney et al. "Gifts of Finest Wheat" is what passes for sublime here. "Oh, it's just beautiful" is what choir members say about this wretched piece.


46 posted on 09/20/2006 9:59:38 AM PDT by Carolina
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To: AnAmericanMother; Pyro7480

Well, ultimately Gregorian and Anglican chant are the same thing aren't they? But what developed after the reformation I think is more sophisticated. No matter -- I like Anglican Church Music the best of all, and the best of that is the best of Catholic music.

Since I've been Catholic I've been becoming more interested in what the English Roman Catholics do, with the Anglican musical tradition, but the Roman Catholic ethos.

When I was Anglican I couldn't care less what was happening in Westminster Cathedral, I only wanted to hear music out of Cambridge and Oxford.


47 posted on 09/20/2006 10:37:05 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Political Correctness is communist propaganda writ small.)
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To: Carolina
Ick. We have relegated the nasty Haugen/Haas stuff to the hymns, mostly, because unfortunately there are parishioners who think that dreck is "just beautiful". We're using the Massive Cremation, but great rejoicing because the New Words Won't Fit. Albert's already ringing in a Latin chant Mass setting, a Danish mass, and his own Mass setting (which is gorgeous, and of course he can custom fit it to the new words.)

I know I've quoted him before, but he said the first time he heard the Massive Cremation he knew it was awful and that everybody would just LOVE it. . . .

48 posted on 09/20/2006 10:43:19 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: ichabod1
The Anglican single-melody chant is essentially Gregorian.

What's usually known as "Anglican chant" is four or six-part, so not really like Gregorian except in the breathing and intonation of the words.

Here is a sample -- just as a gag, a group called the Master Singers cut a 45 with Parlophone (the Beatles' old label) back in the 60s. They sang, in four and six part Anglican chant, the portion of the British Highway Code pertaining to pedestrians . . .

Here it be, (at least part of it.) I actually have a copy!

50 posted on 09/20/2006 10:50:17 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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