Vatican archaeologists unearth St. Paul's tomb

Pravda ^ | December 6, 2006

[Campion]

Touching a statue's nose "for good luck" is a Babylonian practice dating back to Nimrod and Semiramis!

[Titanites]

Touching a statue's nose "for good luck" is a Babylonian practice dating back to Nimrod and Semiramis!

And I saw a priest touch his nose during Mass one time! Now I understand.

[Cap'n Crunch]

And still a legend in your own mind. Direct hit... hahahahahahaha.... your boomerang keeps hitting your own thick skull.

[ichabod1]

Lincoln is incorrupt.

[ELS]

AT 11 A.M. ON MONDAY, DECEMBER 11, in the John Paul II Hall the Holy See Press Office, a press conference will be held to present the recent restoration work on the sarcophagus of St. Paul in the Roman basilica of St. Paul's Outside-the-Walls. Participating in the conference will be Cardinal Andrea Cordero Lanza di Montezemolo, archpriest of St. Paul's Outside-the-Walls, Giorgio Filippi, archeologist, and Pier Carlo Visconti, an official from the administration of the basilica. .../IN BRIEF/... VIS 061206 (190)

[P-Marlowe]

if we changed the word from "venerate" to "pay respects" to Saint Paul would you be cool with it?

If God is no respecter of persons, why should we be? Does the glory and honor of Paul's mission go to God or to Paul. Paul would not take any credit for God's work.

[Colofornian]

I say we destroy those evil statues and memorials!!!!!!!! Can't let anything distract us as a NATION, of what we should REALLY be venerating, and venerating alone, GOD!That reminds me, time to burn the pictures of my dead relatives. I keep forgetting. After all, can't let anything "dilute" my love of God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I already anticipated somebody making this juvenile response, which is why I already included the Biblical paradox of the commandment to honor our earthly father that at first glance seems to be opposed by those passages in Matthew.

First of all, those who are wholly devoted to God tend to have more love to go around to all--including our enemies--than less. (Mother Teresa having been an excellent example).

The problem in your comment is that you see the world as a "pie" to be sliced up...God gets a portion, your family gets another portion, your sports teams get yet another portion...etc.

But God isn't simply first, second, third, etc. As we love the "least of these," Jesus says we are loving Him. As the pre-Paul, Saul, persecuted His church, Jesus asked, "Why are you persecuting ME?"

As we love others, we love Him (see especially 1 John for this). As we love our family members, we love Him.

But you and I both know that any person can become a rival or competitor with God's love. If a Muslim college student comes to the states, converts to Christ, and his father tells him he must come back home to live as a Muslim, a rivalry is established.

But as long as you live in your "pie piece" world, if I was to cite the numerous Biblical passages about being whole-hearted toward God (including Jesus saying we should love Him with our whole heart, mind, soul, strength), you would dare poke fun at that and conclude, "Oh, I guess wholeheartedness toward God leaves room for noone else...guess I'll divorce my spouse."

Time your upgrade your argument.

[Campion]

Don't forget, the Jesuits killed Lincoln because he knew too much!!

Then they erected that blasphemous temple to him to trick innocent Bible-believing Americans into worshipping him as a 'god'!!

It all fits together ...

[P-Marlowe]

I'm going to post some pictures of Abraham Lincoln's tomb. I want you to tell me whether the respect paid to his rotting corpse shames Lincoln, and shames the United States.

If I saw people kneeling before that tomb, and praying to Lincoln for a healing, and believing that touching the tomb of Lincoln could precipitate some miracle, then I would dare to say that they would be dishonoring God.

[Colofornian]

Demonstrating your charity and spiritual insight by accusing people of idolatry and then calling them "dogs," Dan?

"Dogs" is a multi-biblical reference for people. Or don't you know your Scripture? Even Jesus referenced a group of people as "dogs"...prompting the inquirer of Jesus to focus in on the fact that even "dogs" rec'd the crumbs dropping from the table.

Most of the time it's a negative reference. But a biblical hero's name, "Caleb" means dog...we all know lovable dogs who have been wonderful pets of whom we would ne'er think a negative thought.

[GourmetDan]

"...meaning, those that are in Christ, he that is gloried, let him be gloried in the Lord, which is exactly what Catholics do when we VENERATE someone, we HONOR them for their sainthood, their PLACE in CHRIST."

Sorry, those verses are talking about you taking your personal glory in Christ; not about glorying someone else in Christ.

But, as I said earlier, one can always split hairs fine enough to justify whatever they want to do. Including finding a way to glory other people and claim it is done 'in Christ'.

[GourmetDan]

"It's also possible that words actually mean things and that it's the better part of discretion to simply accept what your brothers in Christ tell you is true concerning their actions rather than your own erroneous judgment."

Well, that would equally apply to you; as you surely must be able to see.

If you won't take your own advice, why should I?

[Campion]

If I saw people kneeling before that tomb, and praying to Lincoln for a healing, and believing that touching the tomb of Lincoln could precipitate some miracle, then I would dare to say that they would be dishonoring God.

You don't need to see that to know that they're dishonoring God already; you can judge yourself from the evidence of that massive tomb and the idolatrous reverence paid to the idol in front of it. Face it, any honor paid to a dead rotting corpse is "ancestor worship," and is honor that should have been given to God.

[BlackElk]

Actually, your argument is with Paul and with Jesus Christ. I have the Catholic Faith founded by Jesus Christ and guaranteed by Him to the end. You reject that Faith and His promises.

The problem for the "reformed" types is that all the good relics and saints seemed to have been taken before Luther decided that he just HAD to massacre his vows.

Want to venture a guess as to why the RCC has the remains of Sts. Peter and Paul????

[BlackElk]

Good to see you back!

[GourmetDan]

Oh, I think we have a responsibility to point out error when we see it.

2 Timothy 4:2, "Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction."

[Colofornian]

But I think it's strange that you would think a newspaper ad that says "thank you" somehow tends toward idolatry.

Last time I checked my Bible, "glorify" applied solely to God as the recipient (except for a few cases where it is used as God's prerogative--where HE could glorify someone).

Those newspapers ads glorify some saint, converting those unwilling dead saints into glory thieves.

Twice in the Book of Isaiah, God emphasizes that he shares his glory w/no one.

Paul, the subject of this thread, several times wrote that we should "glorify God in all we do." [And the saints don't qualify as sub-headings of divinity]

[BlackElk]

You guys have at it for a while. I'll be baaaaaack!

[Antoninus]

Well, that would equally apply to you; as you surely must be able to see.

Uh, no. I'm telling you: "Our belief is X."

You're saying: "No, your belief is Y and that's idolatry."

If you can't even have the common courtesy to accept what the Catholic Church tells you about its own beliefs without twisting it into some Jack Chick cliche, then there's no point in even talking to you.

[GourmetDan]

"GourmetDan:

When Catholics need your idiosyncratic views of Scripture to inform us as to Catholicism or less complete forms of Christianity, we will be sure to let you be the first to know."

I wasn't talking to Catholics.

I was talking to those who have an ear to hear.