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Satan's Arsenal: "The Seven Deadly Sins"
GeoCities.com ^ | not available | Peter and Paul Ministries

Posted on 09/25/2006 9:24:24 AM PDT by Salvation

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To: murphE
Have you never heard any faithful priest reiterate this infallibly defined doctrine?

Only as I have cited above. Have you ever heard a faithful priest say that those who have never been exposed to Catholic teaching cannot be saved? That was the nature of my first post to William Terrell.

51 posted on 09/25/2006 5:17:13 PM PDT by LisaFab
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To: murphE
It is not pride to believe, accept and profess truth.

But all that are prideful would say the same thing.

52 posted on 09/25/2006 5:17:51 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: A CA Guy

LOL!


53 posted on 09/25/2006 5:20:12 PM PDT by HoosierHawk
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To: William Terrell
Not what I said. Let's try it this way. As a Catholic, I believe that the Church is the body of Christ and therefore the only path to salvation.

But the Church teaches (and please note the use of the words "may," "can" and "possibility"):

People who have never had an opportunity to hear of Christ and his Church—and those Christians whose minds have been closed to the truth of the Church by their conditioning—are not necessarily cut off from God’s mercy. Vatican II phrases the doctrine in these terms:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their consciences—those too may achieve eternal salvation (LG 16).

Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery (Gaudium et Spes 22).

The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches:

Every man who is ignorant of the gospel of Christ and of his Church but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity (CCC 1260).


54 posted on 09/25/2006 5:22:35 PM PDT by LisaFab
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To: LisaFab

Excellent!


55 posted on 09/25/2006 5:25:07 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
I agree, the word is "total". However, not being in the Catholic church, chastising the Catholic church and refusing to join into or accept that church's doctrine in ecclesiastical or temporal matters, would indicate "total", wouldn't it?

56 posted on 09/25/2006 5:27:02 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: William Terrell
But all that are prideful would say the same thing.

But only those in error would be guilty of pride. Someone who is adamant that 2+2=4, who refuses to accept that 2+2 may also equal 5 is not guilty of pride.

P.S. I like your purple apple.

57 posted on 09/25/2006 5:28:17 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: William Terrell

I don't think so. But others may differ. Actually, God has the answer for you and for me; we will just have to wait until we die to find out. LOL!


58 posted on 09/25/2006 5:29:51 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

Thanks for the ping! I love these threads and read them all the time.


59 posted on 09/25/2006 5:39:02 PM PDT by LisaFab
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To: LisaFab
So, you're saying that if I have heard of Christ and the existence and doctrine of the Catholic church, and I don't believe consciously, by careful consideration, that the Catholic church has the only truth and pathway, or has them at all, I am not saved?

The words of Vatican II you quote says no such thing, and mentions no church at all.

60 posted on 09/25/2006 5:39:53 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: William Terrell
The words of Vatican II you quote says no such thing, and mentions no church at all.

Did you not read the words "Christ and of his Church?"

Just "hearing" about the Church and its doctrine would not be sufficient to meet the conditions laid out above. Without the Sacraments, you would have no way of knowing the truths of the Church (capital "C").

61 posted on 09/25/2006 5:47:27 PM PDT by LisaFab
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To: Salvation

Great list, thanks for posting it.


62 posted on 09/25/2006 5:49:23 PM PDT by diamond6 (Everyone who is for abortion have been born. Ronald Reagan)
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To: William Terrell

And again, let me point out respectfully that you continue to use the word "saved" in the present tense. In dealing with the Church, that is considered "presumption," not a good thing :-)


63 posted on 09/25/2006 5:50:24 PM PDT by LisaFab
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To: A CA Guy

"We are not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and we will be healed!"

Or, as it was before the modernists ripped its guts out, "Lord, I am not worthy that You should come under my roof; but only say the word and my spirit shall be healed."


64 posted on 09/25/2006 7:10:31 PM PDT by dsc
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To: dsc
I was Paraphrasing a scripture for the concept that no matter what the 7 deadly sins are, or any sin for that matter, man is susceptible due to a sin nature and must rely on God for everything because NOTHING about us is worthy to enter the Kingdom of Heaven on our own merits.

Lord I am not worthy, but only say the word and I shall be healed.

We're not worthy ... so just accept it In the true Christian vision of God's love, the idea of worthiness loses its significance. Revelation of the mercy of God makes the whole problem of unworthiness almost laughable: the discovery that worthiness is of no special consequence (since no one could ever, by himself, be strictly worthy to be loved with such a love) is a true liberation of the spirit. And until this discovery is made, until this liberation has been brought about by the divine mercy, man is imprisoned in hate.

Thomas Merton, from New Seeds of Contemplation, chapter 10

65 posted on 09/25/2006 7:21:16 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: William Terrell
* Stating one is already saved.

I don't think stating one is already "saved" comes under the banner of pride! It's thankfulness for the grace of God and the sacrifice of Christ who DIED to SAVE us. Those who accept his sacrifice for their sins and invite Jesus into their hearts are saved from the penalty of eternal hell. Stating so is for His praise and glory, not our own!

66 posted on 09/25/2006 7:56:14 PM PDT by pray4liberty (School District horrors: http://totallyunjust.tripod.com)
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To: LisaFab

SO true.


67 posted on 09/25/2006 8:22:05 PM PDT by The Cuban
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To: technochick99
I know in theory that venial sins need not be mentioned, but, I do get confused about what constitutes a mortal sin. I would assume these are mortal sins, or...?

The conditions of mortal sin are knowledge, free will and grave matter. You have to know it is a sin, choose to commit it and it has to be serious.

BTW, it is a good idea for us to confess any of the venial sins that we can recall at the time of confession. Most especially any that we commit regularly. This helps to break the "attachment to the sin".

I hope this was helpful to you.

68 posted on 09/25/2006 8:30:23 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter
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To: Salvation

Have you read the Scott Hahn book "Lord Have Mercy"? He traces the sacrament of confession from its OT roots starting with Adam and Eve. Very compelling reading.


69 posted on 09/25/2006 8:36:08 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter
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To: Salvation

Thank you very much for posting this. As a convert I have never seen such a clear and succinct list and I've certainly never heard anything about them in mass. A first step to avoiding sin is learning to recognize it.


70 posted on 09/25/2006 8:51:50 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
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To: diamond6

Glad you liked it. It certainly made me think!


71 posted on 09/25/2006 9:35:19 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: dsc

I believe that translation is coming back!


72 posted on 09/25/2006 9:36:02 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: pray4liberty

** Those who accept his sacrifice for their sins and invite Jesus into their hearts are saved from the penalty of eternal hell. Stating so is for His praise and glory, not our own!**

Even if they were to go out on a killing spree and kill six or so people???? I don't think so!


73 posted on 09/25/2006 9:37:47 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Straight Vermonter

**BTW, it is a good idea for us to confess any of the venial sins**

Agree 100%. And the more often one will go to Confession the more often we might be confessing venial sins.


74 posted on 09/25/2006 9:39:44 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Sounds very good. Thanks for the recommendation.

Have you read his books, The Last Supper and Swear to God.

The Last Supper has to do with the Mass and parallels in the Book of Revelation.

Swear to God has to do with all the Sacraments and the holy oaths that they contain.


75 posted on 09/25/2006 9:41:27 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Ronaldus Magnus

**A first step to avoiding sin is learning to recognize it.**

That's exactly why someone was saying above that you must realize it is a sin first.


76 posted on 09/25/2006 9:42:42 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

Yikes, I admit that I fall short of the ideal in many of those categories!


77 posted on 09/25/2006 9:43:53 PM PDT by Ciexyz (Leaning on the everlasting arms.)
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To: William Terrell
Faith-sharing bump.
78 posted on 09/25/2006 9:50:49 PM PDT by Ciexyz (Leaning on the everlasting arms.)
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To: Salvation
* The total rejection of the Catholic Church.

So, if you think that the Catholic Church is full of idol worshippers, pedophiles, and hypocrites than I guess you're going straight to hell right?
79 posted on 09/25/2006 9:55:31 PM PDT by phoenix0468 (http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)
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To: phoenix0468
So, if you think that the Catholic Church is full of idol worshippers, pedophiles, and hypocrites than I guess you're going straight to hell right?

Where there is breath there is hope.

80 posted on 09/25/2006 10:08:27 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Ronaldus Magnus
As a convert I have never seen such a clear and succinct list and I've certainly never heard anything about them in mass.

Here are some more succinct lists you may like:

Lists Every Catholic Should be Familiar With

81 posted on 09/25/2006 10:16:51 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Ciexyz

**I admit that I fall short of the ideal in many of those categories!**

Me, too!


82 posted on 09/25/2006 10:41:59 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: phoenix0468

**So, if you think that the Catholic Church is full of idol worshippers, pedophiles, and hypocrites than I guess you're going straight to hell right?**

You are going to an extreme here, don't you think? What about all the good Catholics? That word "full" did you in there. LOL! (It left no room even one sincere Catholic!)


83 posted on 09/25/2006 10:44:06 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: murphE

LOL! I remember sending that link to my parish priest and our webmaster for inclusion on our website! And it's there! WooHoo!


84 posted on 09/25/2006 10:45:40 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
I just know what the bible says:

Gen 3:12-13 12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. 13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Sounds like the blame game to me.

85 posted on 09/25/2006 11:33:41 PM PDT by John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?
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To: John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?

God asks the question not because he wants to know the answer (he surely knows what they have done) but because he is offering them a chance to confess. Instead of immediate repentance, as you say, they play the blame game. Some things, unfortunately, never change.


86 posted on 09/25/2006 11:38:37 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter
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To: murphE
Thank you, but it supposed to ba a blue apple.

But, each that are pridful do not think they are in error, and have evidence to back up their rightness.

87 posted on 09/26/2006 9:05:22 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: Salvation
I just can't wait. . .

88 posted on 09/26/2006 9:06:21 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: LisaFab
Did you not read the words "Christ and of his Church?" Just "hearing" about the Church and its doctrine would not be sufficient to meet the conditions laid out above. Without the Sacraments, you would have no way of knowing the truths of the Church (capital "C").

Ah, so then I'm not saved unless I become a Catholic. Or, to not be saved I must become a Catholic and become possessed of the sacraments then fall away. The doctrine is confusing.

Let's be clear. I am not a Catholic. I accept Christ as my Lord and Savior. I know much of Catholic doctrine and I reject it as mostly pronouncements of a council of fallible and corruptible men.

Am I saved, by your doctrine? And, If I am not, then what must I do to become saved?

"Christ and His Church" has to do with the body of believers regardless of denomination, and regardless of what the Catholic church thinks.

89 posted on 09/26/2006 9:14:45 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: LisaFab
The entire Catholic deals in "presumption", as I read its believers, which, I agree, is not a good thing.

90 posted on 09/26/2006 9:16:24 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: pray4liberty
I agree.

91 posted on 09/26/2006 9:19:25 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: Salvation

Hey, I'm just asking the question. In response to what was listed on the "Seven Deadly Sins". I know there are good Catholics, I have many in my family. I also know some people who have the views that I expressed in my question (not my views mind you). Therefore I posed the question.


92 posted on 09/26/2006 2:44:40 PM PDT by phoenix0468 (http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)
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To: murphE

It would be nice if you would have added the comment that I was responding to. I will let you know that I don't hold these views, but there are a heck of a lot of Southern Baptists who do (a Christian denomination that is very popular where I live).

What my question poses is, does a negative opinion of Catholicism negate your reward.


93 posted on 09/26/2006 2:47:07 PM PDT by phoenix0468 (http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)
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To: William Terrell
Please reread what I posted above. To a Catholic it is not confusing at all. This is what I meant when I said that without the benefits of the sacraments it would be impossible to understand.

Here's how one of my parish priests puts it: To attempt and to understand how to "be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect," is impossible for human nature. The sacraments provide the 'supernatural', that is, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, through which understanding becomes possible.

No one is saved by doctrine, and despite your characterization of my faith as "mostly pronouncements of a council of fallible and corruptible men," I wish you well and will pray for your salvation.

94 posted on 09/26/2006 3:23:26 PM PDT by LisaFab
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To: phoenix0468

And it is a valid question.


95 posted on 09/26/2006 5:21:44 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: LisaFab
I agree. No one is saved by doctrine. In my experience doctrine is often a hinerance. The Catholic church is the mother of doctrine. I often chastise it for that. The Lord preached faith.

96 posted on 09/26/2006 6:44:56 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: Salvation

"Envy" seems to be the most perfidious of the seven deadly sins. It opens the spirit up to a host of other evils, and therefore is in the "nasty" category, IMO.


97 posted on 09/26/2006 8:30:26 PM PDT by Ciexyz (Leaning on the everlasting arms.)
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To: Salvation
Even if they were to go out on a killing spree and kill six or so people???? I don't think so!

I don't know specifically who you are talking about, however in the final analysis, it won't matter what you or I think or how we judge. Only God can judge perfectly and if a person has truly repented. Only God knows the heart of that sinner. Only God is merciful.

By the same token suppose a girl had six abortions....are you saying she can never be forgiven, or saved?

Moses was a murderer, and so was St. Paul--he was complicit in getting many of the early converts locked up and killed. In fact that was why he was going to Damascus in the first place, for the purpose of persecution...and murder.

98 posted on 09/26/2006 10:10:25 PM PDT by pray4liberty (School District horrors: http://totallyunjust.tripod.com)
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To: Salvation; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; ...
How to Go to Confession
Examination of Conscience
Reasons for Confession [Sacrament of Reconciliation]
A Guide for Confession
How To Make a Good Confession (especially if you haven't gone in years)
Lesson 19: Confession (Part 1) BY FATHER ALTIER
Lesson 20: Confession (Part 2) BY FATHER ROBERT ALTIER

99 posted on 09/26/2006 10:47:00 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, geese, algae)
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To: murphE
Lists Every Catholic Should be Familiar With

What a great resource! Thank you very much for posting this.

100 posted on 09/27/2006 3:09:12 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
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