Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: DouglasKC; Buggman; kerryusama04; topcat54; 1000 silverlings; jude24; Dr. Eckleburg; XeniaSt
That's exactly what I said, but in different words. But bringing ourselves into obedience implies that we know what, or whom, we need to be obedient to.

No, that isn't what I said. We don't bring ourselves into obedience. It is God who brings us into obedience. That is what the Law of the Spirit is about.

167 posted on 10/13/2006 8:23:12 AM PDT by HarleyD ("Man's steps are ordained by the Lord, How then can man understand his way?" Prov 20:24)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 164 | View Replies ]


To: HarleyD; DouglasKC; kerryusama04; topcat54; 1000 silverlings; jude24; Dr. Eckleburg; XeniaSt
There's a bit of both, Harley. The Spirit transforms us from within, giving us a new heart of flesh on which is written God's Torah--but we also have to continually, day-by-day and decision-by-decision yield to the Spirit, and we always have the choice to disobey.

If that were not the case, then Sha'ul, Kefa, Yochanan, and a lot of other apostles and Church fathers wasted a lot of ink extorting us to the obedience of the faith:

Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. (Acts 14:22)

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. (Hebrews 10:25)

Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. (I Thessalonians 4:1)

Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. (I Thessalonians 5:14)

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; (I Timothy 2:1)

These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee. (Titus 2:15)

But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. (Hebrews 3:13)

If having the Torah written on our hearts by the receiving of the Spirit automatically means that we walk in the way God wants us to, without instruction and as it were by instinct, then why did Sha'ul so often have to write to the churches to rebuke them for sin?

Indeed, you cannot separate the Spirit of God from the written Word of God, which is, after all, the Sword of the Spirit (Eph. 6:17, cf. Heb. 4:12). Thus Sha'ul writes, "All scripture (including the Torah!) is given by inspiration of God (lit. "is God-breathed," given by the Breath, or Spirit, of God), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works" (2 Ti. 3:16-17).

When God gives us His Breath and a new heart and writes His Torah on our hearts, He gives us an earnest desire in our new "inward man" to follow Him. This is why Sha'ul could write in Rom. 3:11, "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God," but then turn around and say, "For I delight in the Torah of God after the inward man" (7:22). He could delight in the Torah, instead of being pressed down under its burden, precisely because of the Spirit within him.

But having an earnest desire to follow God in our inward parts does not automatically mean that we know what to do. Some things are obvious and come naturally to the believer (2:14f). Others are obvious, but we come under "the deceitfulness of sin," and require rebuke and exhortation from our fellow believers and the written Word to bring us to repentence.

And other things are not at all obvious. For example, consider the issue of eating meat sacrificed to idols. The first century believers were caught between the command not to participate in idolatry and the fact that any meat sold in the market could well have been sacrificed without their knowledge. Sha'ul gave a very carefully reasoned solution: Since the no-gods of the Gentiles were demons, one must not knowingly eat of meat sacrificed to them as a witness that we follow only one God; but since the demons have no power over we who are in the Messiah, it is not necessary to inquire after every piece of meat in a paranoid fashion. It may seem trite to us, but it was a very important issue back when the Epistles were written and required study and consideration.

I know you love God, Harley, and that you are going about loving Him in the way that you were raised to, and the way that you believe is right and proper from your understanding of Scripture. But this is why simply saying that the Spirit guides us is not an excuse for not studying the Sword of the Spirit and submitting itself to what it--not our own opinions, which are shaped by upbringing, tradition, and temperment as much as by the Spirit--says is the right way to follow God.

God did not give us His Spirit to replace the Scriptures, but to open our eyes and hearts to receiving and obeying the Scriptures--not in the oldness of the letter, but in the newness of the Spirit (Rom. 7:6, 2 Co. 3:6).

170 posted on 10/13/2006 9:22:59 AM PDT by Buggman (http://brit-chadasha.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 167 | View Replies ]

To: HarleyD; Buggman; kerryusama04; topcat54; 1000 silverlings; jude24; Dr. Eckleburg; XeniaSt
No, that isn't what I said. We don't bring ourselves into obedience. It is God who brings us into obedience. That is what the Law of the Spirit is about.

As Buggman pointed out, obedience goes both ways. Scripture is pretty clear that there is an active part of obedience, choice, in what do. And if it were an automatic thing, then there wouldn't be any need for admonishing or overcoming. Scripture would basically be "just wait, and it will be okay.":

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

We "yield ourselves", obey, God's commandments.

181 posted on 10/13/2006 1:27:39 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 167 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson