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To: annalex; topcat54
When I was researching the Reformed view it wasn't to Calvin that I went; it was to Augustine. To be up front, while I have his commentaries, I have not read that much of Calvin.

Would you agree with Augustine's statement?

If not, why not?
31 posted on 09/29/2006 7:55:12 AM PDT by HarleyD ("Man's steps are ordained by the Lord, How then can man understand his way?" Prov 20:24)
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To: HarleyD; topcat54
"[W]e are not able to will unless we are called; and when, after our calling, we would will, our willing is not sufficient, nor our running, unless God gives strength to us" I find questionable, because the question becomes, "called when?".

God wishes salvation of all men, and He calls all men to sainthood (1 Timothy 2:4, Matthew 5:48). This is the strength given ab initio, from which our will proceeds for the good. I am pretty sure St. Augustine meant just that; it is probably not how you read it. Why do I say so? -- Because if you read St. Augustine talking about "call" you are likely to understand it in terms of a Protestant altar call, -- which is properly not the Divine call itself but a man's response to it. At any rate I find St. Irenaeus dispositive when he says, with great clarity,

God therefore has given that which is good, as the apostle tells us in this Epistle, and they who work it shall receive glory and honour, because they have done that which is good when they had it in their power not to do it; but those who do it not shall receive the just judgment of God, because they did not work good when they had it in their power so to do

[...]

All such passages demonstrate the independent will of man, and at the same time the counsel which God conveys to him, by which He exhorts us to submit ourselves to Him, and seeks to turn us away from [the sin of] unbelief against Him, without, however, in any way coercing us.

[...]

because man is possessed of free will from the beginning, and God is possessed of free will, in whose likeness man was created, advice is always given to him to keep fast the good, which thing is done by means of obedience to God.

5. And not merely in works, but also in faith, has God preserved the will of man free and under his own control, saying, "According to thy faith be it unto thee; " thus showing that there is a faith specially belonging to man, since he has an opinion specially his own


32 posted on 09/29/2006 9:51:17 AM PDT by annalex
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