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To: NYer
Your question has no bearing on this topic. But since you raised it, other church Fathers have written about Peter in Rome.

My apologies. I saw Justin Martyr's name in the title and thought this was about him and/or his writings. I was just curious as to how he explained the transubstantiation of the Eucharist there in Rome without reference to Peter, the keys, the 25 year episcopacy, the priesthood, etc.

In reading through the Scriptures, I find that the original Lord's Supper and subsequent communion gatherings of the church were more like pot lucks than what later became the Mass. The people ate supper together and then afterwards ate and drank the consecrated bread and wine. In Justin Martur's day in Rome, were they still more like pot lucks, I wonder?.

5 posted on 01/07/2007 6:44:01 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Uncle Chip

Go recheck Paul on those who take the body and blood unworthily.


7 posted on 01/07/2007 10:15:39 AM PST by AliVeritas (Even if a mother forgets the child of her womb, I will not forget you.)
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To: Uncle Chip; AliVeritas
I was just curious as to how he explained the transubstantiation of the Eucharist there in Rome without reference to Peter, the keys, the 25 year episcopacy, the priesthood,

St. Justin Martyr is one of several Church Fathers. It is difficult not to identify his testimony with an early version of the Catholic Mass, the president or presider being a priest [presbyteros being the Greek root for our English word priest] as he speaks of the Eucharist about 155 A.D.:

For we do not receive these as common bread and common drink; but just as Jesus Christ our Savior, having been made flesh by the word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have learned that the food over which thanks has been given by the prayer of the word which comes from him, [see 1 Cor 11: 23-26; Lk 22; 19] and by which are blood and flesh are nourished through a change, is the Flesh and Blood of the same incarnate Jesus.

Other Church Fathers also speak of the Eucharist. For example, St. Ignatius of Antioch may be considered an apostolic Father in the sense that he heard the Apostle John preach. About 110 A.D. he was sentenced to a martyr's death in the arena by the Emperor Trajan, who also put Pope Clement to death. On the almost 1000 mile journey to Rome from Antioch, Syria, the third largest city of the Empire, Ignatius wrote seven letters, which are his only surviving letters. They are addressed to Christian communities he presided over as bishop. He speaks of the Eucharistic mystery in mystical terms saying, "Therefore arm yourselves with gentleness, renew yourselves in faith, which is the Flesh of the Lord, and in charity, which is the Blood of Jesus Christ." His most famous passage says:

I am God’s grain, and I am being ground by the teeth of wild beasts in order that I may be found [to be] pure bread for Christ. My love has been crucified, and there is in me no fire of material love, but rather a living water, speaking in me and saying within me, ‘Come to the Father.’ I take no pleasure in corruptible food or in the delights of this life. I want the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who is the seed of David; and for drink I want his Blood which is incorruptible love.

Like St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 10: 17, he saw the Eucharistic Body of our Lord as the unifying force in the Church. He wrote the Philadelphians:

Be careful to observe [only] one Eucharist; for there is only one Flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ and one cup of union with his Blood, one altar of sacrifice, as [there is] one bishop with the presbyters and my fellow-servants the deacons.

You still have not answered my question.

9 posted on 01/07/2007 11:50:52 AM PST by NYer (Apart from the cross, there is no other ladder by which we may get to Heaven. St. Rose of Lima)
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To: Uncle Chip
the original Lord's Supper and subsequent communion gatherings of the church were more like pot lucks than what later became the Mass.

The Last Supper was a Passover meal, wasn't it? Not exactly 'bring whatever you feel like making'. More like a liturgical function with some pretty specific instructions by the Lord. (Eat the lamb.)

As to why what we have of Justin's writings don't deal with all the subjects we might be intereseted in? I guess we could speculate that not every single thing he wrote has been preserved, or he didn't feel the need to write about those subjects.

He's an interesting guy. His conversion story is interesting. And I think he's the earliest of the Church Fathers that is not a member of the clergy.

12 posted on 01/07/2007 12:09:35 PM PST by siunevada (If we learn nothing from history, what's the point of having one? - Peggy Hill)
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