Posted on 12/28/2006 7:03:50 AM PST by TaxachusettsMan
Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. If, for example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.
(whisper) stop.....please stop....oh please don't do that.....please?....oh you already did so? Darn, guess you didn't hear me. (grins)
Why do I believe Papa Benedict isn't going to lose much sleep after Saddam dances at the end of his rope?
"Please tell him Ve vant to send a message to an old 'friend' of mine. Give Herr Hitler mein WARMEST regards, Herr Sad-damn!"
The Church would have been opposed to the execution of the other tyrant Hitler?
Also bear in mind that two teenage highwaymen were hanged (for mere armed robbery of a coach and no more) from the rafters until dead at the coronation banquet of Pope Sixtus V, one of the most remarkable (in a positive sense) of all the popes, that Catholic doctrine is not a trend of the week matter and that we may be allowed to make history but that we are not allowed to REmake history. What is right and what is wrong is not dictated by the calendar.
It just may be that John Paul the Great of happy memory had seen more than enough slaughter in his lifetime in mid-century Central and Eastern Europe and was nudging policy. We can always count on the ever anti-American Cardinal Martino to chime in against the interests of the USA and of Western Civilization. This story is being spun by him and b those elements of the press/media who are attributing Martino's words as though they were Benedict XVI's words.
The purposes of executing Saddam Hussein include justice, retribution, prevention of further crimes by Saddam and discouragement of would-be Saddams.
With all due respect, I do not believe that there are any liberals (as we understand them) present at the Vatican. And I certainly do not think Cindy Sheehan can be compared to any Vatican Cleric. Cindy has willfully become a peice of guttershit and opposes all things done by America. Cardinal Martino is a servant to Jesus Christ's emmissary on earth and therefore cannot and should not be jubilant about the death penalty. Christ spoke against it, the Pope and all who serve him must speak against it. It's that simple.
The fact that the Vatican stated their opposition to the execution of Saddam Hussein is actually comforting to me. (Hear me out) In my opinion it reaffirms the fact that they are truly Jesus Christ's representation here on Earth.
I think every Christian and Catholic (like myself) can agree that there is nobody, no matter how evil, that Jesus would have enthusiastically wanted to personally kill. Not even Hitler or bin Laden. HOWEVER, no man on this earth is Jesus because we are all sinners. Therefore, we understand that faith in Christ is necessary in order to still enter Paradise when we die. With that said, as mortal men WE ARE NOT EXPECTED to be perfect or Christ-like in any way. The Vatican, including the blessed Pope, certainly does not expect us to forgive Saddam and set him free. YET, as Christ's emmissary, they still have to remind us that the death penalty is not what He would gleefully choose (or in this case, just "tragic").
As somebody already pointed out, to applaud the hanging would have been to go against their holy doctrine. And remember: they also didn't condemn us at all or demand that the he be released either!
Please do not use potty language - or references to potty language - on the Religion Forum.
Just got carried away. My apologies!
As while I suggested the Cardinal might do well on Cindy's road show; I really was not comparing the two; save in what appears to me as a non-sensical; and really non-spiritual - bend of reason. A pre-disposition of Libs; in any event. . .
I also, do not remember what my Baltimore Catechism said about 'capital punishment'. But do know that there is no pre-requisite for the feeling of 'glee' or any emotion, remotely similar that accompanies this dictum/punishment. Should they appear, hand-in-hand; it is only by choice of the observer. And it does not change the Justice of the act itself.
(i.e.. . .while the act' itself can be a 'Just act'. . .should one feel glee . . .or any inappropriate response to death; perhaps; a 'error of sin' might occur here; as it diminishes - and so takes out of balance - so to speak the person who experiences such).
AS well, there is no 'embedded gleeful component' in the agreement that Justice was done by implementing CP. . .so if one approves of Saddam's Justice; it does not by any requirement, demand glee' or by necessity, bring glee into that person's heart.
(Stuck on the 'glee' aspect as you reference that as seemingly part of your equasion as it stands against CP. . .or at least by 'our' imperfect vs the Pope's,more perfect. .. if not, perfect rationale)
Meantime, not glee; but relief, for sure. . .appreciation. . .for not having to live with the threats he posed while alive and the dread of possibilities extended by his presence carried, while he still had breath. And more relief and appreciation for the bravery; the courage it took for all those 'athoritively' involved to carry out this task; and a final determination that most importantly can only give some meaning to the lives lost; and to those who survived.
. . .and it brings closure to those still suffering; that a still-breathing Saddam, cannot. Nothing less than Saddam's life Is fair and Just; and only because he cannot give more; at least 'here'; and another reason for 'post haste' sending him on to an even higher, more meaningful Judgment. It is the best case scenario for a retribution.
(We have only to remember, as well. . .that in reality; there is no 'death'. . .we do not assume the extinction of Saddam; we only move him; and by our best 'Authority' in 'lighter form' to another disposition of Judgment.)
And yes, we are all diminished by inappropriate responses to death. . .'gleefully' killing a fly is a personal diminishment; but often a necessary task; but even that, should be done with appropriate mindful demeanor; so to speak.
We know 'kosher'. . .somewhat and perhaps. . .We know that in truth, a 'kill' is a 'sacred' act; and why it is thus 'authorized'. ..licensed. . .etc. by a higher and appropriately moral authority. . .and we know what the BC says about 'authority'; it comes from God. . .and so we honor the transmission and those that hold the power; for whatever level they provide. (If I did what a 'butcher' did; or the 'meatpacker'. . .or whatever. . .it would be criminal; and should be. . .) This assignment of authority, keeps gives order to our world.
Also, what Good in the world can be accomplished without our 'doing it'. . .performing the acts of good; that make for a better world. Good IS. ..and God needs hands to make it happen, most often anyway. . .in our world. As in our response to Evil . . .God needs hands as well.
Believe in the 'hair-splitting' differences of the interpretation of the sixth commandment. . .that kill; actually reads closer to 'murder'. . .(how far a separation between heaven and hell?) Perhaps even this word for murder, a word that first implies 'unlawful' taking of life; as in without 'moral Authority' has a meaning that implies a life taken perhaps wantonly -- without 'reason' - (could stretch this to even 'gleeful' maybe; per the occasion). . .a huge difference to me; between the two. . .the 'moral authoritative' acting on behalf of a society and for the 'greater good' vs the 'self-directed'; self-inflicted sin of murder. (various degrees, notwithstanding, of course.)
We are commanded to 'love our neighbor 'as ourselves'. . .(not more; not less; but 'as'. . .) We are advised to 'do unto others' as we would have them do unto us'; again, the balance. . .We are asked not to do more OR less. . .but as we would do for ourselves. The crucifixion. . .atonement. . .bringing the world into the balance of an 'at one' moment. . .
So much wisdom here; but the balance means something; as do our 'scales of Justice' give meaning by their representing an 'Ideal'. . .just as 'heaven and hell' offer meaning in the next life. . .without at least the attempts for balance; or even the promise. . .there is no Justice. . .no rise to 'fairness'. . . 'reasonableness'. . .and therefore no 'meaning'.
Saddam's removal should not give glee; but it surely gives meaning to 'life as we know it'. . .When the 'crime' is against 'humanity'. . .there is no way to balance that scale; save by 'authoritive' ordering', the perp; to give up his life; and move to the next level of Justice. Because whether here or 'there'. . .a Justice delayed. . .is a Justice, denied.
And with that, we can choose whether we want to wish Saddam God Speed or not. (Perhaps it is alluded to in the final Court order (?))
That said and all, IMHO, of course.
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