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Answers in Genesis revenue declines by 50% in 2005
http://lippard.blogspot.com/2006/12/answers-in-genesis-revenue-declines-by.html ^

Posted on 12/30/2006 7:58:37 AM PST by truthfinder9

I noticed the miltant YECs over at AIG have stepped up their unchristian attacks on other Christians. I wonder if their drop in funding has anything to do with it. Or maybe their methods and actions are finally catching up to them.

And read Poor Ken Ham:

Isn't it illegal for members of a nonprofit to financially benefit from the donations of their supporters? Seems like Ken Ham was living high off the hog.

I realize this will make all of you militant YECs angry and red in the face, but really, when are Christians going to stop sending money to groups that so obviously misuse it?


TOPICS: Apologetics; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: aig; creationism; kenham; youngearth

1 posted on 12/30/2006 7:58:39 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: truthfinder9

Are you claiming to be a Christian yourself?


2 posted on 12/30/2006 8:01:26 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: truthfinder9
Friend, I find your post disturbing on several levels. I am both an old-earth creationist and an ardent supporter of Reasons to Believe.

Some of my concerns are:

The tone of your post is most ungracious. You are gloating, enjoying other Christians' pain, and by your post encouraging others to join you. Hatchet jobs on fellow believers are contrary to Scripture.

There is nothing out-of-line about a $120,000 annual salary for a ministry head (e.g., Hugh Ross earns more).

There are better ways to make your underlying point, one with which I agree, by the way. Don't resort to the same methods you find so distasteful when AiG uses them.

3 posted on 12/30/2006 8:10:39 AM PST by Hebrews 11:6 (Do you REALLY believe that (1) God is, and (2) God is good?)
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To: Hebrews 11:6

No, I'm not gloating or enjoying anyone's pain.

I simply stated some facts:

AIG's attacks on other Christians
AIG's financial carelessness
etc

AIG has made a habit of refusing to be accountable to anyone. Their reduction in money has simply highlighted their internal problems.

And no one mentioned RTB or Hugh Ross, but they're known for very strict financial accountability (and $120,000 has a very different value in California than in Kentucky).


4 posted on 12/30/2006 8:22:33 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: truthfinder9
You stated facts in a way that can only be perceived as an ungracious, unloving, and hateful attack--indeed, the first responder questioned your Christianity solely on the basis of your post. You are so busy now defending yourself from me that you are unable to hear what the Holy Spirit might be saying through me.

Be quiet, and listen to Him.

5 posted on 12/30/2006 8:33:16 AM PST by Hebrews 11:6 (Do you REALLY believe that (1) God is, and (2) God is good?)
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To: truthfinder9
Isn't it illegal for members of a nonprofit to financially benefit from the donations of their supporters?

Of course not, unless they are embezzling. In that case, it doesn't matter whether the employer is a nonprofit organization, a private business, or a government entity. Theft is theft.

If the supporters of a nonprofit organization believe that its employees are overcompensated, then they may become ex-supporters, and direct their donations elsewhere.

And what's it to you how other people distribute their financial support, anyway?

6 posted on 12/30/2006 8:42:56 AM PST by Tax-chick ("Everything is either willed or permitted by God, and nothing can hurt me." Bl. Charles de Foucauld)
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To: Hebrews 11:6
No, you perceived it as "hateful" which doesn't make it hateful. How are facts hateful? They aren't. But the unwillingness for Christians to address them, because they don't want to offend people, is why this problem exists. I'm not defending anything, I don't have to. Maybe you should ask why you are so offended. Who needs to "be quiet and listen" here? I'm not the one upset.
7 posted on 12/30/2006 8:43:22 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: Tax-chick
Of course not, unless they are embezzling You don't necessarily have to be embezzling. You can be using it on a lavish lifestyle, which is illegal for a nonprofit (hence the word nonprofit). No one is saying the folks at AIG are doing that, but there is a history of such things in ministries. Which answers your belligerent-worded question: "And what's it to you how other people distribute their financial support, anyway?" Christians are defrauded out of tens of millions of dollars a year. So my point is that they need to pay close attention to what happens to their money.
8 posted on 12/30/2006 8:49:39 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: truthfinder9
I'm not the one upset.

I'm not upset, and I'm not the one whose Christianity was immediately called into question by my posting.

I gave you some excellent advice. Now, I'm praying that the Holy Spirit is able to bless you and, ultimately, others through you.

9 posted on 12/30/2006 8:50:12 AM PST by Hebrews 11:6 (Do you REALLY believe that (1) God is, and (2) God is good?)
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To: Hebrews 11:6

My Christianity "was immediately called into question" by someone who didn't want to address the issue and instead attacked me. It's called an ad hominem attack. It's what people do when they can't argue a point with facts.

Now people can think with their minds or their emotions. YEC groups have thrived on emotionalism and few want to address that. People can pretend there aren't problems in Christinaity and ignore them so they don't offend anyone.

The problem is that it's not the biblical way to address problems.


10 posted on 12/30/2006 8:59:08 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: truthfinder9

This is just a hatchet job from evolutionists.

Who knows if there is any truth to it. Anyone supporting evolution is a liar so I doubt what's being posting in such a gloating manner. Such a preoccupation with money ... someone else's money, no less. Oh well.

Gloat away and hope it's true, evolutionists!


11 posted on 12/30/2006 8:59:35 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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To: truthfinder9

Your "Christianity" is legitimately questioned because of your behavior. You're too BLIND to see it or understand WHY. What a pity.


12 posted on 12/30/2006 9:00:39 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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To: nmh

That's from someone calling people liars. What a pity.


13 posted on 12/30/2006 9:03:53 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: nmh
And BTW, do you question AIG's Christianity? After all, their history of bad behavior is well-known: AIG's Negative Tactics
14 posted on 12/30/2006 9:07:21 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: truthfinder9
I didn't attack you. I asked a question because I seriously wanted an answer. If people thought my question was a statement due to their own perception of the tone of your post, then I have no control over that. It was a question and was meant to be taken as a question.

I have not witnessed any attacks by Ken Ham nor am I bothered by his salary. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I am not mad at AG.

15 posted on 12/30/2006 9:08:51 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

Ken Ham is well known for calling Christians who disagree with his view as "compromisers," "Rossites," inflammatory things like "[Ross'] uncritical acceptance of long ages logically leads to a racist conclusion."

I've read all of Ross' critques on YEC and never, never, does he write things like Ham does.


16 posted on 12/30/2006 9:12:53 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: truthfinder9
You can be using it on a lavish lifestyle, which is illegal for a nonprofit

I'd like to see a legal citation on that, please. Then I'd like to see evidence of a "lavish lifestyle" of the parties in question.

17 posted on 12/30/2006 9:16:04 AM PST by Tax-chick ("Everything is either willed or permitted by God, and nothing can hurt me." Bl. Charles de Foucauld)
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To: truthfinder9

Just sounds to me like you and Ken Ham define "facts" differently. From all I've seen and read of/from Ken Ham, his is a gentle but brave soul. Perhaps you just don't like the way he sees the facts, and vice-versa. You don't have to support his work. Surely you believe others are free to support him, salary and all.


18 posted on 12/30/2006 9:16:14 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

I hust guess I don't think name calling and emotionalism is a substitue for solid scholarship. Other people might not mind so much.


19 posted on 12/30/2006 9:26:08 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

I hust guess I don't think name calling and emotionalism is a substitue for solid scholarship. Other people might not mind so much.


20 posted on 12/30/2006 9:26:10 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

I guess I just don't think name calling and emotionalism are a substitue for solid scholarship. Other people might not mind so much


21 posted on 12/30/2006 9:27:06 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: Tax-chick

I specifically said that no one is saying the lavish lifestyle problem applied to AIG. It has been a problem with other groups. What I did say in my first post is that various AIG leaders earning over $100K each in Kentucky seems a bit much for a Christian apologetics organization. Ministries are not about getting rich.


22 posted on 12/30/2006 9:39:24 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: truthfinder9
Ministries are not about getting rich.

I agree with that, personally. However, that's a different point from claiming that the employee's salary is illegal. Were you're implying that Mr. Ham is using the financial resources of his organization, other than his salary, for personal benefit?

It seems that you don't think this organization is worthy of support. If your figures on the decline in donations are accurate, then perhaps others agree with you. It's up to each donor, whether Christian or not, to consider the most effective use of his contributions.

23 posted on 12/30/2006 9:48:06 AM PST by Tax-chick ("Everything is either willed or permitted by God, and nothing can hurt me." Bl. Charles de Foucauld)
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To: Tax-chick
Were you're implying that Mr. Ham is using the financial resources of his organization, other than his salary, for personal benefit?

For the third time, no. But any thinking person has to wonder why Ham and his staff need so much money, especially in relation to what they do and where they live. Those are the questions I am asking.

If your figures on the decline in donations are accurate

They aren't my figures. They are IRS figures posted by someone else.

It's up to each donor, whether Christian or not, to consider the most effective use of his contributions.

Exactly what I said, but I added that many Christians simply donate to Christian groups because they are Christian without paying attention to what the group does.

24 posted on 12/30/2006 9:57:54 AM PST by truthfinder9
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To: truthfinder9
many Christians simply donate to Christian groups because they are Christian without paying attention to what the group does

Source for this fact claim?

25 posted on 12/30/2006 10:06:35 AM PST by Tax-chick ("Everything is either willed or permitted by God, and nothing can hurt me." Bl. Charles de Foucauld)
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To: truthfinder9
Thanks for bringing this situation to our attention --- I'm going to send Ken Ham and Answers in Genesis a generous New Years contribution.

Are there any other Christian ministries that you would like to slander so that I can put them on my contribution list as well.?

26 posted on 12/30/2006 12:23:36 PM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Uncle Chip

I didn't slander anyone. The IRS records are public knowledge and I didn't post them, I linked to them on another site. Thanks for being so swift a reader.


27 posted on 12/30/2006 8:31:53 PM PST by truthfinder9
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To: All; truthfinder9
From the sourced website: Jim Lippard said...

Dave:

I am embarrassed at my error, and you are correct.

I was looking for technicalities such as a separation of the museum resources into a separate legal entity, but I failed to notice at the top of the report that it is only a report for the first six months of 2005 rather than a full-year report. I'm not an accountant, and I've not previously seen a six-month Form 990 (though I have seen non-calendar-year Form 990s).

I will proceed to do what creationists almost never do, and apologize for and post a correction to my error.

December 30, 2006 11:19 AM

Enjoy the piñata ...

28 posted on 12/30/2006 9:10:07 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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