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There are passages of scripture that include lists of family words. These words in lists demonstrate that there are words that can be used for "brother" or "cousin." This author says that Mary and Joseph had other children. Some claim that these "brothers" were actually "cousins." These verses below include BOTH the words for brothers and cousins. They draw a distinction between "brother and cousin" and demonstrate that a distinction in words is possible. The word "suggenes" is translated "kindred, kinfolk, cousin." The word adelphoi is translated "brother."

In short, it is likely that Mary & Joseph had other children.

Lu 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin (SUGGENES) Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

Luke 14:12 And he said also to him who did call him, `When thou mayest make a dinner or a supper, be not calling thy friends, nor thy brethren, nor thy kindred, nor rich neighbours, lest they may also call thee again, and a recompense may come to thee; These lists demonstrate that words are being distinguished from one another. There is a distinction between a man's brothers and his "kindred, blood relatives, kinfolk, cousins." IN SHORT, the Protestant position MUST be admitted to be entirely tenable, and those who reject fellowship based on this difference are being difficult with other Christians."

Lu 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

Mr 6:4 But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin (SUGGENES), and in his own house. Note the distinction Jesus draws between "kin (SUGGENES" and "own household." They knew the difference between cousins and brothers.

Mt 13:55 - Is this not the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas?

Mt 12:46 - While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him.

Mt 12:49 - And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, "Here are My mother and My brothers! This is a very interesting passage in that Jesus intentionally distinguishes between these "fellowship brothers" and the "brothers associated with Mary."

Mr 6:3 - Is this not the carpenter, the Son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are not His sisters here with us?" And they were offended at Him.

1 posted on 12/11/2006 6:29:19 AM PST by xzins
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Ping


2 posted on 12/11/2006 6:30:29 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins
Joseph and Mary had children after Jesus was born: James, Joses, Simon, and others.

Better put on that flame-proof suit!

3 posted on 12/11/2006 6:37:47 AM PST by Enosh
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To: xzins
I think John Everett Millais (of the Pre-Raphaelite brotherhood) had a good interpretation.
5 posted on 12/11/2006 6:43:51 AM PST by linda_22003
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To: xzins
He do know that Joseph and Mary had children after Jesus was born: James, Joses, Simon, and others.

Where do we KNOW this from?

8 posted on 12/11/2006 6:46:20 AM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: xzins
You know, I've often wondered about that. As a baptist-by-birth, I just figured matter-of-factly that Jesus had siblings because it SAYS so. The fact that a distinction is made b/tw extended family and household (immediate family) was a bygone conclusion to me.

I married into a Catholic family who looked at me as though I were crazy for saying, point blank, that James was the half-brother of Jesus (as in, son of Joseph and not God). It got brought up because they kept making reference to "Mary, the ever-virgin". I had asked why they called her that b/c of her having other children. Man, that was uncomfortable.

14 posted on 12/11/2006 7:04:16 AM PST by EarthBound (Ex Deo, gratia. Ex astris, scientia)
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To: xzins
Matthew 1: 24 Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, 25 and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. F5 And he called His name Jesus.
15 posted on 12/11/2006 7:10:35 AM PST by DaveMSmith ("Heaven is the only basis for our continued existence".)
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To: xzins
"After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends."

I was reading on another thread how Mary was supposedly completely devoted to Jesus and that is supposed evidence that she was unique among all human beings. But here we have Mary and Joseph both unaware that their son was not even with them when they left Jerusalem and not discovering that fact for at least 24 hours.

The implication here is that Mary was so busy with other duties, i.e., tending to her younger children, that she didn't even notice that her oldest son was not among the company.

Now in todays society, both Mary and Joseph would have been charged with child neglect and Jesus would have ended up in a foster home pending a complete investigation by child protective services.

Funny that this is the only mention in the Bible of the pre-ministry relationship between Mary and Jesus.

18 posted on 12/11/2006 7:12:48 AM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: xzins; Kolokotronis

One should ponder greek before making such assertions.

As I understand it Greek (as is the case in Russian which I speak) has a longer version of the word for brother or sister when reffering to cousins. For this reason I thought my wife (then fiance) had several brothers and sisters when in fact she has only one brother, and several cousins; however they commonly shorten this to simply brother or sister.


23 posted on 12/11/2006 7:19:01 AM PST by kawaii
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To: xzins

The myth of Mary's perpetual virginity comes from the Gnostic apocryphal literature of the early church [the Gospel of Peter, and the Protevangelium of James] --- books that the RCC magisterium insists from time to time that it does not consider authoritative, except, of course, when it finds some immaculate concoction therein to challenge the facts of the Scriptures.


25 posted on 12/11/2006 7:28:14 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: xzins
I believe he went in the aspirin business.


26 posted on 12/11/2006 7:28:17 AM PST by PBRSTREETGANG
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To: xzins

So what happened to the biological brothers of Christ? Are there still relatives living today, people who are genetically related to the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity?


29 posted on 12/11/2006 7:34:12 AM PST by mockingbyrd (Good heavens! What women these Christians have-----Libanus)
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To: xzins
Still no scripture passage that calls anyone other than Jesus a son or daughter of Mary.

Mary cannot have had any other children. They would have to have been younger than Jesus, and for Jesus to give Mary to John at Calvary would have been sinning, by permitting his younger siblings to avoid the commandment "Honor thy father and thy mother".

And to claim that the error that Mary had other children is "the Protestant position" dumps Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli out of the Protestant fold, because none of them agreed with it, as their writings clearly attest.

35 posted on 12/11/2006 7:50:38 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: xzins
As a Southern Baptist, I have often wondered why would Joseph stick around if it happened the way the Catholics and others thought.

I mean, here you are, newly married, and you can't consummate with your wife. I don't see him being a strong force in the Lord's life as a youth if you cannot show your love to your wife, even as a stepfather to a stepson.

I mean no flaming to anyone, just a point that was on my mind.
43 posted on 12/11/2006 7:59:27 AM PST by Sybeck1 (Southaven Mississippi Freeper)
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To: xzins
"In short, it is likely that Mary & Joseph had other children."

Why some "Christians" go to such great lengths to prove that Our Lord's mother was not a perpetual virgin baffles me. Having studied all your listed verses, and more, I can say with absolute certainty that there is no N/T verse whatsoever that establishes that Jesus Christ had blood brothers or sisters. The Old Testament is rife with examples of people calling their uncles, cousins and followers "brothers". And never once does the N/T say "these are Mary's sons/daughters". Other O/T examples have only-child sons being called "first born", (because "first born" was actually the title bestowed on the child who opened the womb of his mother, whether or not he had siblings afterwards.

I have been in this debate many times with Protestants, and have never lost, having been able to answer each and every heretical example more than adequately. But this time around I'm going to pass, letting you prots make your charges against the Mother of God as you may. Though how anyone can possibly think such allegations against Christ's mother are pleasing to Him escapes me. I will, however, part with an Old Testament verse which prefigures the Virgin Mary:
" Then the man brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, the one facing east, and it was shut. The LORD said to me, "This gate is to remain shut. It must not be opened; no one may enter through it. It is to remain shut because the LORD, the God of Israel, has entered through it."" (Ezekiel 44:1-2).

48 posted on 12/11/2006 8:16:52 AM PST by TheCrusader
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To: xzins
The gospels are without notation of any childhood events

There are still plenty of childhood stories. That they didn't make it into the canon should not be surprising.

77 posted on 12/11/2006 9:37:05 AM PST by RightWhale (RTRA DLQS GSCW)
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To: xzins
I cannot figure out why you would ever post a thread that would put the patron of fathers in a bad light (as far as most Christians believe.)

The Heart of a Father [St. Joseph]

97 posted on 12/11/2006 10:00:45 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: xzins; blue-duncan; Buggman; Revelation 911; P-Marlowe
What happened to Joseph the father of Jesus

Well, at my church, he just got the lead in a production of Footloose...

199 posted on 12/11/2006 11:57:03 AM PST by Corin Stormhands (http://wardsmythe.com)
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To: xzins

Protestants hate St. Joseph even more than they hate St. Mary.


321 posted on 12/11/2006 2:00:07 PM PST by ichabod1 (After the attacks of 9/11, profiling Muslims is more like profiling the Klan.)
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To: xzins

bumpforlater


434 posted on 12/11/2006 8:25:24 PM PST by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: xzins

It is important to note that even Kings of Israel had to have an occupation. Jesus, son of Joseph and Mary, both of the line of David, was a Prince of the House of Israel, heir to Throne of Israel and Crucified as King of the Jews.

His occupation as carpenter also has several meanings, not just being one who makes wagons or houses, but encompasses one who has been taught the higher mathematics such as geometry and who would, with such knowledge, have been considered a sage or Wise Man.


457 posted on 12/11/2006 10:10:38 PM PST by Prost1 (Fair and Unbiased as always!)
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