He Was an Evangelical Christian Until He Read Aquinas

National Catholic Register ^ | December 24, 2006 | TOM WEHNER

[netmilsmom]

We love Donut Man! We have two of his VHS tapes.

It's funny because some of my traditional Catholic friends had a problem with his programs being shown on EWTN on Saturday mornings during Faith Factory. Not Catholic enough.

God works in mysterious ways.

[netmilsmom]

Anyone take a good look at his "new" website.
Check out these songs!

'"Celebrating the Celebration: The Donut Man Sings About the Sacraments"

Songs to Sing-Along With the Liturgical Calendar

(Requires Real Audio - click here to download)

Mary, Mother of God: Gentle Mary, Humble Mary

Presentation of Christ: Jesus Was A Child

Lent: This is My Command

Holy Week: Jesus Showed Us God's Love

Easter: Run, Peter Run

Pentecost: They Had to Wait

All Saints: Tell Me John

St. Paul: My Name is Paul

Christmas: The Best Present of All

Christmas: Happy Birthday, Jesus

Songs That Elaborate Upon the Sacraments

Baptism: When I Take A Bath

Baptism: God is Three in One

Eucharist: This Is My Body

Communion / (Sharing): One Basket

Confirmation: A New Creation! (II Cor. 5:17)

Confirmation: Making the Choice: The Two Houses

Holy Orders: The Centurion

Holy Vows: Love Each Other

Confession: If We Confess

Confession/Obedience: O-B-E-Y

Confession: God Knows About Everything

Prayer for the Sick / Annointing: Jesus Heals the Paralytic (Hole in My Roof)

Healing our Soul / Lifting our Burden: HiYa, HiYa"

[70times7]

Many of those were done prior to his becomming Catholic.

[netmilsmom]

>>Many of those were done prior to his becomming Catholic.<<

Well, some of those titles are pretty Catholic.
I can't play them on my computer but I love the titles.

[mockingbyrd]

That would be National Catholic Reporter NOT National Catholic Register. Easy to get the two confused, usually NCR stands for the Reporter, which is an atrocious publication.

[mockingbyrd]

Aquinas is da bomb, and that's all there is to it.

[Ottofire]

--I am convinced that as more Evangelicals understand the Christ-centeredness of Mary, more and more Evangelicals will join the Catholic Church.

But the evangelicals want Christ, not Mary as the only center of 'veneration'. I only pray to God, I will never kneel before a statue of my good friend Steve to ask him to pray for me. If Steve is considered more than just a good friend, indeed, giving him some stake in my salvation, that is false, and that is putting him at some level equal to Christ. Indeed ALL men, except Christ alone are fallen, as was Mary.

Luke, when writing all the truth that he could find in his Gospel to Theophilus did not mention that Mary's pain at the foot of the Cross was somehow redemptive. Nor did he mention that she was born immaculately. Nor did he make much mention of this special status that she is now held by the RCC, and perhaps held that way since way early in the church. Yes, she is known to be blessed beyond all other women for being the mother of Jesus, but nothing else. Read the first chapter of Luke especially, and then the rest.


Luke 1: 3it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus; 4so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught.

Now according to the RCC this infallible Gospel must be truth. If that is what it is, then according to what Luke himself wrote this Gospel is all that Luke could find about the life and teachings of Christ, and it should be all that one needs for salvation. Does this Gospel teach all that the RCC stands for? The Protestants say not.

And that is why the RCC is considered heretical by the Protestants, and no matter how you make Mary the selling point, at least this Reformed believer will never think to fall to the RCC's heresy.

Yes, there are some that cross the Tiber, as they say. But many in the past fell for the various heresies. Does this mean those old moldy heresies are right? No. Just means people really do not change, and those that are not strong in the Scripture fall for such. When dust gathers on the Word, heresy gathers on the Church.

[NYer]

Aquinas is da bomb, and that's all there is to it.

If you liked Aquinas, then you will love his Eastern counterpart, St. Ephrem the Syrian.

Saint Ephrem the Syrian Library

THE PRAYER OF SAINT EPHREM THE SYRIAN

O Lord and Master of my life,
take from me the spirit of sloth, despondency,
lust of power, and idle talk;

But grant rather
the spirit of chastity, humility, patience, and love
to thy servant.

Yea, O Lord and King,
grant me to see my own transgressions,
and not to judge my brother;
for blessed art Thou unto the ages of ages.

Amen.

[mockingbyrd]

--I am convinced that as more Evangelicals understand the Christ-centeredness of Mary, more and more Evangelicals will join the Catholic Church. But the evangelicals want Christ, not Mary as the only center of 'veneration'.

It appears to me that you are misreading the post you were responding to. The honor that Catholics give to Mary is centered on Christ, it is just one of the many ways that we honor Christ. There is no way that you can read the post you exerpted and take away that Mary is the center of Catholic veneration. Christ is, so you are in agreement with Catholics. Your beef is with the way is which the honor for Christ is exemplified by Catholics respect for His mother. I know that you have heard this all before, so I will not get into it with you again. I do know that if we seek Christ with all our hearts and honor Him as we know best, He will not abandon us. Rather, He will draw us closer to Him.

[adiaireton8]

Now according to the RCC this infallible Gospel must be truth. If that is what it is, then according to what Luke himself wrote this Gospel is all that Luke could find about the life and teachings of Christ,

That is a very unsafe assumption, especially given John 20:30; 21:25.

and it should be all that one needs for salvation.

Another "Protestant" and unscriptural assumption imposed upon Scripture.

It all comes down to these basic working assumptions that lie behind and beneath the Scripture itself.

-A8

[Frank Sheed]

The Angelic Doctor Bumpus ad Summus!

[fishtank]

http://how2fish.blogspot.com/2006/09/donut-man-should-make-us-think.html

Howard Fisher said...
Tiber,

1) Thanks for the list of names. I already hinted at in my original post that they mean nothing. Should I reproduce a list of names in reverse? Would that prove anything?

2) "You can ask me how I have peace with God if you want."

The one thing I asked for, you didn't provide. You simply do not have peace with God. Although I am sure you think so. It is however, not a biblical peace. Without the Imputation of Christ's righteousness, Paul plainly teaches you have no peace.

3) "I suspect he thought about this a bit before converting..."

I am sure he did. I have found men convert for all kinds of reasons. Then they often respond to Protestant doctrines like Sola Scriptura as being unbiblical. Yet their desription of those doctrines are never correct. So they leave not knowing with accuracy what they are rejecting.

4) Anonymous wants to be obedient. Yet I must ask. Is this interpretation of John 6 his private interpretation? Rome has never taught John 6 to say what he says it says.

Perhaps I need to start another sacrament. I will get a door with a doorknob and a dead bolt. Then I will get a priest to bless the door so that it actually becomes the Door of Christ. Then I will walk through it. Since Jesus claims to be a door, wouldn't that work too?

John 6 is one of my favorite passages. It strikes me that you will interpret that portion of that passage in such a fashion and also ignore the exegesis provided by Reformed Protestants.

What in essence you have done is accept the final authority of Rome's dogmatics as the governing interpretive lense. You simply are not allowed the text of god's Word to speak. In other words, you must by definition force Rome's teachings into Scripture.

5) I must ask you both if you were truly Protestants. Did you believe in penal substitutionary atonement? Do you still do so? If so, you are in rebellion against Rome's teaching.

Perhaps my original question should be asked. Who is the Blessed man of Romans 4? Do you have peace with God? On what basis do you claim to have this peace?

[lastchance]

Alex I think you are confusing the Register with National Catholic Reporter. Which is liberal, biased and unreliable.

[Campion]

But the evangelicals want Christ, not Mary as the only center of 'veneration'

If you're only venerating Christ, you aren't giving him the worship of latria to which he is entitled as God incarnate.

Now according to the RCC this infallible Gospel must be truth. If that is what it is, then according to what Luke himself wrote this Gospel is all that Luke could find about the life and teachings of Christ, and it should be all that one needs for salvation.

??? You also believe that Luke's Gospel is truth, do you not? So do you believe that the Gospel of Luke is "all that one needs for salvation"? "Luke alone"?

Luke didn't say it contained all truth, or all truth concerning Mary, or all truth needed for salvation. He said he diligently gathered it together that Theophilus might know the exact truth concerning that which he had been taught. That's all.

But many in the past fell for the various heresies.

We call them "Protestants".

Does this mean those old moldy heresies are right? No. Just means people really do not change, and those that are not strong in the Scripture fall for such.

There are plenty of people who are fine Scripture scholars in the Catholic church, and some of them are ex-Protestants. The Protestant conceit that nobody who knows Scripture can be a Catholic is just that: a conceit.

Now it is true that nobody who accepts one of the various Protestant theological systems as truth can be a Catholic, but to equate any Protestant theological system with "knowledge of Scripture" per se is precisely to beg the question.

[Campion]

Then they often respond to Protestant doctrines like Sola Scriptura as being unbiblical. Yet their desription of those doctrines are never correct.

Sola scriptura must be as elusive as mercury, given that there are plenty of very fine Catholics who are former conservative Protestants of various kinds, some of whom are former Protestant clergymen with legitimate seminary training ... and you want us to believe that none of these folks ever really understood what sola scriptura was, though they professed it and preached it for years?

[Ottofire]

---Now according to the RCC this infallible Gospel must be truth. If that is what it is, then according to what Luke himself wrote this Gospel is all that Luke could find about the life and teachings of Christ,
--That is a very unsafe assumption, especially given John 20:30; 21:25.

I was not looking at John. I was saying that Luke himself says that he painstakingly researched his Gospel and put everything in it he could find credible so that he could show Theophilus the exact truth. Anything outside that exact truth would be what?

Indeed John mentions that much was not revealed in his Gospel. What is it? A mystery. But would we presume that whatever it is Luke would be aware of it, as he would most likely have a few of the original Apostles to use as reference?

And if Mary is to be used as a go-between for us to God, why is it not mentioned anywhere in the Gospels or Epistles?

--Another "Protestant" and unscriptural assumption imposed upon Scripture.
--It all comes down to these basic working assumptions that lie behind and beneath the Scripture itself.

So the scripture does not describe all that is required for salvation? Is this where the RCC gnosticism comes in, you must have the knowledge that only the Magisterium can provide? Ware the Scriptures! It can lead the unenlightened into heresy, for you must have the proper gnosis to fully understand! I say Ware the church that demands the scriptures be guarded against! For many other cults lurk out there that make the same claim, and the Mormons do not need the company...

[Ottofire]

--There are plenty of people who are fine Scripture scholars in the Catholic church, and some of them are ex-Protestants. The Protestant conceit that nobody who knows Scripture can be a Catholic is just that: a conceit.

Conceit? I want you to answer the question of Luke 1. If you cannot, please speak not to me of conceit. I do not claim to have the only true church, the only true interpretation of scripture, the infallible leader and teacher for all Christianity; that is the RCC that does that.

The same RCC that allows the enemy to continue to kill our unborn, much as Herod and Pharoah did. Has the Pope excommunicated the pro-abortion Catholics yet? I keep hearing that it is coming, but I fear the Pope knows that they will just run to some liberal protestant heresy rather than listen to his authority. And this is the true church of Jesus? I shudder at the claim!