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Defending the Roman Catholic Faith: Catholic Apologetics (vanity)
Oct. 19 | Global2010

Posted on 10/19/2006 12:19:52 PM PDT by Global2010

Hi Ya'll,

Need some quick to the point answers to what you all as Roman Catholics are asked by non Catholics.

It is my homework assignment and I told my teacher I would post this vanity to help sort out ???? that I will be asked as a Catholic in years to come.

I am not having a problem with ???? about chastity, prudence, temptations, reading the Holy Bible ect...

I know in my head answers to ???? below but having a hard time articulating them.

Questions about our Mother Mary and the Saints, going to Heaven/purgatory takes more then just saving Grace (once saved always saved non Catholic Christians often say).

What ??? are you all often faced to answer? I don't want to go into a deep theological discussion with other non Catholics just a quick to the point answer would suffice.

My idea of just telling them to take an Adult Conservative Catechism Class and they will have all the answers is not really acceptable in defending the faith (lol but it does swiftly end discussion).


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We have to leave for a class but I will check in within the next few days, just so ya don't think I am ignoring ya'll.

I have to think some more too on some exact ???? I have a hard time articulating blunt to the point answers.

Prayers up would be a nice gesture too in that God sees fit to grace me with some wisdom in the area of defending our Catholic faith.

Thanks Ya'll. Global210

1 posted on 10/19/2006 12:19:52 PM PDT by Global2010
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To: Global2010; Salvation

Salvation if you see it worthy of will you ping my vanity to others?

It would be a big help.


2 posted on 10/19/2006 12:21:00 PM PDT by Global2010
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To: Global2010

Do you want any help from non-Catholics in this?


3 posted on 10/19/2006 12:24:00 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rear view mirror.)
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To: Global2010

To me, the practice of canonizing saints keeps us a living church daily witnessing the power of God as compared to some who have their heads totally in the first century, spiritually.


4 posted on 10/19/2006 12:25:45 PM PDT by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: BipolarBob
Oh that would be fantastic BipolarBob!

Please inundate me.
5 posted on 10/19/2006 12:31:35 PM PDT by Global2010
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To: ClaireSolt

Thanks what would the ? be?


6 posted on 10/19/2006 12:33:28 PM PDT by Global2010
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To: Global2010

I would suppose key points for your future defenses against non-Cs would include 1. infallibility of the Pope (and whether Peter was actually mandated as such) 2. The celibacy of priests when the Apostles had families and there is no Biblical command to be such 3. Non-Cs place almost exclusive faith in the Scriptures whereas Cs have traditions and council edicts that they follow as well 4. The authority of the church to change the day of worship from Sabbath to Sunday (you realize it was the churchs authority, don't you?) 5. The veneration of the virgin Mary (of course we all respect the position of trust she was given but non-Cs go little beyond that) I could go on but this is a start.


7 posted on 10/19/2006 12:45:23 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rear view mirror.)
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To: BipolarBob

Thanks please continue.

It would really help in pin pointing my studies.


8 posted on 10/19/2006 12:58:56 PM PDT by Global2010
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To: Global2010

1. The use of statuary, crucifixes and rosary beads. Most non-Cs have no problem with such but I am not a big fan of jewelry- religious or not.2. forbidding contraception methods in over-populated and impoverished places. Of course I am against abortion. I am also against starvation. 3.Seeking forgiveness from priests (confessionals) when non-Cs communicate one-on-one direct (prayer). I'll consider seeing a priest when they heal the lame, restore sight to the blind and sound to the deaf. I wish you luck in your assignment. I hope you take this in the same vein it was given. Some of my best friends are Catholic - we just believe different.


9 posted on 10/19/2006 1:17:50 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rear view mirror.)
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To: Global2010

Catholic.com has resources.


10 posted on 10/19/2006 1:22:02 PM PDT by rbosque
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To: Global2010

Something like why to Catholics revere saints? Isn't that idolotry?


11 posted on 10/19/2006 8:42:21 PM PDT by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: ClaireSolt

No, Catholics do not worship saints. We honor them and venerate them but worship belongs soley to God.


12 posted on 10/19/2006 10:25:11 PM PDT by rbosque
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To: rbosque

Yes u r right.
We were coming from class in Rockfish with the Bends and Migratory Grey Whale mysops as a food and other studies when it hit me...Apollogetic (sic) Greek meaning Defending of ones add Catholic Faith.

Catholic radio has a program airing this next Monday night on just this subject and Q and A's.

Well we support our rural radio station KSHY Catholic radio for sure...as I don't think I could have ever connected all the dots in class without the additional resource.


13 posted on 10/20/2006 12:34:08 AM PDT by Global2010
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To: Global2010; Salvation

Can you give me the correct spelling and definations in short of Apollogetic Catholic teachings?


14 posted on 10/20/2006 12:36:27 AM PDT by Global2010
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To: Global2010

We used to have Catholic radio here in L.A. but it was pulled from this market. You would think the market would be strong here but sadly, no. I need a shortwave radio now to listen. But I do get EWTN on the Dish Network.


15 posted on 10/20/2006 8:14:44 AM PDT by rbosque
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To: ClaireSolt

My small piece here on the saints thing is that, as Catholics, we acknowledge the "community of saints" and that from those saints we ask for intercessory prayer. And that is simply asking them to pray for us in a way that is no different than any other person asking his friends and family to pray for them. That even applies to the Catholic prayer, "Hail Mary", which is also a request for intercessory prayer and NOT a prayer to her.


16 posted on 10/20/2006 8:18:16 AM PDT by Emmett McCarthy
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To: rbosque

Quite a few programs on Catholic radio are download able to your computer and IPOD if you have those avenues.

I love Catholic Answers and just heard last night that Monday evenings a show called Catholic Apollogetics (sic) is airing.

Which is exactly the idea of this vanity to learn more (now that I now the proper terminology) about defending our Catholic Faith.

Funny how it seems every week what I study in class the radio shows seem to coincide perfectly with knowledge that I am trying to gain. Well I guess it is not so much "funny" but working in accordance to God's grace/plan.


17 posted on 10/20/2006 8:38:13 AM PDT by Global2010
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To: Global2010; nickcarraway; sandyeggo; Lady In Blue; NYer; american colleen; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ..
Can any of you help Global2010 out here?

Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Catholic Discussion Ping List.

18 posted on 10/20/2006 8:47:45 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Emmett McCarthy

I would like to add that the Saints serve as our role models for out faith and daily living too.

Or as a non Catholic christian would use the term "Bible Hero"


19 posted on 10/20/2006 8:51:22 AM PDT by Global2010
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To: Global2010

Can you get KBVM out of Portland down where you live? (Catholic Radio Station 83.3 I think.??) Maybe it's 88.3??


20 posted on 10/20/2006 8:52:29 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Global2010

Catholic Answers is also on the net. A lot of apologetics there.


21 posted on 10/20/2006 8:53:26 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Global2010

Scroll down and check out some of these resources. Who can state it better than John Henry Newman?

http://landru.i-link-2.net/shnyves/index_of_all_pages.html


22 posted on 10/20/2006 8:55:28 AM PDT by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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To: Global2010

http://www.catholicapologetics.org/
http://www.cwo.com/~pentrack/catholic/apolo.html
http://www.catholicapologetics.com/
http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ24.HTM


23 posted on 10/20/2006 8:56:24 AM PDT by D-fendr
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To: Global2010

Some wonderful scriptural sources straight from Scripture -- which non-Catholic like to cite.

When these are brought up they usually have nothing to say, because it is from the Bible.!!!!!!......

The Catholic apologist’s scriptural cheat sheet





CONTENTS

Sola scriptura
Sola fide Salvation (once and for all?)
Deuterocanonicals
Purgatory
Eucharist
Baptism
Forgiveness of sins
Papacy/infallibility
“Brothers” of Jesus
Mary
Saints
Statues, images and relics
Church and authority
Priesthood
Worship
Justification
Morality
SOLA SCRIPTURA

Jn 21:25 ... not everything is in the Bible.
2 Thess 2:15; 2 Tim 2:2; 1 Cor 11:2; 1 Thess 2:13 ... Paul speaks of oral tradition. Acts 2:42 ... early Christians followed apostolic tradition.
2 Pet 3:16 ... Bible hard to understand, get distorted.
2 Jn 1:12; 3 Jn 1:13-14 ... more oral tradition.
2 Pet 1:20-21 ... against personal interpretation.
Acts 8:30-31 ... guidance needed to interpret scriptures.
Heb 5:12 ... need to be taught.
SOLA FIDE

Jas 2:14-26 ... what good is faith w/o works?
Heb 10:26-27, Rom 8:12-13 ... must avoid sin.
Jas 5:20 ... “earning” forgiveness.
Lk 6:46-49; Mt 7:21; Mt 19:16-21; Jn 5:28-29 ... must do will of God.
1 Cor 9:27 ... “buffet my body ...”
Phil 2:12; 2 Cor 5:10; Rom 2:6-13; Mt 25:32-46; Gal 6:6-10; Rev 20:12 ... works have merit.
1 Jn 2:3-6; 1 Jn 3:24; 1 Jn 5:3 ... keep commandments.
SALVATION (ONCE AND FOR ALL?)

1 Cor 9:27 ... after preaching ... I myself disqualified.
1 Cor 10:12 ... thinks that he stands ... lest he fall.
Phil 2:12 ... work out salvation with fear and trembling.
Heb 4:1 ... fear of failing to reach salvation.
1 Jn 5:16-17 ... some sins are mortal, some not.
Rom 11:21-22 ... spare branches, continue or be cut off.
Heb 6:4-8 ... believers can apostasize, be damned.
Heb 10:26-29 ... those sanctified who sin can still be damned.
2 Pet 2:20-21 ... righteous can fall.
DEUTEROCANONICALS

Deuterocanonicals were used in NT: 2 Mach 6:18-7:42 ... Heb 11:35; Wisdom 3:5-6 ... 1 Pet 1:6-7; Wisdom 13:1-9 ... Rom 1:18-32
Septuagint (Gk, w/ Deuterocanonicals) version of OT quoted in NT, noticably different from Hebrew version: Is 7:14 ... Mt 1:23; Is 40:3 ... Mt 3:3; Joel 2:30-31 ... Acts 2:19-20; Ps 95:7-9 ... Heb 3:7-9 etc.
PURGATORY

Lk 12:58-59; 1 Cor 3:15; Mt 5:25-26 ... temporary agony.
Heb 12:6-11 ... God’s painful discipline.
Mt 12:32 ... no forgiveness ... nor in the age to come.
1 Pet 3:18-20 ... might be purgatory (limbo?).
1 Pet 4:6 ... preached to the dead.
Rev 21:27 ... nothing unclean shall enter heaven.
Heb 12:23 ... souls in heaven are perfect.
Col 1:24; 2 Sam 12:13-14 ... “extra” suffering.
2 Mac 12:43-46 ... sacrifice for the dead.
2 Tim 1:15-18 ... prayer for Onesiphorus for “that Day.”
1 Jn 5:14-17 ... mortal/venial sins
EUCHARIST

Mt 26:26-27; Mk 14:22,24; Lk 22:19-20; 1 Cor 11:24-25 ... this is my body ... this is my blood.
1 Cor 11:26-30 ... sinning against the body and blood.
Jn 6:32-58 ... long discourse on Eucharist.
Gen 14:18; Ps 110:4; Heb 7:1-17 ... Melchizedek.
Acts 2:42 ... breaking of bread.
Ps 14:4; Ps 53:4; Is 9:18-20; Is 49:26; Micah 3:2-3; Rev 17:6,16 ... symbolic interpretation of Jn 6 inappropriate.
Ex 12:8,46 ... paschal lamb has to be eaten.
Jn 1:29; 1 Cor 5:7 ... Jesus is lamb of God, paschal lamb.
Jn 4:31-34; Mt 16:5-12 ... Jesus speaks symbolically of food.
BAPTISM

Acts 2:38-39; Acts 16:15, 16:33, 18:8; 1 Cor 1:16 ... suggests baptism of all, incl. children.
Jn 3:5; Rom 6:4; Mk 16:16 ... necessity of baptism.
Col 2:11-12 ... circumcision (normally performed on infants c.f. Lk 2:21; Gen 17:12) replaced by baptism.
Acts 22:16 ... baptism removes sin.
1 Pet 3:21 ... baptism saves by water.
FORGIVENESS OF SINS

Jn 20:22-23 ... “if you forgive ... they are forgiven.”
Mt 18:18 ... binding on earth and heaven.
2 Cor 5:18 ... ministry of reconciliation.
Jas 5:14-16 ... forgiveness of sins, anointing of the sick, confession.
PAPACY/INFALLIBILITY

Mt 16:18-19 ... Jesus gives Peter primacy: rock, keys, binding and loosing.
Is 22:22; Rev 1:18 ... keys as symbol of authority.
Jn 21:17 ... “feed my sheep”
Mt 10:1-4; Mk 3:16-19; Lk 6:14-16; Acts 1:13; Lk 9:32 ... Peter always mentioned first, as foremost apostle.
Mt 18:21; Mk 8:29; Lk 12:41; Jn 6:68-69 ... Peter speaks for the apostles.
Acts 2:14-40 ... Pentecost: Peter who first preached.
Acts 3:6-7 ... Peter worked first healing.
Acts 10:46-48 ... Gentiles to be baptized revealed to Peter.
Jn 1:42 ... Simon is Cephas (Aramaic: Kepha for rock).
Lk 22:31-32 ... “Simon ... strengthen your brethren”.
Lk 10:1-2, 16; Jn 13:20; 2 Cor 5:20; Gal 4:14; Acts 5:1-5 ... “vicars” (substitutes) of Christ.
Mk 6:20; Lk 1:70,2:23; Rom 12:1; Act 3:21, 1 Cor 7:14; Eph 3:5; Col 1:22 ... humans can be holy (“call no one holy”).
“BROTHERS” OF JESUS

Mary wife of Cleophas and “sister” of the Virgin Mary (Jn 19:25) is the mother of James and Joset (Mk 15:47; Mt 27:56) who are called the “brothers of Jesus” (Mk 6:3).
Acts 1:12-15 ... apostles, Mary, “some women” and Jesus’ “brothers” number about 120. That is a lot of “brothers.”
Gen 14:12-14 ... Lot, Abraham’s nephew (Gen 11:26-28), described as Abraham’s brother (KJV).
Gen 29:15 ... Laban, Jacob’s uncle, calls Jacob his “brother” (KJV).
John 19:26-27 ... Jesus gives care of Mary to John, not one of his “brothers.”
2 Sam 6:23, Gen 8:7, Dt 34:6(KJV) ... “until.”
Jn 20:17-18 ... “go to my brethren/brothers”: Mary goes to disciples.
MARY

Gen 5:24; Heb 11:5; 2 Kings 2:1-13 ... Enoch and Elijah taken to heaven.
Lk 1:28 ... annunciation.
Lk 1:42-48 ... blessed among women. All generations shall call her blessed.
2 Tim 4:8, Jas 1:12, 1 Pet 5:4, Rev 2:10 ... coronation awaits saints.
Jn 2:1-5 ... Mary’s intercession.
SAINTS

Mk 12:26-27 ... “not God of the dead, but of the living.”
Jn 15:1-8 ... vine and its branches.
1 Cor 12:25-27; Rom 12:4-5 ... body of Christ.
Eph 6:18; Rom 15:30; Col 4:3; 2 Thess 1:11 ... intercessory prayer.
Jos 5:13-14; Dan 8:15-17; Tobit 12:15-16 ... veneration of angels united with God (Mt 18:10).
1 Cor 13:12; 1 John 3:2 ... saints also united with God.
Lk 20:34-38 ... those who died are like angels.
2 Mac 15:11-16 ... deceased Onias and Jeremiah interceded for Jews.
Rev 8:3-4; Jer 15:1 ... saints’ intercession.
Is 14:9-10, 1 Sam 28:8-19, 1 Pet 3:19, Lk 16:19-31, Mt 17:3, Rev 5:8, Rev 7:9-10, Rev 6:9-10 ... those who have died are not in a coma.
STATUES, IMAGES AND RELICS

Ex 25:18-22, 26:1,31; Num 21:8-9 ... God commands images made.
1 Kings 6:23-29, 35, 7:29 ... Solomon’s temple: statues and images.
Acts 19:11,12 ... Paul’s handkerchiefs and aprons.
2 Kg 13:20-21 ... Elisha’s bones.
Acts 5:15-16 ... Peter’s shadow.
Mt 9:20-22 ... Jesus’ garment cures woman.
CHURCH AND AUTHORITY

Acts 2:42 ... doctrine, community, sacred rite (bread).
Eph 5:25-26 ... Christ loved the Church.
1 Tim 3:15 ... church is pillar/foundation of truth.
Mt 16:18 ... Christ protects Church.
Heb 13:17 ... obey.
Mt 18:17-18 ... church as final authority.
Mt 23:2-3 ... Pharisees succeeded Moses (seat of Moses).
1 Cor 5:5; 1 Tim 1:20 ... excommunication.
Jn 17:21 ... that they may be one.
Jn 10:16 ... one flock, one shepherd.
PRIESTHOOD

Acts 1:15-26; 2 Tim 2:2; Tit 1:5 ...unbroken succession.
Acts 15:6,23; Acts 14:23; 1 Tim 4:14, 5:22; 1 Tim 5:17; Jas 5:13-15 ... presbyters/elders (priests) were ordained, preached and taught the flock, administered sacraments.
Jn 8:56; Lk 16:24; Rom 4:1,16-18; 1 Cor 4:14-15; Acts 7:2; 1 Thess 2:11; 1 Jn 2:13-14 ... “call no one father”?
1 Cor 7:7-9 ... Paul unmarried.
Mt 19:12; 1 Cor 7:32-33, 1 Tim 4:11-12 ... celibacy.
Gen 14:18; Ps 110:4; Heb 7:1-17 ... Melchizedek.
1 Cor 12 ... different roles of members of body.
WORSHIP

1 Kg 8:54; 2 Chr 6:13; Ezra 9:5; Mt 17:14; Lk 5:8 ... kneeling.
Rev 8:3-4 ... incense.
Col 2:16 ... don’t condemn concerning sabbath.
Acts 20:7; 1 Cor 16:2 ... Eucharist, collections on Sundays.
Rev 4:8, Mt 26:44 ... “vain repetition”?
JUSTIFICATION

1 Jn 1:7, 2 Pet 1:9 ... purified from sins.
Jn 1:29, Heb 9:26-28 ... takes away sin.
Acts 3:19; Ps 51:1-2, Ps 103:12, Is 43:25 ... blot out, clear away sin.
Tit 3:5-7 ... regeneration, renewal part of justification.
Rom 2:13, Rom 3:20 ... future justification.
Heb 11:8...Gen 12:1-4; Rom 4:2-3...Gen 15:6; Jas 2:21-23...Gen 22:1-18 ... justifications of Abraham.
2 Pet 1:4 ... become partakers of the divine nature.
MORALITY

Gen 38:9-10 ... Onanism.
Mal 2:14-16 ... God hates divorce.
1 Cor 7:10-11 ... don’t divorce.
Mt 5:32-33; Mt 19:4-6,9; Mk 10:11-12; Lk 16:18 ... Jesus prohibits divorce.
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

The Catholic apologist's scriptural cheat sheet is made available with permission of the author Christopher Wong.

THE AUTHOR

Last revised December 20, 1999 by Christopher Wong (cwong@world.std.com)


24 posted on 10/20/2006 8:57:21 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: D-fendr; Jaded

You guys Rock!

Thank You so much!

Bookmarked.


25 posted on 10/20/2006 8:59:45 AM PDT by Global2010
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To: Salvation

We have a wonderful man from our Church who started a Catholic radio station right here on the rural Coast KSHY.

How cool is that!

I am an avid listener and supporter for sure as it has been the best tool for learning/coinciding with my Confirmation class.

I can't thank him enough for working so hard to getting KSHY up and running in our lil part of the world.

What an amazing gift.


26 posted on 10/20/2006 9:04:23 AM PDT by Global2010
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To: Salvation

That is my favorite show!


27 posted on 10/20/2006 9:05:26 AM PDT by Global2010
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To: Global2010

A question that I have encountered from non-Catholics is about our praying to saints, including Mary. Many are really put off by that.

I try to explain that our prayers to saints are vastly different. We pray to God as a form of worship, for expiation of sins, and for supplication. Praying to a saint, however, is a request for that saint to pray for us. It is no different than asking another living person to pray to God for you, except that we presume that someone already sanctified in heaven has a little more power in his prayers, I suppose. We do not worship the Virgin Mary, but some non-Catholics see our reverence and respect of her as such. We believe that Mary has a special place in the heart of Our Lord and, as such, is the ideal supplicant on our behalf.

And, of course, we do not worship any of the saints. For example, one of my personal favorites among the saints is St. Anthony of Padua. I do not worship him; I ask him to help me when I have lost something, and I thank him when I have found the object. By the same token, I ask other people to pray for me, and I thank them for doing so.


28 posted on 10/20/2006 9:09:12 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Never trust Democrats with national security.)
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To: Global2010
Read the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" and Watch "Catechism of the Catholic Church" by Father John Corapi. You will learn the faith and be strong in your convictions and faith.
29 posted on 10/20/2006 9:12:27 AM PDT by frogjerk (REUTERS: We give smoke and mirrors a bad name)
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To: Salvation

Oh that is wonderful!

Thank You, thank you, thank you.

(gosh I am getting all jazzed up this early and didn't even have to drink my diet Rock Star energy booster, lol)


30 posted on 10/20/2006 9:13:26 AM PDT by Global2010
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To: frogjerk

My wife and I discovered Fr. Corapi a couple of months ago on EWTN TV. He is an inspiring speaker, he makes you want to learn more. They also replay his Catechism talks on EWTN radio which can also be heard online.


31 posted on 10/20/2006 9:17:09 AM PDT by ladtx ("It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it." -- -- General Douglas MacArthur)
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To: Global2010

You mean "apologetics". This term is from the Greek "apologia", meaning something like "answer." Apologetics encompasses arguments in reference to any belief system. There were Christian apologists in the early years of the Church, and I think that even non-Catholics use the term today to refer to arguments in defense of the faith.


32 posted on 10/20/2006 9:19:47 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Never trust Democrats with national security.)
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To: ladtx
My wife and I discovered Fr. Corapi a couple of months ago on EWTN TV. He is an inspiring speaker, he makes you want to learn more. They also replay his Catechism talks on EWTN radio which can also be heard online.

He is incredible and his firm belief is infectious.

His own story of conversion is incredible in itself.

33 posted on 10/20/2006 9:21:01 AM PDT by frogjerk (REUTERS: We give smoke and mirrors a bad name)
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To: Global2010

Boy you are going to love me after today, go here for ALOT of info including an apologetics course!!!

http://home.inreach.com/bstanley/

God bless you!


34 posted on 10/20/2006 10:13:04 AM PDT by rbosque
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To: rbosque

Thank You!


35 posted on 10/20/2006 10:41:58 AM PDT by Global2010
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To: Global2010

Thanks for fixing the title admin. mods. : )


36 posted on 10/20/2006 10:43:44 AM PDT by Global2010
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To: Bigg Red

Yes exactly.


37 posted on 10/20/2006 10:46:35 AM PDT by Global2010
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To: Global2010

http://www.catholic.com/
http://www.catholicexchange.com/
http://www.ewtn.com/
http://www.newadvent.org/


38 posted on 10/20/2006 2:00:14 PM PDT by defconw (Gearing up for W2 in 08!)
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To: Global2010

I would divide questiona I am asked in two groups:

1. Questions Protestants SHOULD ask, but all to often they don't;

2. Questions they actually ask;

The Orthodox, by the way, tend to know the Catholic answer and most times the Orthodox answer is the same answer. So, I narrow your question to Protestantism as the source of the question.

In the first category are the fundamental questions of faith:

A. Relationship between the Catholic clergy, the Holy Tradition and the Holy Scripture.

B. Relationship between faith, works of love, and liturgical works.

C. Meaning of the Sacraments of the Church.

D. What is Communion of Saints?

E. What are particular and universal judgement?


Anyone who would satisfy himself with the answers to the above would not need to ask questions that he indeed asks. They are:

Instead of the fundamental question

A. Relationship between the Catholic clergy, the Holy Tradition and the Holy Scripture.

we get asked:

- where in the Bible is ...

The answer, invariably, is that the Bible is a part of the deposit of faith given us by Christ. Our practices and beleifs are not necessarily inventoried in the Bible. However, they do not contradict the Bible.

- Why do I need to go to a priest to confess a sin or take communion?

The answer is that Christ sent the bishops and priests like Himself ("like my Father sent me so I send you"; "feed my sheep"; "whose sins you forgive they are forgiven them"). He did not send the laity like Himself.

- Why don't you have woman priests or married priests in the Latin Rite?

The answer is that priests imitate Christ Who is male and married to His Church.

- Why don't you read the Bible?

The answer is, we do and we should do so more, but we do not interpret the Bible ourselves as we read it. We study how the Church interpreted the Bible historically through the ages.

- Why do you pray to icons and statues?

The answer is that we pray to God with the help of the saint who is depicted in the holy image. The Church taught us the proper meaning of such prayer, as well as taught us not to fall in idolatry.

Instead of the fundamental topic

B. Relationship between faith, works of love, and liturgical works.

we are asked

- why do you think one can earn his way to heaven? Doesn't it makes Christ's work incomplete?

The answer is that Christ alone makes our works of love and liturgical works possible, and He asked us many times int he scripture to do these works in order to increase our faith. We are saved by grace with faith working through love, just like the Scripture teaches.

- why are you so hung up on the ritualistic; didn't Christ condemn rituals?

The answer is, Christ condemned empty rituals and we condemn them too. The sacraments of Baptism and the Eucharist are explained and mandated in the Scripture in great detail; all other sacraments are at least implied. The Church develops the proper reverent form for these on authority of Christ our King.


Instead of the fundamental topic

C. Meaning of the Sacraments of the Church.

we are asked why we bow here, kneel there, cross ourselves, baptize children, don't allow remarriage after divorce, do five Hail Marys for penance, insist on fermented wine and wheat bread for communion, etc. All this interest in form and detail is the result of a lack of understanding of the meaning of each respective sacrament, and the proper role of the hierarchy of the Church in defining the form.

Instead of asking

D. What is Communion of Saints?

we are asked

- why do we pray to Mary and saints and dead souls?

If the person understood the communion of saints as souls living the everlasting life with Christ in Heaven, as was promised them and us, we would not be surprised that we consider ourselves constantly in their company and that they pray to Christ, our sole mediator before God the Father, for us.

- why do we have monks and nuns?

Because we consider prayer the most important part of our
lives, but we in the world do not always have the time.

E. What are particular and universal judgement?

If one understood that one's soul is judged immediately upon his death, but the world as we know it comes to an end with the second coming of Christ for us all, one would not wonder why

- we believe in Purgatory?
- pray for the dead?
- think that suffering and virtuous acts in this life helps our own soul and souls of others?

Indeed, the concept that the soul that is saved by the mercy of Christ upon death often needs purification before it can join Him in Heaven follows logically from the fact that we die with impurities but only pure souls can be with Christ till the end of the world and beyond. Once this framework is in place, the scriptural references to purification after justification such as in 1 Cor 3 begin to make sense.


39 posted on 10/20/2006 2:49:55 PM PDT by annalex
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To: Global2010

No sweat.


40 posted on 10/20/2006 3:44:08 PM PDT by rbosque
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To: BipolarBob
2. forbidding contraception methods in over-populated and impoverished places. Of course I am against abortion. I am also against starvation.

I should like to point out that right up until the 1930's Every Christian denomination was against contraception. Chastity was considered a major virtue. Now most "Christians" no longer distinguish themselves from the secular world regarding contraception, abortion, premarital sex and homosexuality.

41 posted on 10/20/2006 7:47:08 PM PDT by TradicalRC ("...this present Constitution, which will be valid henceforth, now, and forever..."-Pope St. Pius V)
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To: TradicalRC

Good point. Unfortunately with the rapes and prostitution going on in impoverished countries some sort of means to prevent unwanted pregnacies may be warranted. These poor women (girls?) have no where to turn for assistance in guidance on what to do with their lives. They have no jobs or husbands to support them. Yes in an ideal world chastity is great. But some people don't live in an ideal world but a desparate one. And to bring a child into some of those environments would be reckless.


42 posted on 10/20/2006 8:52:53 PM PDT by BipolarBob
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To: BipolarBob
Yes in an ideal world chastity is great. But some people don't live in an ideal world but a desparate one. And to bring a child into some of those environments would be reckless.

Christ did not talk as though chastity were an ideal. God knows that the world is not His ideal, but it was good enough to die for. He has made no demands beyond our capacity. You cannot fight evil with another evil.

43 posted on 10/21/2006 6:27:23 AM PDT by TradicalRC ("...this present Constitution, which will be valid henceforth, now, and forever..."-Pope St. Pius V)
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To: TradicalRC
You cannot fight evil with another evil.

Some would think imposing your morality upon on another is evil in the sense of them thinking ahead of what dangers to a child in certain enviroments would bring and you not. Not everyone thinks contraception is evil. Not like abortion - where a life is already in existence. We have already went out and propagated and replenished the earth. Now we need to make it a better place to live. Not mindlessly reproducing with no thought of the consequences. I know you do not agree. So there we are. Have a good day. Cheers.

44 posted on 10/21/2006 6:41:52 AM PDT by BipolarBob
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To: Global2010

I didn't realize there was a radio station like KBVM over there.


45 posted on 10/21/2006 6:54:34 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Bigg Red
Praying to a saint, however, is a request for that saint to pray for us. It is no different than asking another living person to pray to God for you

*************

Exactly. Visit any of the "prayer request" threads and you will find plenty of Protestants participating. It's a wonderful thing.

46 posted on 10/21/2006 6:54:52 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: annalex

Great summary!


47 posted on 10/21/2006 6:56:31 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: BipolarBob

**Some would think imposing your morality upon on another is evil.....**

The TRUTH is never evil!

Think about it.

The Bible tells us in Ephesians and the Gospel of Mark (among other souces) that man was made for woman and that their union would be holy in the sight of God.

This is not evil. Unfortunately, the modern world would have us believe otherwise. Have you fallen into the judgments of the modernists/secularlist?


48 posted on 10/21/2006 7:00:10 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
Have you fallen into the judgments of the modernists/secularlist?

Well, I hope not! There is nothing holy about prostitution or rape. That is unholy and to prevent a product of that un-holiness is very much up to the person(s) going to suffer from that. If a woman is in an unsafe enviroment and makes a choice to not bring a child into the world through contraceptive means, that is HER choice and it may be a humane one.

49 posted on 10/21/2006 7:17:28 AM PDT by BipolarBob
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To: BipolarBob

I believe it is up to God, and not up to the people. Those babies could always be offered for adoption.


50 posted on 10/21/2006 7:19:50 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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