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To: Nihil Obstat
She said to pray for the conversion of Russia. Conversion means to turn to God, not to become Catholic. Catholics need conversion too.

Well, I'm sure that is a surprise to most Catholics. But there weren't many in Russia, were there? There were a lot of Russian Orthodox, especially in 1917. So what would the conversion mean? Convert from what to what? Was that a conversion from Russian Orthodox to Roman Catholic? or did all those Russian Orthodox need conversion to God as well? There is quite a lot of confusion here.

None of the faithful Catholics are told about this vision until 1941 when Lucia becomes a nun.

You are mis-informed. Lucia became a nun long before 1941, people in the hierarchy were informed of the visions long before 1941.

Who is doing the misinforming here? If the hierarchy knew about it before 1941, and if rosaries were needed for that "conversion" to take place, why did the hierarchy keep it a secret until 1942? Didn't they want all of those rosaries to be said before 1942? Didn't they want Russia to be converted before 1942?

Catholics in Portugal knew about the visions in 1917. 70,000 of them were there to winess it, including socialist newspaper reporters who took pictures.

But did they report about those messages, or that there were any messages at all. Did Lucia and her siblings at that time report anything about a message? Why not? Nothing for 24 years -----

Also, Mary said to pray that Russia "not spread her errors to the rest of the world". That error is atheistic Communism.

But once again, how can people pray for Russia not to spread her errors if none of the faithful Catholics are told to pray for that until 1942? The time to have prayed was in the 1920's and 1930's when it could have been stopped before millions of those needing conversion are slaughtered and killed in the gulags. Where was the message then?

Instead the message is released in 1942 when Russia is then an ally of the United States, when the German Wehrmacht is under the Russian guns in Leningrad, and Germany's illustrious crusade to conquer Russia is in need of divine intervention of those prayers and rosaries for Russia to finally get religion. The timing is so suspicious. You do understand.

as for this article, dear Sister Lucia said in 2000 that the secrets were properly revealed

Well, knowing that she will be facing an uncertain duration in that Catholic purgatory, with her release from such dependent upon all those masses, rosaries, and petitions from the RCC hierarchy, would you expect her to say anything different?

29 posted on 12/16/2006 7:54:36 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Uncle Chip
So what would the conversion mean? Convert from what to what? ...or did all those Russian Orthodox need conversion to God as well?

Conversion means turning towards God. If you did not know, Russia was at the brink of the atheistic communistic revolution throughout 1917. Look up the "February Revolution" and Lenin's "April Theses". You will see that Russia certainly needed a turning towards God.

None of the faithful Catholics are told about this vision until 1941 when Lucia becomes a nun.

Lucia became a nun in 1928, not 1941. She wrote the secrets in 1933, following a vision she had of Jesus in 1931. She was told to give the message to the Pope, not the general public.

Didn't they want all of those rosaries to be said before 1942? Didn't they want Russia to be converted before 1942?

The pope in 1917 had already called for the rosary to be prayed for peace and for an end to the war. Praying the rosary for peace and conversion was no secret at all; the rosary had been prayed for that purpose for over 600 years.

The "secret" was that the pope should consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Mary said that if Russia was not consecrated to her heart, "Russia will spread its errors around the world".

Up until the '80's, Communism WAS spreading all over the world. Pope John Paul II made the consecration in 1984. Soon after, Communism in Europe collapsed without a shot being fired. That's pretty miraculous in my opinion. (some here may question whether or not the consecration was valid, but Sister Lucia said it was acceptable, and that is good enough for me.)

would you expect her to say anything different?

I expect her to faithfully and humbly serve the Truth, Christ Jesus, as she always did.

32 posted on 12/16/2006 11:14:18 AM PST by Nihil Obstat (viva il papa)
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To: Uncle Chip
But once again, how can people pray for Russia not to spread her errors if none of the faithful Catholics are told to pray for that until 1942? The time to have prayed was in the 1920's and 1930's when it could have been stopped before millions of those needing conversion are slaughtered and killed in the gulags. Where was the message then??

The impassioned desire to shoe-horn a goddess into the Christian pantheon is, I regret to say, the primary obstacle to Christian unity between protestants and catholics. The lust to elevate a mortal human woman to near-parity with Deity is an ongoing rock of offense, a scandal, a stumbling block to Biblical Christians.

In the cult of the BVM, we encounter one who has most of the attributes of deity: she hears prayers, provides an alternate means of salvation, grants visions and mystical experiences, and is the fount of new revelations. And, something in fallen human nature prefers a goddess to the God of the Bible.

33 posted on 12/16/2006 11:18:01 AM PST by TomSmedley (Calvinist, optimist, home schooling dad, exuberant husband, technical writer)
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