Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: annalex
I enjoy it when the Catholics quote the Reformers. Are they part of the Church Fathers now? At least I have the luxury of saying they were in error. :O)

All of the examples the author uses are people praying for other people. There is only one example in scripture of someone asking a dead saint to intercede in behave of him before God. Saul tried this with Samuel and it didn't go well for him. The author only eludes to this event and this is what he has to say:

As Isaiah states, "Why consult the dead on behave of the living? To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn." Now there's a sola scriptura verse if I ever heard one. Leave it to a Catholic to share that one with me. :O)

The author makes the claim,

If the Catholics do not pray to those who are dead in the spirit, the question is how do you know who is in heaven? How do you KNOW who are spiritually alive in Christ? Wouldn't it make you a tad nervous given the author's criteria, that praying to Saint Thomas More might not be as safe as praying to Saint Peter? Besides, Samuel was not dead in the spirit, yet God was pretty mad at Saul about the whole affair as was Samuel. Seems to me it's a shaky argument at best.
7 posted on 11/30/2006 5:32:54 AM PST by HarleyD (Mat 19:11 "But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies ]


To: HarleyD
how do you know who is in heaven?

You can pray without a certain knowledge. You pray on the assumption that the intercessor is in Heaven, and if he is not, the prayer goes unanswered. In the case of a saint of the Church, we know because of the canonization that examined signs of sainthood.

A saint is not a sinless person (you bring up St. Peter whose sinful nature is amply described in the Gospel). The fact that you have a grievance against St. Thomas More but not against St. Peter does not invalidate St. Thomas More's status as a martyr.

God was pretty mad at Saul about the whole affair

The Church teaches that the fathers of the Hebrews were not a part of the Communion of Saints till Christ rescued them from the Limbo, so the entire Old Testament line of argument is moot.

8 posted on 11/30/2006 1:48:53 PM PST by annalex
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies ]

To: HarleyD
There is only one example in scripture of someone asking a dead saint to intercede in behave of him before God. Saul tried this with Samuel and it didn't go well for him.

Harley, that's flat wrong and you know it.

First off, conjuring up a dead person using a medium is always wrong, so that was Saul's first error. And Saul doesn't ask Samuel to "intercede in behave [sic] of him before God." 1 Sam 28:16 tells you, and Samuel, exactly why Saul conjured him up: "I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.".

That's the sin of necromancy, it was necromancy for Saul and it would be the sin of necromancy if a Catholic did it.

17 posted on 11/30/2006 6:00:10 PM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson