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Memo from Los Angeles Archdiocese re: Communion/purification (Mahony Alert!)
Closed Cafeteria ^ | October 27, 2006 | Gerald Augustinus

Posted on 10/29/2006 3:04:31 PM PST by NYer

I received the following memo via email. The person doesn't have an access to a scanner until Monday, so here is the text in regular form as the person copied it. I cannot vouch for the authenticity but have no reason to believe that it is fabricated. Certainly, one can interpret it favorably ... a big archdiocese needs time, they don't want to rush things and so forth. But. This is Cardinal Kool Aide/Wicker Basket.

Update: according to a reader "No one has mentioned that the indult had expired in March of 2005. The memo seems misleading to suggest the 2002 indult has been in effect after March of 2005."

Update 2: I have a copy of the actual Diocese of Orange memo on this subject, stating the same. See below or follow the link

Curt Jester argues that the indult was only sought because American dioceses "overdid" the EMHC situation in the first place.

To: Pastors, Administrators, Deacons, Parish Staffs, and Principals
From: Msgr. Royal M. Vadakin, Moderator of the Curia/Vicar General
Date: October 27, 2006
Subject: Holy Communion: An Update

Cardinal Roger Mahony and the Auxiliary Bishops of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles would like all in the Archdiocese to be made aware of what follows in this update.

You may wish to share this with your parishioners and those who find this policy update clarifying and of assistance in the celebration of the Eucharist.
Cardinal Mahony and the Auxiliary Bishops of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles have received a letter written on Oct. 23 by Bishop William S. Skylstad, President of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, notifying bishops of a change in the indult -- or church permission -- in effect since 2002 which allows extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion to help cleanse cups and plates when there are not enough priests or deacons to do so.

According to his letter, Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the Vatican Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, asked Pope Benedict XVI about the matter during a June 9 audience, “and received a response in the negative.”

Receiving Holy Communion under both kinds remains a “more complete” sign of the sacrament’s meaning and continues to be the norm in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. Until Cardinal Mahony and the auxiliary bishops have the opportunity to discuss the new recommendations, both locally and at the general meeting of the USCCB in November, no changes will be made regarding the present policy for the distribution of Holy Communion and/or the purification of the sacred vessels.



TOPICS: Activism; Catholic; Religion & Culture; Worship
KEYWORDS: benedictxvi; cardinal; mahony; vatican
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 10/29/2006 3:04:32 PM PST by NYer
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To: Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
And here is the 'directive' from the Vatican.


Catholic World News : Limit role of extraordinary ministers, Vatican tells US

The Vatican has instructed the Catholic bishops of the US to discontinue the practice of allowing extraordinary Eucharistic ministers to assist with the purification of chalices after Communion.

In an October 12 letter to Bishop William Skylstad, the president of the US bishops' conference, the prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship reported that Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) ordered an end to the American practice. Cardinal Francis Arinze (bio - news) was responding to a request from the US bishops' conference, asking for approval to continue the policy.

Bishop Skylstad, in turn, wrote to all American bishops on October 23, informing them that "it will be necessary to inform all pastors that extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion may no longer assist with the purification of sacred vessels at Mass."

Although the General Instruction of the Roman Missal specifies that sacred vessels may be purified only by a priest or deacon, the American bishops had obtained an indult, or permission, to allow extraordinary ministers to assist in that role. This indult was intended to encourage more people to receive Communion under both kinds.

In his letter to Bishop Skylstad, Cardinal Arinze noted, "Sometimes, however, the high number of communicants may render it inadvisable for everyone to drink from the chalice." He recommended that the American bishops remind their people of the teaching from the Council of Trent, "that Christ is fully present under each of the species. Communion under the species of bread alone, as a consequence, makes it possible to receive all the fruit of Eucharistic grace."

Bishop Skylstad, in conveying news of the Vatican decision to the American hierarchy, attached a list of questions and answers about the distribution of Communion, prepared by Bishop Donald Trautman, the chairman of the US bishops' liturgy committee. Bishop Trautman reminded his fellow bishops that the use of extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist is intended "exclusively for those instances where there are not enough ordinary ministers to distribute Holy Communion."

2 posted on 10/29/2006 3:10:55 PM PST by NYer (Apart from the cross, there is no other ladder by which we may get to Heaven. St. Rose of Lima)
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To: NYer

Cardinal Mahony is an evil, demonic pig.


3 posted on 10/29/2006 3:14:46 PM PST by Maeve
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To: NYer

So, in other words, Mahony is going to do whatever he wants, as per usual.


4 posted on 10/29/2006 3:17:27 PM PST by nanetteclaret (Our Lady's Hat Society)
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...


5 posted on 10/29/2006 3:19:34 PM PST by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, geese, algae)
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To: NYer
Receiving Holy Communion under both kinds remains a “more complete” sign

So under one species is less complete?
6 posted on 10/29/2006 3:25:01 PM PST by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: NYer

I guess no one got the memo at our Parish. After Communion the chalices are put on a tray, covered with each purificator. After the Body of Christ is put in to two ciboria (ciboriums) the remaining four are stacked and placed on the credence table along with the tray.

After Mass the sacristan of the week, cleans all of the chalices and ciboriums.

OTOH, we got a new priest two weeks ago. Actually he was here in the 90's as a Parochial Vicar. He's back as the Rector. We didn't think we would be getting another priest. This week our prayers were answered and we have a new Parocial Vicar, a Benedictine Monk. He wants very much to learn to do TLM. Yippee!


7 posted on 10/29/2006 3:43:37 PM PST by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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To: Dominick

Well, according to Cardinal Mahony, who is of course the supreme arbiter in these matters (actually, I think its some kind of heresy or at any rate anathematized doctrinal error to say that communion under one species is not complete).

If they're going to give Communion under both species, I wish they'd use intinction, as the Eastern Rites do. But that would put the EEMS out of a job, and we couldn't have that.


8 posted on 10/29/2006 3:51:04 PM PST by livius
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To: livius
I think its some kind of heresy or at any rate anathematized doctrinal error to say that communion under one species is not complete

Trent:
SESSION THE THIRTEENTH, Being the third under the Sovereign Pontiff, Julius III., celebrated on the eleventh day of October, MDLI. (11 Oct 1551)
...
CANON III.-If any one denieth, that, in the venerable sacrament of the Eucharist, the whole Christ is contained under each species, and under every part of each species, when separated; let him be anathema.


I don't think there is room for more complete or less complete, and Cardinal Arinze points this out clearly.
9 posted on 10/29/2006 4:07:19 PM PST by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Dominick

Ahah, you found it! But that's Trent, and the good Cardinal (Mahony) believes that Trent is so yesterday. Trendy hipster that he is.

Seriously, I don't know how that man keeps his job.


10 posted on 10/29/2006 4:28:30 PM PST by livius
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To: NYer

In other words, "We'll just keep doing what we've been doing, because these directives couldn't possibly apply to us!"


11 posted on 10/29/2006 4:37:33 PM PST by Deo volente
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To: livius
Seriously, I don't know how that man keeps his job.

It is called "satan" ...

12 posted on 10/29/2006 4:39:22 PM PST by Maeve
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To: livius; Dominick; Maeve
If they're going to give Communion under both species, I wish they'd use intinction, as the Eastern Rites do.

You know they won't because that would restrict the 'freedom' of using EMHCs.

Communion in the Maronite Catholic Church is strictly by intinction. The priest dips the Consecrated host into the Precious Blood and places it on the tongue of the communicant with the words:

"The Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ is given to you for the remission of your sins and eternal salvation."

The communion line moves fairly quickly and most efficiently. All children who have not yet received the Sacrament of Holy Communion are blessed by the priest touching the communion cup to their head. Even the youngest child is privileged to receive this blessing. Father knows his congregation and recognizes visitors from the Middle East with the same words, spoken in Arabic.

While it is true that the earliest christians celebrated communion in the hand, they were also instructed to touch their eyes, nose and mouth with the Consecrated host before swallowing the Consecrated host. This practice is no longer practical in today's society. Communion by intinction eliminates all concerns of germ transmission. It is a beautiful and well celebrated practice in the East that should be adopted in the West.

13 posted on 10/29/2006 4:39:37 PM PST by NYer (Apart from the cross, there is no other ladder by which we may get to Heaven. St. Rose of Lima)
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To: NYer

Amen.


14 posted on 10/29/2006 4:41:18 PM PST by Maeve
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To: Maeve

Thank you, Maeve! I live in the archdiocese of Los Angeles and we must suffer him.

Even though I am not Catholic, I am appalled to see what he does to the Church.


15 posted on 10/29/2006 4:45:10 PM PST by La Enchiladita (God bless America, land that I love. NEVER FORGET ... Some Gave All ...)
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To: NYer

"Until Cardinal Mahony and the auxiliary bishops have the opportunity to discuss the new recommendations, both locally and at the general meeting of the USCCB in November, no changes will be made regarding the present policy for the distribution of Holy Communion and/or the purification of the sacred vessels."

The way I read this every single Mass offered in the LA diocese which follows this directive is illicit.


16 posted on 10/29/2006 4:53:12 PM PST by rogator
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To: Dominick

It seems like, to these innovators, Vatican Council II replaced the Council of Trent, and nothing therein decreed any longer applies. Of course, they innovate all kinds of things never mentioned in VCII. The "spirit of", don't you know. How old IS Mahoney, anyway?


17 posted on 10/29/2006 5:01:15 PM PST by ichabod1 (Face it, every empire comes to an end, and ours is on the down hill slope.)
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To: Jaded

At the Catholic church I'm running away from, the sacristy is off the sanctuary, all the way in the back. The choir (myself included) is right next to it, and the only separation is a curtain. We hear the EMHCs back there crashing and banging as they wash the chalices and ciborii. They also chat and converse, quite oblivious to the fact that the mass continues on the other side of the curtain.


18 posted on 10/29/2006 5:04:39 PM PST by ichabod1 (Face it, every empire comes to an end, and ours is on the down hill slope.)
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To: livius

There are two churches I'm running TO, and both use intinction. One is Anglican use. The other uses intinction at the Latin NO, and the host only at the TLM. ALWAYS on the tongue in both places.


19 posted on 10/29/2006 5:06:40 PM PST by ichabod1 (Face it, every empire comes to an end, and ours is on the down hill slope.)
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To: La Enchiladita; Maeve

I think all of us need to pray for the re-conversion of Roger Cardinal Mahoney back to the real Catholic faith. We need to pray for our enemies.


20 posted on 10/29/2006 5:09:44 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: ichabod1

"How old IS Mahoney, anyway?"

Not old enough. He has several years to go unless he gets indicted or something.


21 posted on 10/29/2006 5:11:31 PM PST by rogator
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To: NYer
In the Episcopal church they used to say something I loved: "The Body of Our Lord Jesus Christ which was given for thee. Preserve thy body and soul unto everlasting life." Wow, I just broke out in gooseflesh thinking about it. They don't say it any more. They don't believe it either, I don't think.
22 posted on 10/29/2006 5:13:15 PM PST by ichabod1 (Face it, every empire comes to an end, and ours is on the down hill slope.)
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To: ichabod1

You can't run from or two the same Church. If one does not suit you, then that is your business. People at a parish are a problem, if the people at a Parish are rude like theat then leave.

I am more worried about heritical teaching in these Churches and where EE"M"Cs get a superiority complex with the Eucharist.

If you are making some point that either Church is invalid or departing from Catholicism it then becomes something to address.


23 posted on 10/29/2006 5:13:22 PM PST by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Dominick

No, it was only a figure of speech. I'm leaving because I can't suffer the homosexuality, the casual heresy, the EMOEs, the communion in the hand. The white wine. The lousy music (some of it is good but some is horrible). And so on.

I'm running toward two churches, one Anglican Use, the other very traditional. I love them both.

I'm a new Catholic. I can't stand up and denounce what I see at St. Annes. Not yet, anyway.


24 posted on 10/29/2006 5:17:51 PM PST by ichabod1 (Face it, every empire comes to an end, and ours is on the down hill slope.)
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To: Dominick

Oh, I get your point -- One Holy Catholic Church. Absolutely. Very much so. All three are Roman Catholic. I wouldn't consider anything else.


25 posted on 10/29/2006 5:19:14 PM PST by ichabod1 (Face it, every empire comes to an end, and ours is on the down hill slope.)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah; vox_freedom
... which allows extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion to help cleanse cups and plates when there are not enough priests or deacons to do so.

Again with the cups and plates. Cardinal "in full communion with Rome" Mahony.

26 posted on 10/29/2006 5:21:21 PM PST by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: ichabod1

"In the Episcopal church they used to say something I loved: "The Body of Our Lord Jesus Christ which was given for thee. Preserve thy body and soul unto everlasting life."

In the TLM they say (in Latin)

May the Body of Our Lord Jesus Christ preserve your soul unto eternal life.

I would guess this is where the Episcopal folks got it.


27 posted on 10/29/2006 5:25:01 PM PST by rogator
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To: NYer
You know they won't because that would restrict the 'freedom' of using EMHCs.

I think a lot of this pseudo-problem comes down to that. These gals (I know, there are guys, too) are vitally important to the modernist campaign to devalue the priesthood and take away its distinctiveness. But I think it goes beyond that, to turn into what is essentially an attack on the Sacrament itself. Denigrating the reality of the consecrated species by refusing to provide any special treatment is essentially just another way of trying to bring Catholic teaching in line with the Protestant "symbolic memorial meal" concept.

28 posted on 10/29/2006 5:30:57 PM PST by livius
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To: NYer
From THE EUCHARIST: SOURCE AND SUMMIT OF THE LIFE AND MISSION OF THE CHURCH INSTRUMENTUM LABORIS Source (July 2005):

40. Some Lineamenta responses, however, mention that, at times, a certain way of acting indicates that transubstantiation and the Real Presence are understood in a symbolic sense only. Many responses noted that some celebrants at the liturgy seem more like showmen, who must draw people’s attention to themselves, instead of servants of Christ, called to conduct the faithful to union with him. Obviously, such a way of acting has negative repercussions on the people who run the risk of being confused in both their faith in and understanding of the Real Presence of Christ in the Sacrament.

True and proper liturgical signs and gestures, aimed at expressing faith in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, have been used in Church tradition, for example, the attentive purification of sacred vessels after communion, the steps to be taken when the Eucharistic species might accidentally fall to the floor, genuflections before the tabernacle, the use of the communion plate, the regular replacement of consecrated hosts reserved in the tabernacle, the keeping of the tabernacle key in a secure place and the celebrant’s composure and concentration in keeping with the transcendent and divine character of the Sacrament. Omitting or neglecting any of these sacred gestures, which are significantly important externally, would clearly not contribute to preserving a sound faith in Christ’s Real Presence in the Sacrament. The responses therefore suggest that the gestures and signs expressing faith in the Real Presence be included in a proper mystagogy and liturgical catechesis.

The cleaning of cups and plates not withstanding, the real presence is demonstrated by purification in front of the assembled faithful. Everyone sees that only the Priest or Deacons can be entrusted with this task, and not lay "ministers". I think it addresses two issues, Priests and lay people being unequal in trust, and the real presence.
29 posted on 10/29/2006 5:38:36 PM PST by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: ichabod1

You're very fortunate to have such choices in your area! I had a horrible experience at the NO mass today that made me resolve never to go to another one, but I have few choices. There's an Old Mass about an hour away from me at 8:00 am - in an old downtown church with no community, with the Mass said (or whispered) by an ancient priest at top speed, the very sort of thing that brought on calls for reform. I may have to go to it, but it's not an ideal solution.


30 posted on 10/29/2006 5:38:47 PM PST by livius
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To: Maeve

Satan sure looks after his own. Mahony seems to feel utterly confident that he can flout anything that comes from Rome, without consequence, and so far he seems to have gotten away with it.


31 posted on 10/29/2006 5:40:16 PM PST by livius
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To: Maeve; murphE; vox_freedom
Seriously, I don't know how that man keeps his job.

It is called "satan" ...

Seriously. My trad priest thinks he is "gone", as in full scale voluntary possession.

32 posted on 10/29/2006 5:42:14 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: murphE; Canticle_of_Deborah
Again with the cups and plates. Cardinal "in full communion with Rome" Mahony.

It's now a "meal" dontchaknow. That "sacrifice" and cross was all so pre-Vat2 and we've all moved beyond that gory "body and blood" stuff.
Besides, it turned-off the protestants...//sarc off

33 posted on 10/29/2006 5:42:36 PM PST by vox_freedom (Matthew 5:37 But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no)
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To: livius
Mahony has powerful friends in high and low places.
34 posted on 10/29/2006 5:43:47 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah

Yes. I also see him as sort of the evil spider at the center of the web. So many of the bad guys in the church have been and are connected to him.


35 posted on 10/29/2006 5:46:56 PM PST by livius
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To: livius

"I also see him as sort of the evil spider at the center of the web. "

I see him as Bernardin's ideological successor. He seemed to assume command of the Modernist movement in the U.S. subsequent to Bernardine's departure.


36 posted on 10/29/2006 5:56:19 PM PST by rogator
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To: Salvation

That is a good point, my dear Salvation. We must pray very fervently for his re-conversion and leave our prayers in God's hands. (Personally I believe he is possessed by the enemy and failing exorcism is lost.) Our prayers for him should also include prayers that any evil he seeks to do be thwarted and all such schemes confounded by the power of the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ.


37 posted on 10/29/2006 6:14:37 PM PST by Maeve
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Mahony has powerful friends in high and low places.

"Well, I wouldn't call the Cardinal a friend, he's more like a business associate of ours."

38 posted on 10/29/2006 9:07:40 PM PST by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: livius

I told our brand new Benedictine Priest that I would give up being an EOM for Latin. He smiled


39 posted on 10/29/2006 10:06:15 PM PST by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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To: rogator

"We are more Catholic than the Pope - no need to change a thing."


40 posted on 10/30/2006 12:12:05 AM PST by Notwithstanding
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To: murphE

Scary photo -- was that from the old Millennium series?


41 posted on 10/30/2006 12:50:22 AM PST by Maeve
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To: Jaded

LOL! By the way, I don't mean to imply that people who are "Eucharistic ministers" are doing so with bad motives. After all, we do what our church tells us to do. But I think the whole thing is very misleading, and I do believe that the thinking behind it is not sound, at best, and possibly deceitful and covering an ulterior motive, at worst. In my mind, this is confirmed by Mahony's determination to hang onto the EEMs, even encouraging them to go on doing something specifically forbidden by Rome.


42 posted on 10/30/2006 3:17:37 AM PST by livius
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To: Maeve

yup. : D


43 posted on 10/30/2006 4:12:01 AM PST by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: livius
I do believe that the thinking behind it is not sound, at best, and possibly deceitful and covering an ulterior motive, at worst.

I think it is part of the "everyman a priest" concept they push. I have heard it said that all heresies come from clergy and all reform comes from the people.This kind of sloganeering is designed to poison the well from which we bring up Priests, giving us a higher percentage of confused people with objective disorders. There are good Priests out there, and good seminaries, the spoiled years are being washed out, and things are improving all over.

I think in two areas the problem is the EEM program. In one place, the EEMs are given a task that equates their dignity to one of a Priest. They can do everything, but confect the Eucharist. So what next, "reformers" can claim, "what a silly rule, we don't need it!". Next step could be "emergency" Mass said by a stand in EEM for a Priest. People use "emergencies" all the time to justify breaking the rules.

Second is disobedience. Set up a small issue, purification of the vessels. People get mad when you take away a n important job. Mahoney counts on it, but the Church leadership correctly points out the liturgical and theological reasoning right away. This undercuts the liberals.

Take a stance and ask the liberals to adhere to it. They will spend political capital fighting it, and lose. Mahoney is losing on a lot of fronts, I think his extravagance is costing him. As far as the west coast, perhaps there is a bigger plan on the part of the Vatican to bring it into line.

You are correct though EEMs are trying to do what they think is asked of them, it is just asked of them by a Bishop with an agenda of disobedience.
44 posted on 10/30/2006 5:17:48 AM PST by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Dominick
I think it is part of the "everyman a priest" concept they push.

That's my suspicion, too. It's also a step towards the "symbolic memorial" concept of the Eucharist. And of course the other thing it is designed to do is to get people accustomed to seeing women performing these functions.

I certainly hope Rome has a bigger plan to get a grip on the West Coast. It has been out of control for decades. BTW, am I the only one who remembers the big stand-off between Cdl McIntyre and the IHM's that was really the opening gun for a lot of this nonsense on the West Coast?

45 posted on 10/30/2006 5:39:53 AM PST by livius
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To: NYer
Receiving Holy Communion under both kinds remains a “more complete” sign of the sacrament’s meaning

This is only slightly heretical. He's a modern day Hussite.

46 posted on 10/30/2006 6:41:53 AM PST by Rutles4Ever ("My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." (2 Cor. 12:9))
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To: Rutles4Ever
He's a modern day Hussite.

Wikipedia states: In 1430, Joan of Arc dictated a letter on March 23 that threatened to lead a crusading army against the Hussites unless they returned to the Catholic Faith. Letter

Specifically Utraquism, according to the wikipedia if thats correct. They held the heresy that both kids of communion is complete.

Interesting, I learned something about Hussites! Thanks! I always that had something to do with hussies...
47 posted on 10/30/2006 7:20:09 AM PST by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Dominick
This is where I learned about the ultraquists/Hussites. Excellent book.

The Hidden Manna


48 posted on 10/30/2006 7:45:14 AM PST by Rutles4Ever ("My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." (2 Cor. 12:9))
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To: Dominick

BTW - great Joan of Arc site. I didn't realize she had so much surviving correspondence...


49 posted on 10/30/2006 7:48:05 AM PST by Rutles4Ever ("My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." (2 Cor. 12:9))
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To: Maeve

That's silly. As much as I dislike Mahoney, attributing his continued reign to the power of Satan is - no offense intended - blasphemous. That's like saying Satan picked Judas to be an Apostle. It's especially troublesome when one considers that it's the pope's prerogative to either keep Mahoney as Cardinal or bust him down to "private". Now, I know you don't think that Pope Benedict is a tool for Satan, and I know you don't think that Jesus was doing Satan's will by not kicking Judas off the island before he could betray Our Lord.

Mahoney is a fact of life. Why does God allow this? Perhaps to remind us that not everyone in the Church is playing on the same team. Perhaps to spur orthodox Catholicism to stand its ground and bring the "experiments" to an end. But whatever we think of Mahoney, one thing is certain - he is serving God's purpose by being there, for the good of all. If/when it's time for Mahoney to go, he will be removed.


50 posted on 10/30/2006 8:04:49 AM PST by Rutles4Ever ("My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." (2 Cor. 12:9))
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