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Radical Muslims attack two churches Iraq: demand catholics post condemnation of pope's words
Asia News ^ | September 25, 2006

Posted on 09/25/2006 1:20:31 PM PDT by NYer

Muslim militias have forced Christians to pin up posters condemning the words of Benedict XVI in Regensburg. But religious leaders, including al Sistani, have expressed their friendship with the Apostolic Nunciature. And the representative of the Iraqi Shiite leader would like to meet the pope.

Baghdad (AsiaNews) – The start of the month of Ramadan in Iraq was marked by violence but also by significant openness by al Sistani towards the Vatican. Yesterday, two churches, one in Baghdad and another in Mosul, were struck. Recently, the country has seen an escalation of attacks against Christians, thought by some to be the reaction of radical Muslims to the speech of the pope in Regensburg. However, religious leaders, among them al Sistani, have shown solidarity and understanding towards the Vatican. Moreover, the representative of the highest religious exponent of Iraqi Shiites has expressed the desire to be able to visit the Pope.

Yesterday morning at 11.15am local time, armed men attacked the Chaldean Church of the Holy Spirit in Mosul, firing at least 80 shots on the building. “Thank God there was no Mass at the time,” one member of the community told AsiaNews, “so no one was killed or injured, there was just some damage done to the eastern part of the building and a few broken windows.”

The atmosphere in the city is very tense. Recently, Muslim militias threatened the Catholic bishop and priests that unless they publicly condemned the address of the pope at the University of Regensburg within 72 hours, Christians would be killed and churches burned down. In recent years, some churches, shrines and even the bishop’s house were the target of terrorist attacks. For fear of further attacks, the bishop had posters put up to say that “neither Iraqi Christians nor the pope want to destroy ties with Muslims”.

Defying the prevailing atmosphere of terror, last night, Chaldean Catholics left their homes to participate in Vespers Mass in the very church that had been attacked. “Our faith is a challenge to violence. The militias fear us because our faith is stronger than their bullets,” a Christian told AsiaNews.

Yesterday morning in Baghdad, two bombs went off outside the Assyrian Orthodox Church of St Mary in the central neighbourhood of Karrada. The attackers put a bomb under the parish priest’s car. The blast, that took place at 9.30am, drew many people, including some from the parish. Immediately afterwards another bomb went off close by, injuring many people and killing a watchman of the church.

Some think these bombs targeted Christians in the wake of the controversy surrounding the pope’s speech in Regensburg. But in recent days, Orthodox communities distanced themselves from the words of the pope, putting up posters outside their churches expressing their disagreement with him. Some Catholic figures said the attack on St Mary’s Church was much more likely a vendetta based on ethnic-religious motives: the Assyrian Orthodox Patriarch recently visited communities in Kurdistan and probably the bombs were meant to be a threat by Sunni or Shiite militias against such ties with Kurds.

The lecture of Benedict XVI in Regensburg was misunderstood by the media as being an attack on Islam. Although the pope explained the true meaning of his words several times over, bitter and threatening criticisms continue to come from many sectors of Islam. In Iraq, it is fundamentalist and political Muslim splinter groups that are reacting violently to the pope’s address. Recently, the Secretary of the Nunciature in Baghdad, Mgr Thomas Halim Abib, met religious representatives of Islam and offered them an Arabic translation of the words of the pope, so Muslim leaders would be able to understand the true meaning of what was said. Muslim religious leaders undertake the task of informing their communities. Mgr Thomas told AsiaNews that in these days, the official representative of the Grand Ayatollah al Sistani, the undisputed leader of Shiite Islam in Iraq, visited the Vatican Nunciature twice to express friendship and solidarity. The representative of al Sistani accepted the explanations rendered by the Nunciature and spread them among all Iraqi Shiite communities, expressing respect for the Holy See “that has always been close to the Iraqi people”. The representative of the grand ayatollah also said he wished to go to Rome to visit Pope Benedict XVI.



TOPICS: Activism; Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; History; Islam; Moral Issues; Orthodox Christian; Prayer; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: assyrian; baghdad; benedictxvi; catholic; chaldean; iraq; mosul; muslim; orthodox; patriarch; pope
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1 posted on 09/25/2006 1:20:33 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
The atmosphere in the city is very tense. Recently, Muslim militias threatened the Catholic bishop and priests that unless they publicly condemned the address of the pope at the University of Regensburg within 72 hours, Christians would be killed and churches burned down.
2 posted on 09/25/2006 1:21:35 PM PDT by NYer ("That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah." Hillel)
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To: NYer
But in recent days, Orthodox communities distanced themselves from the words of the pope, putting up posters outside their churches expressing their disagreement with him.

Dhimmification marches on. There's nothing to disagree with, as I'm sure most Orthodox know full well. What these folks don't understand is that if we don't all hang together (as Ben Franklin said), we shall surely all hang separately.

3 posted on 09/25/2006 1:26:11 PM PDT by livius
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To: NYer

Can this be true about al-Sistani? If so, the Holy Father's very risky gambit may be turning and splitting at least part of the Umma. I hardly know what to believe or to dare to hope for. I feel ashamed of myself for neglecting my Rosary. God bless Benedict XVI!


4 posted on 09/25/2006 1:29:05 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Pray for the Pontifex.)
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To: NYer
Recently, the Secretary of the Nunciature in Baghdad, Mgr Thomas Halim Abib, met religious representatives of Islam and offered them an Arabic translation of the words of the pope, so Muslim leaders would be able to understand the true meaning of what was said.

prayers for the Monsignor's safety. God bless him and the Iraqi Christians.

5 posted on 09/25/2006 1:34:36 PM PDT by Nihil Obstat (viva il papa - be not afraid)
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To: Kolokotronis

Orthodox ping!


6 posted on 09/25/2006 1:36:23 PM PDT by NYer ("That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah." Hillel)
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To: NYer

It's not like attacking churches in Iraq is anything new, with or without the Pope's speech.


7 posted on 09/25/2006 1:38:31 PM PDT by Jaded (does it really need a sarcasm tag?)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
The entire leadership elite among the Ayatollahs who rule Iran spent 20 or more years in exile in France, living it up, drinking demon rum, debauching women not their wives, injecting hard narcotics, consorting with Christians, and so forth.

Besides, they are Shia, not Sunni.

Don't mean a thing!

8 posted on 09/25/2006 1:45:18 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: NYer

Why should Catholics condemn something anyone said that is true? The muslims are just proving it so. They should apologize for the truth?


9 posted on 09/25/2006 1:56:30 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

SEND THEM SAMIR GEAGEA to TEACH THEM SOME "BASIC ELEMENTS OF SELF DEFENSE & SURVIVAL"....


10 posted on 09/25/2006 2:09:49 PM PDT by Traianus (YES I GOT HIM! MUHAMMAD IS 666....)
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To: NYer
This is what does and will continue to happen when our brave troops are given KGC warfighting rules and THEN told to prop up a government whose constitution states

NO LAW SHALL CONTRADICT ISLAM.

We need to stop paying and bleeding for Islam. Democracy nor Freedom can co-exsist with islam.
11 posted on 09/25/2006 2:43:14 PM PDT by TomasUSMC ((FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.))
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To: livius; NYer

The "Orthodox" this article is referring to are the Assyrians who broke with the ancient Patriarchates, including Rome, over the condemnation of Nestorius. They, among other things, objected to the term Theotokos, preferring Christotokos, so you can see how early that split came. They are not really Orthodox as any of us understand the term. They broke off around 431.

I think you will find that the attitude expressed by +Christodoulos of Athens best represents the position of those Orthodox Churches which have any real freedom of action.


12 posted on 09/25/2006 2:44:33 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis

I agree, I think the larger Orthodox Churches definitely know what the stakes in this are. Interestingly, one of the things that enabled Mohammed to take over was the plethora of small "local" churches that were only loosely connected to the whole, as a result of the many heresies that circulated through the Christian world at that time (and the backdraft of the major heresy, the Arian heresy). I hope the Assyrians think twice before they declare their allegiance to the wrong side!


13 posted on 09/25/2006 3:22:59 PM PDT by livius
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To: livius; NYer
Article: Orthodox communities distanced themselves from the words of the pope, putting up posters outside their churches expressing their disagreement with him

Livius: Dhimmification marches on

The question is which Orthodox? Oriental or Eastern? But what is much more important is that not a single Muslim leader made any attempt to curb the ire of the militants. Where are our friends and allies among "moderate" Muslims? Not a single public statement demanding an end of ongoing rant, not a single voice of moderation.

Why? Either they agree with the militants, or they are scared of their own. I would say both. Every Muslim in his heart cannot be a Muslims and have room for a Christian. Islam forbids it! "Make no friends with Christians and Jews..." says the book of the moon god. How can anyone be a Muslim in his heart and soul and not obey that?

Self-styled Bosnian Muslim ex-president Alija Izetbegovic wrote in his famous "Islamic Declaration" (republished in 1990, just prior to the ourbreak of the Bosnian civil war) that there can not co-exist a peaceful relationship between Islamic and non-Islamic communities precisely for the reasons mentioned above. Those who talk about "moderate" Muslims and possible co-existence know nothing about Islam.

14 posted on 09/25/2006 3:24:30 PM PDT by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

Kolokotronis has some information in his post above about that particular church, which I wasn't aware of. I think the vital thing is not to let the Muslims split us up, because that is one of the ways they have conquered before. Granted, Christian disunity has long been a scandal and should have been healed long before now, particularly among the Orthodox and the Catholics, but it's now becoming something that is going to threaten our very existence.


15 posted on 09/25/2006 3:29:15 PM PDT by livius
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To: NYer; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...
the religion of peace alert.

Catholic Churches have been attacked by muslims for centuries, it has nothing to do with what a pope said or what an emperor said over 500 years ago. They just hate Christians.
16 posted on 09/25/2006 3:34:22 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, geese, algae)
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To: Coleus

As I mentioned in a Freepmail to you recently.....


17 posted on 09/25/2006 3:37:22 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available at KnightsForLife.org)
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To: NYer
The atmosphere in the city is very tense. Recently, Muslim militias threatened the Catholic bishop and priests that unless they publicly condemned the address of the pope at the University of Regensburg within 72 hours, Christians would be killed and churches burned down.

Just another peaceful threat from the religion of peace!!!

18 posted on 09/25/2006 3:41:07 PM PDT by NRA2BFree
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To: Jaded
It's not like attacking churches in Iraq is anything new, with or without the Pope's speech.

It's getting worse ... far worse. It's only a matter of time before all christians are driven out of these holy lands.

19 posted on 09/25/2006 4:25:38 PM PDT by NYer ("That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah." Hillel)
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To: livius; kosta50
"Interestingly, one of the things that enabled Mohammed to take over was the plethora of small "local" churches that were only loosely connected to the whole, as a result of the many heresies that circulated through the Christian world at that time (and the backdraft of the major heresy, the Arian heresy)."

An excellent observation, L. I might add that one of the fundamental reasons why Mahammedanism spread so quickly across North Africa was on account of the damage done to The Church there by Donatism, a very, very long lived heresy which crops its head up even to this day. As +Isidore of Pelusium wrote: "Just as the fishermen hide the hook with bait and covertly hook the fish, similarly, the crafty allies of the heresies cover their evil teachings and corrupt understanding with pietism and hook the more simple, bringing them to spiritual death."

20 posted on 09/25/2006 4:33:01 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: livius; Kolokotronis
Kolokotronis has some information in his post above about that particular church, which I wasn't aware of

Thanks, I didn't see Kolo's post before I posted mine in #14, which is why I said "which" Orthodox church. But I guess he beat me to it. Not bad for an "old" Greek. :)

Apropos the article, what is there to "disagree" with the Pope on this? He merely quoted a Byznatine emperor who appraently knew the Muslims better than some of our politicians!

21 posted on 09/25/2006 4:37:27 PM PDT by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Kolokotronis; kosta50

I read somewhere - perhaps on FR? - that the Turkish government (can this be correct?) - has legislated that no one can become Ecumenical Patriarch unless he was born in Turkey????

Is that true????

There was a situation decades ago in some Latin American countries where American missionary Fathers, members of Religious Orders (e.g. Carmelites) could not become Bishops of dioceses if they continued to hold American citizenship.

But it struck me that for a secular or Islamic government yo shackle a whole Church, like the Greek Orthodox Church, in the naming of its own Patriarch, would be like the Italian government forbidding the election of anyone as Pope who had not been born in Italy.


22 posted on 09/25/2006 5:03:25 PM PDT by TaxachusettsMan
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To: NYer
And the persecutions continue:

‘Serious’ threats made against 31 churches in Indonesia[Catholics and Protestants
Saudi Arabia arrests Eastern-rite Catholic priest for celebrating Mass
Catholic Priest Arrested and Expelled from Riyadh
Ramallah: Islamic violence targets Christians
Moslem Terror Chasing Out 1,000 Christian Arabs a Year

INDIA: VIOLENCE SCARS EASTER WEEK (Pastors beaten, churches vandalized by Hindu extremists)
GFA Urges Prayer as Hindu Extremists Intensify Anti-Christian Persecution
Persecution of Catholics still alive, oppression’s face fanatic, traditional
The community of Arab Christians is dwindling in the Holy Land
Christian martyr in 'European' Turkey

(Irish) Teen Killed Just for Being Catholic, Says Priest
Vatican Unease Over Islamic Countries
Priest stabbed in Turkey in third recent assault against Catholic clergy
Mother Teresa’s Sisters Are Hostage to Fanatic Hinduists
Discriminating Against Religion

India's bishops condemn deadly blasts in Mumbai
Priest abducted in Baghdad threatened and tortured
Salesian Priest, 70, Stabbed in Germany (by a Turk)
Muslim Militants Attack Catholic School in Kashmir
Murdered Nun Asked Forgivness for (Ismaofacist Scum) Killers As She Lay Dying

Three men sentenced to death denied last Sacraments in Indonesia
Indonesia Executes 3 Catholics Over Muslim Deaths
Indonesia Government Executes Christians: Firing Squad
Radical Muslims attack two churches Iraq: demand catholics post condemnation of pope's words

23 posted on 09/25/2006 5:12:04 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: TaxachusettsMan

"I read somewhere - perhaps on FR? - that the Turkish government (can this be correct?) - has legislated that no one can become Ecumenical Patriarch unless he was born in Turkey????"

As a practical matter, yes. The law now is that to be elected Patriarch, one must hold Turkish citizenship, but that's not something that just happens. +Athenagoras was the last non-Turkish born Patriarch. The EP has asked the Turkish government to allow any Orthodox clergyman to be elected and then give him Turkish citizenship as a dual citizen, but Turkey refuses.


24 posted on 09/25/2006 5:51:49 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Coleus; All

Thanks for the ping Coleus.

To all posters:

Just an aside here...

I've noticed in many articles and must comment.

Catholic Church, should be capitalized.

Pope, should be capitalized.

I notice the words Muslim and Islam are always capitalized...I'd like the same respect shown.


25 posted on 09/25/2006 5:53:30 PM PDT by milford421 (U.N. OUT OF U.S.)
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To: Kolokotronis; TaxachusettsMan
The EP has asked the Turkish government to allow any Orthodox clergyman to be elected and then give him Turkish citizenship as a dual citizen, but Turkey refuses

This is the same great friend of ours, Turkey, that does not allow Kurds to name their children with Kurdish names, and does not allow Kurdish language in schools, yet they just can't understand why European Union just doesn't let them in not yet but close)!

BTW, once Turkey is in, tthe Turks can settle anywhere in member countries without a visa or permit, open up business and bring their entire harem with them. Accepting Turkey into the EU will be undoing centuries of Christian work of keeping significant numbers of Mohammedans out of Europe.

Norway brought 500 Pakistani refugees from Bangladesh (when it was East Pakistan) and today they have thousands. Sweden now has Muslim-majority districts. Islam will win Europe without a single bullet (of their own). The Europeans will use their own on themselves.

26 posted on 09/25/2006 6:11:16 PM PDT by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; TaxachusettsMan
To make matters worse, Turkey will not allow the Orthodox to reopen their seminary which the government closed in 1971:
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/20/europe/EU_GEN_Turkey_Orthodox_School.php
There were violent protests two years ago at the headquarters of the Ecumenical Patriarch in Istanbul where the the Patriarch was burned in effigy. It should be pointed out that the seminary would not even be in Istanbul but on an island.
27 posted on 09/25/2006 7:57:36 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

No wonder Benedict XVI used RECIPROCAL once today and RECIPROCITY after that . . .

Europe has bent over backwards (and forwards) to offer Muslims freedom of religion.

And in return . . . . ??????????


28 posted on 09/25/2006 8:49:56 PM PDT by TaxachusettsMan
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To: milford421

I hear ya..it's out of respect.. I think this was the topic of a previous thread. But if you read the Catechism, even the one posted of the Vatican, they seldom capitalize those words, not even his or him when referring to God and Jesus.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2.HTM


29 posted on 09/25/2006 10:16:10 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, geese, algae)
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To: Petrosius; Kolokotronis; TaxachusettsMan
make matters worse, Turkey will not allow the Orthodox to reopen their seminary which the government closed in 1971

The Koran teaches "Do not make friends with Christians and Jews..." How can a devout Muslim ignore this and try to have a "peaceful coexistence" with Christians and Jews? He would also be ignoring the fact that the Koran teaches that those who are not believers must be converted, one way or another.

Muslims are also encouraged and allowed to deceive the infidel. And they do.

The lines will be drawn eventually. The more we procrastinate, the worst it will be.

30 posted on 09/25/2006 10:27:52 PM PDT by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

YES...BUT FOR "THEM" when THEY'LL REALIZE THEY HAVE GONE TOO FAR....TO DEFUSE ALMIGHTY GOD'S WRATH!!


31 posted on 09/25/2006 11:38:25 PM PDT by Traianus (YES I GOT HIM! MUHAMMAD IS 666....)
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To: Petrosius; TaxachusettsMan; kosta50

There's more to it,

http://www.hr-action.org/thr/GRTURK.html#RELIG

Of late, under the Islamist Turkish government it is getting worse.


32 posted on 09/26/2006 4:13:17 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: NYer

Those particular Christians must have missed the scripture "be faithful unto death".


33 posted on 09/26/2006 4:23:53 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: TomasUSMC
I agree.

We are setting up a fundamentalist islamic state where Saddam was. Hate to say it, but at this point our actions in Iraq are looking like a waste.
34 posted on 09/26/2006 5:09:21 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: TaxachusettsMan

The situation in many Latin American countries is that only locally born nationals can be priests or pastors. Long story in that.


35 posted on 09/26/2006 5:11:30 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Coleus

I know you hear me. Thanks.

Wonder what's up with the writers? On purpose or just stupid?


36 posted on 09/26/2006 7:27:23 AM PDT by milford421 (U.N. OUT OF U.S.)
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To: milford421

probably just stupid or just don't care.


37 posted on 09/26/2006 7:53:07 AM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, geese, algae)
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To: Petrosius; kosta50; Kolokotronis; TaxachusettsMan; Carolina
Thank you all for the wealth of information on Turkey. I was not aware of how seriously the situation there had deteriorated. Given all that you have posted, I am going out on a limb here to suggest that perhaps the Pope's Regensburg address was intentional and in support of the Ecumenical Patriarch.

Ratzinger is a clear headed theologian. He accepted the Patriarch's invitation to Turkey last year but was denied entry by the government. Once that had been settled, he continued with his plans to visit Turkey and celebrate the Feast of St. Andrew with the Patriarch, in Istanbul. Despite death threats, those plans have not been canceled and I would suggest that we ALL pray for his safe pilgrimage and journey to this holy land.

My heart goes out to the Patriarch whose hands are tied by the Turkish gov't. Interestingly enough, the Ecumenical Patriarchate is seen as a long-standing supporter of European Union entry for Turkey. "Our country is a bridge between the East and the West," stated the patriarch. "We do not think the European Union should be only a club limited to Christians." Whereas, before becoming pope, Benedict had made known his opposition to Turkey joining the EU.

Your thoughts?

38 posted on 09/26/2006 8:31:59 AM PDT by NYer ("That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah." Hillel)
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To: NYer; Petrosius; kosta50; TaxachusettsMan; Carolina

"Interestingly enough, the Ecumenical Patriarchate is seen as a long-standing supporter of European Union entry for Turkey. "Our country is a bridge between the East and the West," stated the patriarch. "We do not think the European Union should be only a club limited to Christians." Whereas, before becoming pope, Benedict had made known his opposition to Turkey joining the EU."

In many ways, its the EP's only hope for survival in Constantinople, NYer.


39 posted on 09/26/2006 8:44:44 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
In many ways, its the EP's only hope for survival in Constantinople, NYer

I understand. And that is precisely my point! By lending his support to the Patriarch, their voices will resonate more loudly. JPII returned the relics of St. Gregory of Nazianzen, and St. John Chrysostom. What better gift can BXVI bring than his support for the Patriarch, even at the personal risk of his life.

40 posted on 09/26/2006 9:31:40 AM PDT by NYer ("That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah." Hillel)
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To: NYer

I think you are right. +BXVI just flexed his muscles and showed the world how not to be afraid. Now imagine the power of the Pope of Rome coupled with the power of the Moscow Patriarch and the prestige of the EP (not to say the power and money of his flock in America) and the Patriarch of Antioch (together with the Melkite and Maronite Patriarchs). Jerusalem I fear may be a lost cause for now and Alexandria, well, we'll have to see. The new Patriarch there is very, very respected in Africa and may turn out to be a force to be reckoned with there.


41 posted on 09/26/2006 10:00:22 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: flash786
"[the Pope's] policy of child abuse cover ups in the vatican , ant-contraception promotion in africa"

What is "ant-contraception promotion"? Is it fire ant prevention? If, so, I'm all for it.



43 posted on 09/26/2006 10:51:53 AM PDT by bwteim (bwteim = Begin With The End In Mind)
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To: Kolokotronis

Hey, brother. I was thining about you the other day. I was in Tarpon Springs down by the Sponge Docks and I remembered when one of your Prelates was there last Easter and the young men dove into the water trying to be the first to retrieve the Cross he had thrown in there. Very neat town. Me and the Bride are talking about going there for next Easter to witness all this firsthand and also, let's be honest, to have a chance to chow down on some Greek Food and wine :)


44 posted on 09/26/2006 3:04:52 PM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: Kolokotronis; NYer; Petrosius; TaxachusettsMan; Carolina
[re supporting Turkey's entriy into the EU] In many ways, its the EP's only hope for survival in Constantinople

I can see that as a bare necessity IF there was any hope things will change. But, I don't know how to put it to you, Kolo, there is no hope Constantinople will ever be non-Muslim. If anything, things will get worse. Islam is on the offensive, IMO. I believe Turkey's entry into the EU will open the flood gate for Muslim invasion of Europe for the second time.

Sometimes, Dhimifiacation was necessary to survive. In this particular case, it is a lost cause. The sooner this is understood the better. I think Christianity needs to draw a line in the sand, but Christian Europe has forgotten its Christian roots. It seems to me it is desperately trying to be "accepting" and "understanding" and "tolerant" and all-inclusive because that's what Washington has been drumming into their heads since 1945.

Besides, dhimification doesn't win anything; it's a reprieve, a minimum payment to stay alive short of converting to Islam. It was never a bargaining chip. It can keep status quo at best, and that is even doubtful.

I believe that all Muslims in this world will eventually show their true colors. They must, because otherwise they will be counted in the same group as Christians and Jews, trying to co-exist peacefully with them. That's a sin according to Islam. The wages for sin are death.

The only thing Muslims hate more than Christians and Jews are, IMO, Muslims who are not "hot" enough, but "lukewarm," and the apostates among them.

Turkey will install a Turk as the "Ecumenical Patriarch." He must be a citizen and cannot be naturalized. It's time to establish Ecumenical Throne in Moscow, the third Rome, where over 80% of world's Orthodox Christians belong. This is in keeping with the Fourth ecumenical Council's proclamation that honors and privileges are those of churches of imperial and state dignity.

It's time to establish Greek Patriarchy, with an eternal claim to Constantinople (as Serbia is about to enact a Constitution which eternally put claim on Kosovo) and its liberation from Islam.

I think Europe should be reversing the tide, but we have been building "islamiyas" in Bosnia and Kosovo, as we have created Afghanistan Taliban and provided, indirectly, fertile ground for al Qaeda with our myopic and naïve foreign policy of "playing the natives."

I am convincxned that if Christianity does not come together and kick Islam out of Europe, Europeans nations will have their own Bosnias and Kosovos in a relatively short time.

Let's not forget the way Islam treats Christianity (in S. Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran, etc. there are NO churches; pretty soon, the same will be true as other Muslim countries become Islamic).

Islam only pretends to be tolerant, IMO. The Kuran teaches no tolerance with infidels. In places where it doesn't have to be tolerant, it has shown no tolerance at all!

45 posted on 09/26/2006 8:00:39 PM PDT by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Salvation

Good links, thanks.


46 posted on 09/27/2006 1:32:06 AM PDT by TomasUSMC ((FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.))
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To: kosta50

"I can see that as a bare necessity IF there was any hope things will change. But, I don't know how to put it to you, Kolo, there is no hope Constantinople will ever be non-Muslim. If anything, things will get worse. Islam is on the offensive, IMO. I believe Turkey's entry into the EU will open the flood gate for Muslim invasion of Europe for the second time."

I agree with you, kosta. But the EP clings to the hope that the Patriarchate can survive in Constantinople. Personally, I think its over and he should move to Mount Athos or even here to the States.


47 posted on 09/27/2006 3:05:44 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: bwteim
Ant contraception?

Fascinating ... some insecticides actually work that way ... they don't kill the insects, just sterilise them. It allows the insect to carry the poison back to its nest and spread it to the other bugs.

I wasn't aware that the Vatican had a position on the matter ... but OK. Maybe they had a cockroach infestation ...

48 posted on 09/27/2006 5:46:16 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Heheh! Preventing fornication would lessen chances for formication;)


49 posted on 09/27/2006 6:03:55 AM PDT by bwteim (bwteim = Begin With The End In Mind)
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To: bwteim

Je$$e? Dat you?


50 posted on 09/27/2006 6:12:41 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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