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To: DouglasKC; kerryusama04
You're right, it's a day so full of significance and history. I'm awed that we celebrate the same day that God commanded to be kept thousands and thousands of years ago.
And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work. For you it is a day of blowing the trumpets. You shall offer a burnt offering as a sweet aroma to the Lord: one young bull, one ram, and seven lambs in their first year, without blemish. Their grain offering shall be fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for the bull, two-tenths for the ram, and one-tenth for each of the seven lambs; also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, to make atonement for you; besides the burnt offering with its grain offering for the New Moon, the regular burnt offering with its grain offering, and their drink offerings, according to their ordinance, as a sweet aroma, an offering made by fire to the Lord.
And you made an offering by fire to celebrate this day as it was commanded to be kept thousands of years ago?
146 posted on 09/24/2006 9:59:44 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54; DouglasKC
And you made an offering by fire to celebrate this day as it was commanded to be kept thousands of years ago?

Nope.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever.
Heb 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
Heb 13:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.
Heb 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.
Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
Heb 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
Heb 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
Heb 13:16 But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
Heb 13:18 Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly.
Heb 13:19 But I beseech you the rather to do this, that I may be restored to you the sooner.
Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

147 posted on 09/24/2006 11:08:32 AM PDT by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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To: topcat54; kerryusama04
And you made an offering by fire to celebrate this day as it was commanded to be kept thousands of years ago?

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God;

This doesn't mean that the day is done away with, but under the new covenant, it's observance has been modified. If you still have trouble understanding, then I would suggest reading all of Hebrews.

148 posted on 09/24/2006 11:17:05 AM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: topcat54
And you made an offering by fire to celebrate this day as it was commanded to be kept thousands of years ago?

I doubt that they did.

Jeremiah 7
22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

Hosea 3
4 For the children of Israel shall sit solitary many days without king, and without prince, and without sacrifice, and without pillar, and without ephod or teraphim;
5 afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek YHWH their God, and David their king; and shall come trembling unto YHWH and to His goodness in the end of days.

Hosea 6
6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Hosea 14
2 Take with you words, and return unto YHWH; say unto Him: 'Forgive all iniquity, and accept that which is good; so will we render for bullocks the offering of our lips.

Prayers instead of sacrifices.

(JPS) Isaiah 1
10 Hear the word of YHWH, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto Me? saith YHWH; I am full of the burnt-offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he-goats.
12 When ye come to appear before Me, who hath required this at your hand, to trample My courts?

13 Bring no more vain oblations; it is an offering of abomination unto Me; new moon and sabbath, the holding of convocations -- I cannot endure iniquity along with the solemn assembly.
14 Your new moons and your appointed seasons My soul hateth; they are a burden unto Me; I am weary to bear them.
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide Mine eyes from you; yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear; your hands are full of blood.

16 Wash you, make you clean, put away the evil of your doings from before Mine eyes, cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith YHWH; though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land;
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword; for the mouth of YHWH hath spoken.

These verses in my opinion really tell the story.  YHWH asks them 'who told them to sacrifice animals?'  He calls them vain oblations.  Why?  Some claim its is because the people were not contrite, but I disagree.  The iniquity among the solemn assembly IS the oblations. YHWH tells us it is because the people are doing it for themselves (vanity) of their own accord and not YHWH's.  YHWH calls them an abomination.  It is my belief that this IS why the Temple keeps getting destroyed.  Because YHWH considers the sacrifices an abomination.   YHWH even tells them that they have blood on their hands.


Psalm 51
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

1 Samuel 15:22
And Samuel said: 'Hath YHWH as great delight in burnt-offerings and sacrifices, as in hearkening to the voice of YHWH? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Psalm 40
6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

Micah 6
6 'Wherewith shall I come before YHWH, and bow myself before God on high? Shall I come before Him with burnt-offerings, with calves of a year old?
7 Will YHWH be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my first-born for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?'
8 It hath been told thee, O man, what is good, and what YHWH doth require of thee: only to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God.

Throughout the Jewish scriptures, the prophets declared that repentance and charity are more pleasing to God for atonement than a blood sacrifice. I think there is good indication that sacrifices were never meant to be. Jeremiah 7:22-24. But, since they were utilized, against YHWH's wishes, I think sacrifices were to be replaced with PRAYER! Hosea 14:2.

Notice also the verse about how YHWH doesn't require the sacrifice of a firstborn for the transgression of sin -- atonement! SPEAKS VOLUMES.

Jeremiah 31:2 Thus saith YHWH: the people that were left of the sword have found grace in the wilderness, even Israel, when I go to cause him to rest.

God promises the descendants of Israel who, through captivity, exile, and intermarriage with Gentiles became assimilated and inculturated Gentiles today that they will find "grace in the wilderness".

The exile mentioned in Isaiah

From the JPS (1917) Jewish Bible Tanakh
8 In full measure, when Thou sendest her away, Thou dost contend with her; He hath removed her with His rough blast in the day of the east wind.
9 Therefore by this shall the iniquity of Jacob be expiated, and this is all the fruit of taking away his sin: when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in pieces, so that the Asherim and the sun-images shall rise no more.

Their exile was their atonement. No blood.  

149 posted on 09/24/2006 2:04:04 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny) (John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a MAN that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God:)
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