'The Nativity Story' Movie Problematic for Catholics, "Unsuitable" for Young Children

LifeSiteNews.com ^ | 12/4/2006 | John-Henry Westen

[kosta50]

Our Parish recently received as converts, a Muslim family of nine

I would invest some money in kevlar helmets and flak jackets. Muslim apostates are not viewed favorably by other Muslims.

[Kolokotronis]

"Our Parish recently received as converts, a Muslim family of nine.

Top that, brother :)"

Our Ethiopians' first cousins did something to Mohammedans in Mogadishu. Does that count? :)

[Kolokotronis]

"He hasn't been back to church and we have scaled down the size of our mega church building project to a couple of small class rooms."

He sent a letter to the office which we passed on to the judicial pension administrators. They are all very excited and I understand some of the judges near retirement age have already bought big retirement homes down in the Caribbean as opposed to those small condos they were planning on, not needing to worry about the money anymore dontcha know.

[Blogger]

Nowhere in Scripture are we instructed to pray to people who have died. That is the objection. We ask friends and family and pastors and such to pray for us. But Mad Dawg, I would dare say that Catholics pray to Mary more than they pray to the Lord. And you know well that some have taken Marian devotion to the point of worship. Not some, a lot. We simply see nothing like what Marian devotion has become in the Bible or the very early church.

[Blogger]

In my defense, I do not see who was speaking to me by scanning a thread. I click on PING. If you click on ping, your tagline does NOT appear.

[Blogger]

No human is worthy, period. Not of our exaltation. Not of our worship.

The adoration of humans has to do with feelings. When I say, I adore you to a fellow human it is basically a way of saying I feel a super amount of love and affection for you.

Adoration of God has more to do with Awe. When I adore God, when I have gotten a glimpse of His glory and have felt his presence, there really isn't a lot of talking that can be done. I am totally undone. I realize how completely unworthy I am of one bit of his favor and yet he loved me. When I consider the cross, I am in awe of God and my actions are that of adoration. It isn't just a gushy feeling, it is a realization of our own unworthiness and God's holiness, grace, goodness, etc., Largely, it is worship. Human adoration isn't even close.

[Blogger]

No human is worthy, period. Not of our exaltation. Not of our worship.

The adoration of humans has to do with feelings. When I say, I adore you to a fellow human it is basically a way of saying I feel a super amount of love and affection for you.

Adoration of God has more to do with Awe. When I adore God, when I have gotten a glimpse of His glory and have felt his presence, there really isn't a lot of talking that can be done. I am totally undone. I realize how completely unworthy I am of one bit of his favor and yet he loved me. When I consider the cross, I am in awe of God and my actions are that of adoration. It isn't just a gushy feeling, it is a realization of our own unworthiness and God's holiness, grace, goodness, etc., Largely, it is worship. Human adoration isn't even close.

[kosta50]

That's heart-breaking

These monasteries are under 24-hour international occupying force guard to prevent Albanian extremists from destroying them (they already managed to destroy or demage over 100!).

Here are some more photos

The Monastery High Dechani, 677 years old, in Kosovo, Serbia, surrounded by chestnuts.

Each morning starts with the Divine Liturgy (Mass)

The choir (the "harmonious monks").

I hope I can see these monuments of Serbian Orthodoxy one of these days. My ancestros prayed in them in the same manner and in the same language we use to worship to this day.

[Blogger]

You are not told to pray to anyone but God, be they in heaven or on earth.

[Blogger]

Baloney. We are not to pray to mere humans be they immortal or not.

[bornacatholic]

As soon as I saw them at Mass, I went online and ordered some Potassium Iodide

[bornacatholic]

Our Ethiopians' first cousins did something to Mohammedans in Mogadishu. Does that count? :)

*Absolutely. They showed more commitment than Clinton

[bornacatholic]

Hey, my Sister-in-law just got back from Malta and brought me a little book about "Saint Paul in Malta." It mentions, Topos Dithalassos.

I wonner if you two have heard of it. You prolly have :)

[Kolokotronis]

"You are not told to pray to anyone but God, be they in heaven or on earth."

Well, my people have been doing just that and in the same manner for about 1800 years, maybe longer. But then again, what would Greeks know, not having had the KJV to guide us.

[Blogger]

Your last statement I agree with. But my works do not save me. NONE of us believes that good works don't have to follow true faith. If it is true faith good works WILL follow. We are just saying salvation is NOT OF US. It is of God. Our works don't get us saved. Our works don't keep us saved. It is ALL Jesus.

Through His grace, once we are saved, the Holy Spirit indwells us and works in our lives producing good works. If that fruit isn't there, chances are that one of two things has happened 1)We are not truly saved and our claim to faith is a delusion or lie 2)We are truly saved, but were never discipled to grow through the Word of God. Say someone is saved at a Billy Graham crusade, but never plugs into a place where he can hear God's Word. Instead, he goes to the first church of the Television and picks out a preacher than he likes to hear. You are likely to not see a lot of growth there. He will be fed milk all of his life and will stagnate. That person may still be saved, but their fruits may only be that they are kinder people (not something easy to quantify if you want to be a fruit inspector).

If they had been discipled, by that point they might even be the teachers themselves.

The Bible says that there will be people in heaven who are saved yet as by fire. There aren't really a lot of rewards for folks like that and yet, they are there. Why? Because it isn't because of works of righteousness which they had done but by his mercy he saved us (Titus 2).

Off the subject, trying to figure out who all I am talking to, The_Reader_David, Kosta, Kawaii, and Kolokotronis are the Orthodox on this thread. Are there more?

[Blogger]

Kolo, you know it isn't in Scripture to pray to people. Jesus said "When you pray, say OUR FATHER." He never said pray "Our mother or St. Lucy or whatever..." Prayers in Scripture are always to God unless you are of a pagan religion.

[Blogger]

Not close.

[kosta50]

Nowhere in Scripture are we instructed to pray to people who have died. That is the objection

Well, in the Scripture we are instructed only to pray the Lord's Prayer. Any other prayer could be objectionable as superfluous.

If those who are in heaven are alive, and if the Kingdom of Heaven abides in us, then it is not objectionable.

And you know well that some have taken Marian devotion to the point of worship. Not some, a lot

That's possible, but you will have to provide some credible statistics to back this up. The Church cannot be held accountable for excesses of the individual members, but what the Church backs as doctrine. As far as the Church teaching is concerned, your statement is false.

We simply see nothing like what Marian devotion has become in the Bible or the very early church

Marian devotion appears with +Ignatius, the thrid bishop of Antioch and a disciple of Apostoles (end of 1st century, doesn't get much earlier than that).

One thing is certain though: there are no traces of sola-scriptura "reformers" in the early Church, and for the next 1,400 years.

[Blogger]

Well, in the Scripture we are instructed only to pray the Lord's Prayer. Any other prayer could be objectionable as superfluous.
NO YOU ARE NOT! Jesus' prayer is the model prayer. Later in Scripture there are many instructions to prayer. NONE of them include praying to Saints or any other human. We are to pray to God.

[kosta50]

I have not heard of it.