Posted on 10/19/2006 5:44:54 PM PDT by split
FORT WORTH, Texas - After a Baptist pastor said in a chapel service at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary that he sometimes speaks in tongues when he prays, seminary trustees adopted a resolution Tuesday that states the institution will not tolerate the promotion of the practice of speaking in tongues.
The resolution: "Southwestern will not knowingly endorse in any way, advertise, or commend the conclusions of the contemporary charismatic movement including private prayer language. Neither will Southwestern knowingly employ professors or administrators who promote such practices."
Speaking in tongues is described in the Bible as a spiritual gift from God that empowers humans to speak in other languages. But many contemporary theologians teach that the practice was distinctly for first-century Christians. However, in the past century, Pentecostal and charismatic Christians have contended that speaking in tongues should be practiced in today's churches.
Patterson said he has consistently maintained a different view.
"I have opposed (speaking in tongues) for all of these years because I think it's an erroneous interpretation of the Bible," he said. "Southern Baptists traditionally have stood against what we feel like are the excesses of the charismatic movement. All we're doing is restating where we've always been."
Baptists are "the most intense advocates of religious liberty," Patterson said, defending the right of other Christians to believe in speaking in tongues. "But don't wear a Yankee uniform when you play for the Mets."
"We interpret the Scriptures in such a way that we do not see room for a private prayer language and we're saying we will not waver on that," Redmond said.
(Excerpt) Read more at kansascity.com ...
There's certainly enough evidence that this whole issue has been taken to extremes that are not from God.
As one of my pastor's likes to say. "We're Pentecostals. Just not the scary, crazy kind."
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Agreed.
But lots of congregations of every stripe do very crazy things--FROM GOD'S PERSPECTIVE. Witness the church splits over the color of the center asile carpeting.
it's just that due to the dramatic, unusual nature of the charismatic gifts and emotions attached, it's easier and more popular to make noise about THOSE problems.
I've persistently observed that
SELF-AGGRANDIZEMENT
is a plague on all denominatons, and sometimes seemingly all congregations
of every stripe.
"PLEASE--Show me the research that proves
MOST OF
US."
"Some call it tongues for lack of a better word" You seem much more passionate about this issue than me. I'm not a researcher, I'm a Baptist. In my experience "many" (better?) Baptists don't believe there might be a difference between private prayer language and publicy speaking in tounges and so they are prone to lump the two together. Ask the "average' congregational Baptist about private prayer language and they will probably not know what your talking about.
Your mileage may vary.
I strongly suspect . . .
that if you asked of The Lord . . .
and in some crisis or great need . . . prayed in a sequence of sounds unassociated with any known language to you, that Holy Spirit would be pleased to convey to The Lord whatever anguish, delight, need of your deep inner spirit that had found no or scant expression in English.
Faith and trust in Holy Spirit's readiness and eagerness to convey meaning to whatever sounds made would likely be an important key.
Some folks experience a sort of supernatural confirmation such beginning moments. Others don't until maybe months or years later.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
Praying in a sequence of sounds not normally part of and not as part of a language you know.
AND TRUSTING HOLY SPIRIT IS CONVEYING THE MEANING TO THE FATHER, TO OUR LORD.
Romans 8:26 (The Message)
The Message (MSG)
Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson
26-28Meanwhile, the moment we get tired in the waiting, God's Spirit is right alongside helping us along. If we don't know how or what to pray, it doesn't matter. He does our praying in and for us, making prayer out of our wordless sighs, our aching groans. He knows us far better than we know ourselves, knows our pregnant condition, and keeps us present before God. That's why we can be so sure that every detail in our lives of love for God is worked into something good.
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KJV: groanings which cannot be uttered.
perhaps . . . which cannot be put into words, normally.
What I do not understand is one Christian saying of another that he or she is wrong and not a "true" Christian, based on these differences.
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Agreed!
In a word . . . PRIDE.
And, insecurities . . . turf issues . . . CONTROL FREAK issues . . . political games.
All which must be sickening to our Lord.
PRAISE GOD! I love it when He does things like that.
But He's certainly no vending machine as some demand and expect. Then they like to throw the baby out with the bath.
PRAISE GOD!
A friend of mine standing next to me in the sound booth . . . when the visiting evangelist (known for God using him in such ways mentioned) suggested that those who felt a warm tingling sensation in their mouths to go and check in the restroom and see if they had a new filling etc. He did and he did have a bright new filling. Hadn't known he needed a filling.
There I stood with a mess of a mouth and not one filling I was most troubled.
Some folks that evening got gold fillings, others silver and others evidently white porcelain. The evangelist did not know why God chose to do things that way instead of just give people new teeth.
The prayer language you are referring to can not be written down or conveyed in any way to anyone else. It is strictly a meditative state that you believe helps you in communicating with GOD the FATHER. Is this what it is?
If so, I understand the Baptist distrust of it. It sounds very similar to what Buddhist's do when doing yoga.
God does as he pleases and most miracles occur often when we aren't asking.
I'm not in to "tongues".
English suits me fine when communicating.
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Lots of people aren't into lots of things
THAT GOD IS DOING in these end times.
Doesn't slow God down much in terms of the world at large. May slow Him down in individual lives, congregations or geographic areas. God seems to infrequently force Himself on any group or area.
I think that will change somewhat in coming months and years. God will be displaying His majesty and power far and wide. Though I still think in most cases, it will be because of praying believers in that area.
Seriously, nmh, there is much in the Bible you are not addressing. Glossolalia (speaking in tongues) is distinctly in the Bible.
So are the verses you quoted, of course. But other Christians find purpose in other portions of the Bible. You say that you don't think I'm learned enough to talk about this. You're incorrect.
Some might say I don't properly "discern" the meaning of Biblical passages. That's fine, but I do know them, and know them very well.
At one time, in my youth, I found it interesting and useful to memorize entire books of the Bible. I got a free two-week stay at a church camp one Summer for memorizing the entire book of I Corinthians. I also memorized all four of the Gospels, just because I was challenged to do so.
No, I know the Bible very well. I was once a very devoted Christian. I came to my atheism in my 20s. Before that, I was on the verge of attending seminary and joining the ministry.
You know some Bible verses, but are, apparently, ignorant of many others. Many might be worth your learning.
Paul wrote instructions
TO
BELIEVERS
IN NEW TESTAMENT ERA CHURCHES. LAST I CHECKED, WE ARE STILL IN THE CHURCH AGE.
Declarations artificially insisting on a cessation of such are human contrived and not remotely Biblically instructed. They are extrapolated inferances.
What an achievement of the enemy to snooker folks so.
He knows that there are many groups following his deception to result in what this verse talks about:
2 Timothy 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Besides, there's plenty of people will keep you posted on strange happenings in any organization whatsoever. You post what you think it strange; I'll do the same. :)
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I'd rather post what God is doing instead of what God is not doing.
What about the private prayer language, you and others have referred to, is it a language someone would recognize if it were written down?
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Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
I try and avoid telling Holy Spirit HOW to do HIS WORK.
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