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Homily of the Ecumenical Patriarch before Benedict (Fr. Z's Commentary)
What Does The Prayer Really Say? ^ | 12/1/2006 | Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Posted on 12/01/2006 7:48:24 PM PST by Pyro7480

During the Divine Liturgy for the Feast of St. Andrew the Ecumenical Patriarch gave a homily that got my attention. Remember how important the Divine Liturgy is for the identity of the Orthodox.

Frankly, I think liturgy is a serious issue for ecumenical dialogue with the East. Think about this. They look at the stupid things the Latins have done and are doing to the sacred liturgy, about how those desiring traditional liturgy from lay people to priests, are marginalized and berated. They see the leaders of a group of "traditionalists" are ecommunicated. And they are going to get closer to Rome? Would they hope that their traditions would be respected were they to give greater submission to the authority of Peter which the Pope of Rome exercises?

Here is the text of the Patriarch’s homily (my emphasis and comments).

With the grace of God, Your Holiness, we have been blessed to enter the joy of the Kingdom, to "see the true light and receive the heavenly Spirit." Every celebration of the Divine Liturgy is a powerful and inspiring con-celebration of heaven and of history. [BOOM. This concise phrase also expresses what the Latin Church thinks. This is an encounter with the transcendent. An encounter which transforms the human experience.] Every Divine Liturgy is both an anamnesis of the past and an anticipation of the Kingdom. [Holy Mass makes the historical event present in a sacramental way, which is no less "real" than the reality we sense and touch, etc.] We are convinced that during this Divine Liturgy, we have once again been transferred spiritually in three directions: toward the kingdom of heaven where the angels celebrate; toward the celebration of the liturgy through the centuries; and toward the heavenly kingdom to come. [Perfect. Beautifully put.]

This overwhelming continuity with heaven as well as with history means that the Orthodox [And Latin!] liturgy is the mystical experience and profound conviction that "Christ was, is, and ever shall be in our midst!" For in Christ, there is a deep connection between past, present, and future. In this way, the liturgy is more than merely the recollection of Christ’s words and acts. It is the realization of the very presence of Christ Himself, who has promised to be wherever two or three are gathered in His name.

At the same time, we recognize that the rule of prayer is the rule of faith (lex orandi lex credendi), [When I heard this phrase, in Latin, from the lips of the Ecumenical Patriarch I almost did a spit-take on my monitor! In my opinion, the Patriarch is letting us know one of their serious points of concern about their Western brothers. What are we doing with our liturgy? If you Latins are celebrating your Mass in the way we see you celebrating, what on earth do you believe? Do you believe what we believe?] that the doctrines of the Person of Christ and of the Holy Trinity have left an indelible mark on the liturgy, which comprises one of the undefined doctrines, "revealed to us in mystery," of which St. Basil the Great so eloquently spoke. This is why, in liturgy, we are reminded of the need to reach unity in faith as well as in prayer. Therefore, we kneel in humility [This is amazingly ironic. The Orthodox don’t kneel as much as Latins do, in one sense, as when we enter our churches. No… wait… in a lot of places you never see Latins kneel at all anymore, do you? Especially during Mass?] and repentance before the living God and our Lord Jesus Christ, whose precious Name we bear and yet at the same time whose seamless garment we have divided. We confess in sorrow that we are not yet able to celebrate the holy sacraments in unity. And we pray that the day may come when this sacramental unity will be realized in its fullness.

And yet, Your Holiness and beloved brother in Christ, this con-celebration of heaven and earth, of history and time, brings us closer to each other today through the blessing of the presence, together with all the saints, of the predecessors of our Modesty, namely St. Gregory the Theologian and St. John Chrysostom. [Good reminder.] We are honored to venerate the relics of these two spiritual giants after the solemn restoration of their sacred relics in this holy church two years ago when they were graciously returned to us by the venerable Pope John Paul II. Just as, at that time, during our Thronal Feast, we welcomed and placed their saintly relics on the Patriarchal Throne, chanting "Behold your throne!", so today we gather in their living presence and eternal memory as we celebrate the Liturgy named in honor of St. John Chrysostom.

Thus our worship coincides with the same joyous worship in heaven and throughout history. Indeed, as St. John Chrysostom himself affirms: "Those in heaven and those on earth form a single festival, a shared thanksgiving, one choir" (PG 56.97). Heaven and earth offer one prayer, one feast, one doxology. The Divine Liturgy is at once the heavenly kingdom and our home, "a new heaven and a new earth" (Rev. 21.1), the ground and center where all things find their true meaning. The Liturgy teaches us to broaden our horizon and vision, to speak the language of love and communion, but also to learn that we must be with one another in spite of our differences and even divisions. In its spacious embrace, it includes the whole world, the communion of saints, and all of God’s creation. The entire universe becomes "a cosmic liturgy", to recall the teaching of St. Maximus the Confessor. This kind of Liturgy can never grow old or outdated. [Again, I ask, what must they think about what we are doing in our churches? what we are doing to those who want the traditional forms?]

The only appropriate response to this showering of divine benefits and compassionate mercy is gratitude (eucharistia). Indeed, thanksgiving and glory are the only fitting response of human beings to their Creator. For to Him belong all glory, honor, and worship: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; now and always, and to the ages of ages. Amen.

Truly, particular and wholehearted gratitude fills our hearts toward the loving God, for today, on the festive commemoration of the Apostle founder and protector of this Church, the Divine Liturgy is attended by His Holiness our brother and bishop of the elder Rome, Pope Benedict XVI, together with his honorable entourage. Once again, we gratefully greet this presence as a blessing from God, as an expression of brotherly love and honor toward our Church, and as evidence of our common desire to continue – in a spirit of love and faithfulness to the Gospel Truth and the common tradition of our Fathers – the unwavering journey toward the restoration of full communion among our Churches, which constitutes His divine will and command. May it be so.

This gorgeous homily gives us serious food for thought. You would have to be pretty darn hard of heart not to rethink any cold resistance you might have to anyone who have entirely legitimate aspirations for traditional expressions of the Church’s ongoing grateful worship of Almighty God.

Also, apply what the Patriarch said about your parish and your manner of participation. 


TOPICS: Current Events; Prayer; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: benedict; orthodox; patriarch; pope
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To: kosta50
But your comment is spot on because I do not understand how the Latins started to kneel on Sundays if they fully recognize (and therefore abide by) the First Ecumenical Council's decisions.

We don't generally consider that the disciplinary (as distinct from doctrinal) canons of e.g. Nicaea I apply to us, or apply in perpetuity, or anything like that.

"Don't kneel on Sunday" is a disciplinary thing. I think it's fine that the East maintains it, but as far as we're concerned, we haven't followed that particular canon for centuries, if indeed we ever did.

41 posted on 12/03/2006 2:59:09 PM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Kolokotronis; Pyro7480

"make sure you pick the right seminary"

Isn't that the truth. A couple of relatives of a good friend of mine were recently ordained to the Catholic priesthood -- they were both fortunate enough to get to go to the Vatican for much of their education. They love BXVI, which is a good sign. One of them didn't dare go back to his home diocese, knowing that he'd end up getting in big trouble with his very liberal bishop in short order.

One of the seminaries near where I once lived was colloquially known as the biggest gay frat-house in the state. And that was what friendly Roman Catholics had to say about it -- it went downhill from there.

From what I've been told, it isn't easy to find a Catholic seminary in the US with traditional morals, traditional theology, traditional liturgics -- and that's without even touching the question of getting a grounding in patristics that would meet Kolokotronis's standards! :-)

I wish you all the best -- let us know what happens. And we'll be here to guide you in the proper understanding of the Fathers, and you can pass the info on to your profs. :-)


42 posted on 12/03/2006 3:10:54 PM PST by Agrarian
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To: Agrarian; Kolokotronis; Pyro7480

There are some good ones. The Pontifical College Josephinum in Ohio and Holy Apostles in Connecticut are two that I hear good things about.


43 posted on 12/03/2006 3:32:20 PM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Agrarian; Kolokotronis; Campion

Thanks for all the advice. :) My "ideal" is to join the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, since I have fallen in love with the pre-conciliar Latin rite. But that depends on a lot of things, God's Providence being the biggie. ;-)


44 posted on 12/03/2006 3:38:00 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Pyro7480

Get thee to Nebraska, but buy a good winter coat first. ;-)


45 posted on 12/03/2006 4:22:25 PM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: kosta50
Well, it's not the Second Coming — yet. :)

Of course, but He is really and truly present in the Eucharist.

46 posted on 12/03/2006 6:15:08 PM PST by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
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To: ELS
Of course, but He is really and truly present in the Eucharist

But that's not what the NT says about bending of every knee. It specifically refers to His second coming.

47 posted on 12/04/2006 6:25:31 AM PST by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Campion; Kolokotronis
We don't generally consider that the disciplinary (as distinct from doctrinal) canons of e.g. Nicaea I apply to us, or apply in perpetuity, or anything like that.

So, you are somehow exempt from Ecumenical Council pronouncements, but obey local council disciplinary rules?

"Don't kneel on Sunday" is a disciplinary thing. I think it's fine that the East maintains it, but as far as we're concerned, we haven't followed that particular canon for centuries, if indeed we ever did

That much is obvious. I only wonder where and who gave the Latin Church specifically the authority to ignore the binding decisions of the whole Church and make its own rules?

To the best of my knowledge, there are no specific instructions which part of an Ecumenical Council one is to follow and which to ignore. Are you telling me that for instance the American Catholic Church can make its own rules contrary to the Vatican II?

48 posted on 12/04/2006 6:33:21 AM PST by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Pyro7480; Kolokotronis
Maximus claimed that in using the filioque the Romans, 'do not make the Son the cause of the Spirit, for they know that the Father is the one cause of the Son and the Spirit, the one by begetting and the other by procession, but they show the progression through him and thus the unity of the essence.'

There are two issues at hand: the Councils specifically prohibited additions or deletions from their text. Addition of the filioque into the Creed is a violation of that prohibition.

Second, if the Latins truly believe that the Son is also not the cause of the Spirit, they need to state so emphatucally in their Catechism: the cause of the Spirit's existence is not the Son.

Better yet, just stick with the original Creed.

49 posted on 12/04/2006 6:50:06 AM PST by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
So, you are somehow exempt from Ecumenical Council pronouncements, but obey local council disciplinary rules?

No, I think what I should have said is that we don't view those (disciplinary) rules as binding-in-perpetuity. They can be overridden by later law.

But after researching this issue, that doesn't appear to be what happened. It appears that the West understood this canon to apply primarily to the formal "bidding prayers" or intercessions at Mass. (This would correspond to the ektenia in the Byzantine tradition, but is not exactly the same thing.) NB that the canon says "the prayers," but isn't exactly clear which prayers.

Apparently, the custom at the time was to kneel after every individual petition, and the West understood the Nicene canon as prohibiting that kneeling on Sundays, etc.

Today, the only place the formal bidding prayers survive is in the liturgy of Good Friday, where we do in fact kneel (of course). They were abrogated completely in the Tridentine Rite of the Mass. They were restored as the "General Intercessions" in the new rite, but those are always offered with everyone standing.

As far as the anaphora is concerned, I'm not clear how Western kneeling during the anaphora relates to the Nicene canon historically. I can try to find out more on the history; this is what I was able to dig up on the Internet.

50 posted on 12/04/2006 9:24:31 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: kosta50

As I'm sure you're aware, the overlapping jurisdictions in Orthodoxy (and Catholicism, for that matter) violate another of the Nicene canons.


51 posted on 12/04/2006 9:26:26 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Campion

Well, that is a fallout of 1054, unfortunately.


52 posted on 12/04/2006 10:38:44 AM PST by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

Overlapping jurisdictions within Orthodoxy itself aren't the fallout of 1054.


53 posted on 12/04/2006 10:41:58 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Campion
No, I think what I should have said is that we don't view those (disciplinary) rules as binding-in-perpetuity. They can be overridden by later law

Sure they can — by another Ecumenical Council.

You can't just change the discipline of celbiate Latin priesthood without either a general synod of the Catholic Church or papal pronouncement. Celibacy among the priests was finally laid down as law exactly that way and it will take exactly that way to undo it, if ever.

My point is that the Latins practiced kneeling while still in the Undivided Church that decreed standing during prayers as the norm.

I don't see why there should be any attempt to speculate which prayers are included (ektenias or anaphoras), the Council specifically mentioned "praying" and that to me means all prayers in the Church on Sundays.

I realize that one can dismiss such miniscule issues and say they are simply "discipline" and not theology. The problem is that this is an issue of a principle as well as particularities. The Councils are not tradition with a small "t" but part of the Holy Tradition with a big "T." They are not subject to change as one sees fit to keep up with the times, and other issues.

Mind you, this does not only affect our east-west relationship because the East has its own baggage in that regard. For instance, what about the specific mention of women being covered in church? It's actually apostolic commandment, yet the hierarchy does not insist on it (Orhtodox monasteries do, however).

Protestantism has shown us that once you start breaking one rule, you might as well breka them all. Once we break one God's commandment, we broke them all. (cf James 2:10)

54 posted on 12/04/2006 10:55:16 AM PST by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Campion

I though you were referring to Orthodox and Catholic overlaps. What overlapping Orthodox jurisdictions are you referring to?


55 posted on 12/04/2006 10:56:51 AM PST by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

The situation in Ukraine, for example, or the situation right here in the US, where you have SCOBA, OCA, ROCOR, and various other hierarchies overlapping each other.


56 posted on 12/04/2006 10:59:04 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: The_Reader_David

Thanks, brother.


57 posted on 12/04/2006 12:22:33 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: Campion; kosta50; The_Reader_David; Kolokotronis; Agrarian; BlackElk; sitetest
Thanks, brother campion. May Perfidous Albion do public penance for what they did to he your s/n references.

FWIW I am partial to having the laity join the priest in a semi-circle around the altar as was the practice for a very long time. I think that posture might reawaken in the laity their duty to also offer the Sacrifice in their role as priests.

I was learnt that, for us laity,there are four PARTs of the Mass. Petition, Adoration, Reparation, Thanksgiving - of which, obviously, Adoration is primary. I wonder if the laity are catechised as we used to be back in the day. Readopting that old arrangement might tend to reawaken the laity. Gathering at the altar to join with the Priest in offering the Pluperfect Sacrifice of the New Covenant as an act of propitiation, among other ends, might wake us up. Maybe not.

However, that is my major platform to be considered Papabile. (That and massive excommmunications)

58 posted on 12/04/2006 12:35:11 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: Pyro7480

That is smashing news, brother. I will pray for you.


59 posted on 12/04/2006 12:36:59 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: kosta50
Second Council of Lyons says otherwise (I think that's the one - that was off the top of my head)re the Filioque.

You can find all the Councils online and read them. When you do, you'll see disciplinary Canons repeated referenced and others not repeatedly referenced.

I must be missing what you are trying to get at

60 posted on 12/04/2006 12:41:25 PM PST by bornacatholic
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