Idol of Lincoln inside the tomb:
Tomb of Lincoln, used for political ancestor-worship:
Posted on 12/06/2006 6:18:21 AM PST by NYer
Idol of Lincoln inside the tomb:
Tomb of Lincoln, used for political ancestor-worship:
That is very funny now that you mention it.
do you ever visit graves of your deceased relatives? get a grip
And we're saying you're engaging in rash judgement, and ought to pluck the plank out of your own eye.
Talk about "silly." "Easter" is not in the Bible, either--nor is "Christmas." But the birth, death and resurrection is clearly there, as is the incarnation (Phil 2, etc.) and Trinity (multiple passages) you reference. The actualies of the incarnation and Trinity are testamental realities--not merely terms slapped on after the fact.
In other words, the key here is not simply to make word distinctions only...note I used the phrase "word & practice" in previous posting. Show me the "practice" of any Biblical character praying to or being devoted to someone who was dead besides the use of a medium in Saul & Samuel's day.
"Veneration" is not simply a contextual-less word. It has a use and practice today. The question is: As it is applied today, are there precedents for it that exist in Biblical times?
When Catholics need your idiosyncratic views of Scripture to inform us as to Catholicism or less complete forms of Christianity, we will be sure to let you be the first to know. St. Paul came along about 1500 years before Luther suddenly imagined himself called to "reform" the Catholic religion founded and guaranteed by the promises of Jesus Christ Himself. St. Paul is a standard under Jesus Christ. Luther is a deviation.
As to "ancestor" "worship", there are two elements. First St. Paul would have to qualify as an ancestor. He was a bishop if ever there was one. According to some folks, that suggests that he must have been at least a husband and possibly a father. Name his wife and each of his children.
Second, there is the matter of "worship." Definition please.
Next, there is a rather sizable Lutheran Church in a community near me, so sizable that it has an inner city location as well as a much larger location in a nicer location. Each is called St. Paul's Lutheran. Are the good folks of those congregations running a risk of "ancestor worship???" Should they rename their facilities Harvest Moon Lutheran or whatever???? Likewise, Episcopalians have the Cathedral of St. John in NYC.
More importantly, who died and left you or your fellow reformists in charge of preaching your respective curious idiosyncrasies as to Scripture at Catholics????
You don't actually believe that any adequately catechized Roman Catholic is going to swap the Truth and the guarantees and promises of Jesus Christ and the Mass and the 7 sacraments established by Him for the choice of some cult among tens of thousands in the reformed stew of idiosyncratic and often conflicting "Scriptural" interpretations by each and every reformed Tom, Dick and squabbling Harriet with a Bible, some reading lessons and an agenda and a half, do you???
We Catholics draft no one much less you. Go preach to your own. Do you actually think you perform a service by dividing conservatives on websites such as this???
There were people being healed by touching Elijah's dead bones, last time I checked.
Yes, I'll go in for the flogging next week. Oops, another secret divulged!
First, show us where "Biblical" is in the Bible.
Tsk, tsk, tsk. A pagan obelisk, no less, in that first photo.
Well, when the Jesuits and Opus Dei take over the world, I wouldn't expect to get invitations to the good parties if I were you.
I've been busy for a few years, now that I'm back I see that your still stuck on stupid.
Not that I'm surprised.
He/She said judgmentally.
As for whether it's "rash," I'm not painting a broad brush. Many Catholics do not pray to dead saints.
But pick up any newspaper and read the ad section. Inevitably, some saint is being venerated as having the "market" on answered prayers for some specialty.
It's this practice that leads me to investigate, "What is the broader foundational structure that undergirds these ads and spiritual practices?"
All I am doing is exploring that. Now if you're telling me there's no relationship between the devotion and veneration of a dead saint's tomb and those newspaper ads I read, clarify for me how I'm off-base. I'm willing to be "tutored" in this area.
I say we destroy those evil statues and memorials!!!!!!!! Can't let anything distract us as a NATION, of what we should REALLY be venerating, and venerating alone, GOD!
That reminds me, time to burn the pictures of my dead relatives. I keep forgetting. After all, can't let anything "dilute" my love of God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wouldn't say there's "no relationship," but the newspaper ads are basically informal folk piety. But I think it's strange that you would think a newspaper ad that says "thank you" somehow tends toward idolatry.
...and for every dog that yelps, another direct hit is scored.
Touching of the nose. More idol worship by ignorant Americans.
9000 words are a waste... Once again, WWPD - What Would Paul Do? How much more can you HONOR/VENERATE a person by abiding by their wishes?! Paul would have none of this.
Your argument is with Paul, not me.
It's not just a husk since Jesus came back with a body. He ate to prove it, let Thomas touch him to prove it. Bodies are sacred when they are alive. When they are dead they are still reminders that God used and uses the machinery of the world to do his will. He made his own Son flesh and blood, not a blob of light. And he promised ressurection of the body.
That's certainly the way to win the world for Christ.
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