Skip to comments.Satan's Arsenal: "The Seven Deadly Sins"
Posted on 09/25/2006 9:24:24 AM PDT by Salvation
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Only as I have cited above. Have you ever heard a faithful priest say that those who have never been exposed to Catholic teaching cannot be saved? That was the nature of my first post to William Terrell.
But all that are prideful would say the same thing.
But the Church teaches (and please note the use of the words "may," "can" and "possibility"):
People who have never had an opportunity to hear of Christ and his Churchand those Christians whose minds have been closed to the truth of the Church by their conditioningare not necessarily cut off from Gods mercy. Vatican II phrases the doctrine in these terms:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their consciencesthose too may achieve eternal salvation (LG 16).
Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery (Gaudium et Spes 22).
The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches:
Every man who is ignorant of the gospel of Christ and of his Church but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity (CCC 1260).
But only those in error would be guilty of pride. Someone who is adamant that 2+2=4, who refuses to accept that 2+2 may also equal 5 is not guilty of pride.
P.S. I like your purple apple.
I don't think so. But others may differ. Actually, God has the answer for you and for me; we will just have to wait until we die to find out. LOL!
Thanks for the ping! I love these threads and read them all the time.
The words of Vatican II you quote says no such thing, and mentions no church at all.
Did you not read the words "Christ and of his Church?"
Just "hearing" about the Church and its doctrine would not be sufficient to meet the conditions laid out above. Without the Sacraments, you would have no way of knowing the truths of the Church (capital "C").
Great list, thanks for posting it.
And again, let me point out respectfully that you continue to use the word "saved" in the present tense. In dealing with the Church, that is considered "presumption," not a good thing :-)
"We are not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and we will be healed!"
Or, as it was before the modernists ripped its guts out, "Lord, I am not worthy that You should come under my roof; but only say the word and my spirit shall be healed."
Lord I am not worthy, but only say the word and I shall be healed.
We're not worthy ... so just accept it In the true Christian vision of God's love, the idea of worthiness loses its significance. Revelation of the mercy of God makes the whole problem of unworthiness almost laughable: the discovery that worthiness is of no special consequence (since no one could ever, by himself, be strictly worthy to be loved with such a love) is a true liberation of the spirit. And until this discovery is made, until this liberation has been brought about by the divine mercy, man is imprisoned in hate.
Thomas Merton, from New Seeds of Contemplation, chapter 10
I don't think stating one is already "saved" comes under the banner of pride! It's thankfulness for the grace of God and the sacrifice of Christ who DIED to SAVE us. Those who accept his sacrifice for their sins and invite Jesus into their hearts are saved from the penalty of eternal hell. Stating so is for His praise and glory, not our own!
The conditions of mortal sin are knowledge, free will and grave matter. You have to know it is a sin, choose to commit it and it has to be serious.
BTW, it is a good idea for us to confess any of the venial sins that we can recall at the time of confession. Most especially any that we commit regularly. This helps to break the "attachment to the sin".
I hope this was helpful to you.
Have you read the Scott Hahn book "Lord Have Mercy"? He traces the sacrament of confession from its OT roots starting with Adam and Eve. Very compelling reading.
Thank you very much for posting this. As a convert I have never seen such a clear and succinct list and I've certainly never heard anything about them in mass. A first step to avoiding sin is learning to recognize it.
Glad you liked it. It certainly made me think!
I believe that translation is coming back!
** Those who accept his sacrifice for their sins and invite Jesus into their hearts are saved from the penalty of eternal hell. Stating so is for His praise and glory, not our own!**
Even if they were to go out on a killing spree and kill six or so people???? I don't think so!
**BTW, it is a good idea for us to confess any of the venial sins**
Agree 100%. And the more often one will go to Confession the more often we might be confessing venial sins.
Sounds very good. Thanks for the recommendation.
Have you read his books, The Last Supper and Swear to God.
The Last Supper has to do with the Mass and parallels in the Book of Revelation.
Swear to God has to do with all the Sacraments and the holy oaths that they contain.
**A first step to avoiding sin is learning to recognize it.**
That's exactly why someone was saying above that you must realize it is a sin first.
Yikes, I admit that I fall short of the ideal in many of those categories!
Where there is breath there is hope.
Here are some more succinct lists you may like:
**I admit that I fall short of the ideal in many of those categories!**
**So, if you think that the Catholic Church is full of idol worshippers, pedophiles, and hypocrites than I guess you're going straight to hell right?**
You are going to an extreme here, don't you think? What about all the good Catholics? That word "full" did you in there. LOL! (It left no room even one sincere Catholic!)
LOL! I remember sending that link to my parish priest and our webmaster for inclusion on our website! And it's there! WooHoo!
Gen 3:12-13 12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. 13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
Sounds like the blame game to me.
God asks the question not because he wants to know the answer (he surely knows what they have done) but because he is offering them a chance to confess. Instead of immediate repentance, as you say, they play the blame game. Some things, unfortunately, never change.
But, each that are pridful do not think they are in error, and have evidence to back up their rightness.
Ah, so then I'm not saved unless I become a Catholic. Or, to not be saved I must become a Catholic and become possessed of the sacraments then fall away. The doctrine is confusing.
Let's be clear. I am not a Catholic. I accept Christ as my Lord and Savior. I know much of Catholic doctrine and I reject it as mostly pronouncements of a council of fallible and corruptible men.
Am I saved, by your doctrine? And, If I am not, then what must I do to become saved?
"Christ and His Church" has to do with the body of believers regardless of denomination, and regardless of what the Catholic church thinks.
Hey, I'm just asking the question. In response to what was listed on the "Seven Deadly Sins". I know there are good Catholics, I have many in my family. I also know some people who have the views that I expressed in my question (not my views mind you). Therefore I posed the question.
It would be nice if you would have added the comment that I was responding to. I will let you know that I don't hold these views, but there are a heck of a lot of Southern Baptists who do (a Christian denomination that is very popular where I live).
What my question poses is, does a negative opinion of Catholicism negate your reward.
Here's how one of my parish priests puts it: To attempt and to understand how to "be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect," is impossible for human nature. The sacraments provide the 'supernatural', that is, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, through which understanding becomes possible.
No one is saved by doctrine, and despite your characterization of my faith as "mostly pronouncements of a council of fallible and corruptible men," I wish you well and will pray for your salvation.
And it is a valid question.
"Envy" seems to be the most perfidious of the seven deadly sins. It opens the spirit up to a host of other evils, and therefore is in the "nasty" category, IMO.
I don't know specifically who you are talking about, however in the final analysis, it won't matter what you or I think or how we judge. Only God can judge perfectly and if a person has truly repented. Only God knows the heart of that sinner. Only God is merciful.
By the same token suppose a girl had six abortions....are you saying she can never be forgiven, or saved?
Moses was a murderer, and so was St. Paul--he was complicit in getting many of the early converts locked up and killed. In fact that was why he was going to Damascus in the first place, for the purpose of persecution...and murder.
What a great resource! Thank you very much for posting this.