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Tridentine Mass returns to San Jose Diocese
Closed Cafeteria ^ | January 14, 2007

Posted on 01/13/2007 3:43:12 PM PST by NYer

From the California Catholic Daily:
Not just a Tridentine indult Mass, but a full-fledged oratory authorized to administer all the sacraments according to the traditional Latin Rite has been established in Santa Clara.

Augustinian priest Father Pedro Ottonello will serve as chaplain at the Oratory of the Chapel of Our Mother of Perpetual Help, located at 1298 Homestead Road in Santa Clara, telephone (408) 248-4330.

San Jose Bishop Patrick McGrath not only granted Father Ottonello faculties to celebrate Mass according to the 1962 Latin Rite missal, but also granted the oratory a full canonical establishment on the Solemnity of the Epiphany, Jan. 7. This means that it will be able to administer all the sacraments according to the traditional rite.

The oratory will function under the supervision of the Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest, a worldwide foundation of priests founded in 1990 exclusively to celebrate the Mass and sacraments according to the 1962 Missale Romanum.
...
In addition to permitting the sacraments according to the traditional rite, Bishop McGrath “has granted the privilege of the sacramental registers to the Oratory, whose faithful can accordingly receive the sacraments of marriage and confirmation directly at the Oratory, and also the Rite of Christian burial,” said a Jan. 3 statement by Msgr. R. Michael Schmitz, vicar general for the Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest and its U.S. provincial superior.

Our Lady of Perpetual Help has Masses at 8, 9:30, and 11 a.m. and at 5:30 p.m. Confessions are 30 minutes before Mass.



TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: ca; mass; santaclara; tridentine

1 posted on 01/13/2007 3:43:15 PM PST by NYer
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To: Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

PARISH WEB SITE

2 posted on 01/13/2007 3:45:16 PM PST by NYer (Apart from the cross, there is no other ladder by which we may get to Heaven. St. Rose of Lima)
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To: NYer
I'm just wondering why interest in the Tridentine mass is so high, yet interest in the Sacrament of Confession/Reconciliation seems so low.

I go to Mass every week, and everyone goes up to receive Communion, but Confession is a mere two times a week, for a half-hour. I include myself in that group.

Conversion starts with the heart, not the form of the ritual.
3 posted on 01/13/2007 4:08:10 PM PST by PatrickF4
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To: PatrickF4

Yeah, but the "form of the ritual" can inspire people. You probably don't go to the church for which this is planned, but I'd bet the line is pretty long at the confessional in that church before Mass.

I don't know how old you are, but once upon a time, there were two confession times per Saturday, and about 15 minutes of Confession before every Mass. People went a lot because if they went to Mass, the opportunity was there.

Plus, you didn't have the clergy telling you that going more than once a year was excessive (which I heard in CA).


4 posted on 01/13/2007 4:13:09 PM PST by livius
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To: livius
I am too young (45) to remember the "good old days", and I can understand that the Tridentine Mass has a mystique about it that can inspire people. It also has a uniquely Catholic feeling to it, which does not happen with the "Novus Ordo", or whatever you want to call our current form. Our priests routinely remind people of the benefits, even the need for confession; it all falls on deaf ears.
5 posted on 01/13/2007 4:22:35 PM PST by PatrickF4
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To: PatrickF4

I agree with Livius. My priest, who says the old and new Mass, has confession twice on Saturdays, before 2 new Masses on Sundays, and once or twice a week besides. Right before a major holy day comes up it is not unusual for him to be in the confessional for five hours a day!

My pastor mentioned this recently because he is 83 years old and long periods in the confessional are really getting hard on him. He always says, however, that no matter how tired he gets in the confessional, the peace he feels at helping people reconcile with God always guarantee that he'll sleep like a baby.


6 posted on 01/13/2007 4:25:44 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: PatrickF4

I'm about 15 years older, so I grew up under the Old Rite and the old practices. Frequent confession was one of them.

I can still remember how shocked I was when we were told we were going to confession "too often." The clergy and Vat II created this situation, and the clergy are the ones who are going to have to tell people it's important - and then show up in the confessional more than 1/2 hour per week.

Fer Pete's sake, they can sit there for an hour and read a decent book, their breviary (do priests even do this anymore?), or pray for an hour if nobody shows up. It's not going to kill them.


7 posted on 01/13/2007 4:26:55 PM PST by livius
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To: PatrickF4

"I'm just wondering why interest in the Tridentine mass is so high, yet interest in the Sacrament of Confession/Reconciliation seems so low."

I've found that where the Tridentine Mass is offered, interest in the Sacrament of Confession is high. Interest in Confession at Novus Ordo parishes is generally low. At the church where I attend the Tridentine Mass, the lines for Confession are quite long week after week.


8 posted on 01/13/2007 4:29:51 PM PST by Cavalcabo (Sancte Michael, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.)
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To: PatrickF4
I'm just wondering why interest in the Tridentine mass is so high, yet interest in the Sacrament of Confession/Reconciliation seems so low.

From what I understand, those Catholics drawn to the Tridentine Mass, frequent confession. They are more introspective about their faults vs their faith.

I go to Mass every week, and everyone goes up to receive Communion, but Confession is a mere two times a week, for a half-hour. I include myself in that group.

In my very small Maronite Catholic parish, Confession is offered up until 30 minutes before Mass. There are no takers. Recognizing and preaching on the need for Confession, Father also offers two Reconciliation Services at Easter and Christmas. These beautiful services are accompanied by two Readings + the Gospel, a homily and an introspective reflection on our faults, prior to private confession. Again, no surprise, that those who avail themselves of these two semi-annual events, are the Catholics who adhere to tradition and who attend weekly Mass. Of late, the attendees include more Roman than Maronite Catholics.

Conversion starts with the heart, not the form of the ritual.

Agreed. Unfortunately, in today's secular society, oftentimes the heart doesn't respond until the grim reaper begins to knock at the door.

9 posted on 01/13/2007 4:46:53 PM PST by NYer (Apart from the cross, there is no other ladder by which we may get to Heaven. St. Rose of Lima)
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To: Cavalcabo
I was trying to emphasize what I have found among those I know who are in favor of reviving the Tridentine Mass in our parish, and others here in the Boston area. It seems the form is more important than the substance.
10 posted on 01/13/2007 4:48:04 PM PST by PatrickF4
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To: NYer

Just to clarify a bit, while the chaplin is Fr Ottonello, the Rector of the Oratory is Fr Michael Wiener of nearby Oakland diocese. He is a priest of the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest and carries the title of Episcopal Delegate for the Tridentine Rite for the Oakland diocese, which has the full support of Oakland bishop Vigneron for further expansion.


11 posted on 01/13/2007 4:54:15 PM PST by m4629
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To: vladimir998
the peace he feels at helping people reconcile with God always guarantee that he'll sleep like a baby.

What a wonderful thing to say! And I'm sure it works, too, and he's probably one of the few 83 yr olds who is simply out like a light when he goes to bed.

It's very hard because we have not been training up new confessors. I think there are some young men who would probably like to do this, but they have older pastors who were developed in the post-VII "we're all perfect children of God" mentality. Therefore they are not permitted to hear confessions more than 1/2 hour per week (on their rotation, which might be only once or twice a month). This doesn't give them a lot of experience or encouragement.

12 posted on 01/13/2007 4:56:58 PM PST by livius
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To: livius

I think your comments are spot on Livius. Most priests just haven't gotten the proper training and teaching about confession!


13 posted on 01/13/2007 6:13:36 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: m4629

An Episcopal Delegate? That's great. That means he actually has some stature in the diocese. That may protect him from some of the crappola that will come his way!


14 posted on 01/13/2007 6:14:39 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: PatrickF4

"Conversion starts with the heart, not the form of the ritual."

The purpose of ritual is to speak to the heart.

Where there is beauty and majesty in the ritual, the heart may be inspired. Where the ritual is trite...


15 posted on 01/13/2007 7:19:41 PM PST by dsc
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To: PatrickF4

"I was trying to emphasize what I have found among those I know who are in favor of reviving the Tridentine Mass in our parish, and others here in the Boston area. It seems the form is more important than the substance."

From my experience, those who are in favor of reviving the Traditional Latin Mass pay much more attention to the "substance" than most Novus Ordo Catholics. However, the "form" is not unimportant. The form of the Traditional Latin Mass is filled with a deep symbolism which always reinforces the substance. Sadly, this has been lost in the new Mass.

In my own case, I have obtained a deeper understanding of the "substance" in my first year of attending the Traditional Latin Mass than I did in over thirty years of attending the new Mass.


16 posted on 01/13/2007 8:10:08 PM PST by Cavalcabo (Sancte Michael, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.)
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To: Cavalcabo

Not at my parish.


17 posted on 01/13/2007 9:45:50 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer; All



[“Beloved Mother of Perpetual help; my beloved Queen. My favorite Icon”].



Thank you dear ___***NYer***___


18 posted on 01/13/2007 10:11:11 PM PST by anonymoussierra (Cordiali Saluti)
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To: Salvation; Cavalcabo
Not at my parish.

Yeah, I think it makes a difference what the emphasis is from your priests.

I go to a pretty average N.O. parish with a 35 year old pastor. He makes it clear several times a year during his homilies that he, personally, sees his confessor a minimum of once a month. He models it for everyone else and makes it clear that the sacrament is available outside of the scheduled times, if needed.

If I have something serious to confess, I make sure I make it at the start of the scheduled time on Saturday, I've seen the line long enough that not everyone makes it before Mass starts an hour and a half later.

19 posted on 01/14/2007 7:25:02 AM PST by siunevada (If we learn nothing from history, what's the point of having one? - Peggy Hill)
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To: siunevada

"I make sure I make it at the start of the scheduled time on Saturday, I've seen the line long enough that not everyone makes it before Mass starts an hour and a half later."

Perhaps your priest should take some more time from his busy week to offer this sacrament.


20 posted on 01/14/2007 8:08:04 AM PST by dsc
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To: dsc
He...makes it clear that the sacrament is available outside of the scheduled times

If someone needs it, they can have access to the sacrament. He's very clear about that. We recipients also have to be responsible on the scheduling, we're the ones who know what we need. Arriving at the end of the scheduled time and expecting no line is, mmmm, hoping for the best.

It's not like most parishes are overflowing with priests twidddling their thumbs looking for something productive to do. They really are pretty busy.

21 posted on 01/14/2007 8:41:12 AM PST by siunevada (If we learn nothing from history, what's the point of having one? - Peggy Hill)
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To: siunevada

"It's not like most parishes are overflowing with priests twidddling their thumbs looking for something productive to do. They really are pretty busy."

In Tokyo at Sophia University they have confession for two hours every day of the year.

Since returning to the states and arriving in Boise, I've been wondering just what it is that the priests do that keeps them so busy here.


22 posted on 01/14/2007 12:35:36 PM PST by dsc
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To: dsc
Since returning to the states and arriving in Boise, I've been wondering just what it is that the priests do that keeps them so busy here.

Maybe they should do a 'ride along' like the cops so people have an idea what an average day looks like.

23 posted on 01/14/2007 6:16:39 PM PST by siunevada (If we learn nothing from history, what's the point of having one? - Peggy Hill)
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To: siunevada

"Maybe they should do a 'ride along' like the cops so people have an idea what an average day looks like."

I think a little transparency of some sort would be appropriate.

This business of disappearing after Mass on Sunday and not surfacing again until 1530 on Saturday could be interpreted in a number of ways.


24 posted on 01/14/2007 8:23:56 PM PST by dsc
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To: vladimir998; m4629; NYer
"Just to clarify a bit, while the chaplin is Fr Ottonello, the Rector of the Oratory is Fr Michael Wiener of nearby Oakland diocese. He is a priest of the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest and carries the title of Episcopal Delegate for the Tridentine Rite for the Oakland diocese, which has the full support of Oakland bishop Vigneron for further expansion."

I have been attending Father Wiener's Sunday Tridentine Sung High Mass at St. Margaret Mary's in Oakland for the past 18 months. I really like it a LOT. The people who attend it take their Catholicism very seriously, which is rare in this day and age. I also enjoy hearing Father Wiener preach. The Church needs more priests like him (by the way, he is from Germany, so the "W" in his name is pronounced as a "V").

Confession is also taken very seriously at St. Margaret Mary's. There are two priests there, Father Wiener, and another priest who does 1 English, and 1 Latin Novus Ordo earlier in the day. The two priests switch off hearing confessions before and during each other's Masses. As a result, Confession is just about continuous on Sundays (the Tridentine Mass starts at 12:30). In fact, I went to confession today while Father Wiener was saying Mass (it is not a problem to fully participate in the Mass while standing/kneeling in line for Confession). During the Tridentine Mass, the line for Confession is quite long, which mirrors the experiences others have reported above.

Father Wiener will also be saying the 5:30pm Sunday Mass at the new Oratory in San Jose' (the two other Priests will be 3 Masses during the day before Father Wiener's 5:30). As a result, he is going to have a rather busy Sunday schedule from now on.

All in all, this is very good news for Traditional/Conservative Catholics in both the Oakland and San Jose's Diocese (they are right next to each other). Now, if we could just get the Diocese across the Bay from us, The Diocese of San Francisco, to allow the Tridentine Mass, we would be all set. However, none of us are holding our breath!!

:)

Either way, we will all be walking with Father Wiener in the March For Life demonstration through the City of San Francisco this coming Saturday (1/20). I ask all of your prayers as we carry the Pro-Life message through the heart of the most abortion-friendly city in the USA. Last year, it got a bit hairy as we marched through the belly of the beast, but the police did a very good job. Please pray for us as the 2007 event draws near (and if anyone is near the San Francisco Bay area, feel free to join us!!).
25 posted on 01/14/2007 11:11:28 PM PST by Zetman (I believe the children are the next generation.)
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To: dsc
You wrote: "Since returning to the states and arriving in Boise, I've been wondering just what it is that the priests do that keeps them so busy here."

I have wondered the same thing about some priests.

Other priests work themselves to death. My former pastor was put into the hospital last year for exhaustion. He was literally working himself to death. His superiors told him to slow down and do a little less. His parishioners now try to watch out for him. None of that has really slowed him down much. Reminds me of St. John Neumann.

I know of a priest who, while his immediate superior seemed to be doing little, was saying Mass four times a day -- on weekdays!!!
26 posted on 01/15/2007 5:36:52 AM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: PatrickF4
I'm just wondering why interest in the Tridentine mass is so high, yet interest in the Sacrament of Confession/Reconciliation seems so low.

Because weekly confession is not necessary for salvation, nor is it physically possible for all Catholics. There are 400,000 priests in the world. If every confession was just 3 minutes long on average, absolving every Catholic weekly would require all priests to hear confessions 150 hours per week.

Confession is only necessary for salvation if one is committing mortal sin. If you are committing mortals sins every week, you probably have some pretty serious life issues, and just going to confess them all the time is probably not the answer. Confession is only effective if you've already resolved to change to life and are actually doing so.

Its nice to go to confession just for venial sins weekly or monthly, but we need to be aware of laying up burdens upon people that are apart from the Gospel. Regular reception of the Eucharist, and regular prayer, are more than sufficient to cure most of our venial faults.

We need to keep in mind that the first Christians managed to make it through life with usually just a single opportunity for confession after Baptism. Frequent confession was not widely practiced until at least 1000 years after the time of Christ.

27 posted on 01/15/2007 9:16:29 AM PST by Andrew Byler
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To: Andrew Byler
In focusing on confession, I was merely pointing out that some have the desire to have the Tridentine mass for its aesthetic experience. While the heart of the Gospel is not about "Credo..." or "Dominus vobiscum..." rather, on the things of the heart.
28 posted on 01/17/2007 6:06:44 PM PST by PatrickF4
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To: NYer

We got the announcement about this at Mass last week when they let us know they were no longer going to have the Tridentine Mass on the first Saturday every month. I'm glad that Bishop McGrath is regularizing Fr. Ottonello's relationship to the diocese. He has been saying the Tridentine Mass in the diocese for years in a irregular manner.


29 posted on 01/17/2007 6:49:40 PM PST by Flying Circus
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To: PatrickF4
The Society of Saint Pius X has, for many years, provided spiritual guidance and Holy Sacraments to the faithful attending Holy Mass at:


The Chapel of Our Mother of Perpetual Help

Located on the grounds of the Saint Aloysius Gonzaga Retreat Center,
19101 Bear Creek Road, Los Gatos, CA
Latin Mass times are:
Sunday - 8:00am & 10:00am (High Mass)
Daily - 7:15am
Saturday - 7:30am
The Saint Aloysius Gonzaga Retreat Center's telephone number is 408-354-7703

Inasmuch as the only holy priest who took public exception to the yet to be retracted blasphemy ( See below.) of Bishop Patrick McGrath, was a priest attached to the SSPX Chapel of Our Mother of Perpetual Help in Los Gatos, it's curious the diocese's Santa Clara chapel bears the same name as the older and well established SSPX chapel in Los Gatos.

May the God Lord assist this bishop in overcoming his obvious lack of decorum, and propensity for pettiness.

To add to his bag of foibles, Bishop McGraw put a hold on any suggestion he was going 'traditional' by simultaneously proclaiming - in the same notice to every parish in the diocese about his copy-cat 'Our Mother of Perpetual Help Chapel' - a notice that he was directing a cease and desist command to Our Lady of Peace Parish in Santa Clara to halt the monthly Holy Latin Mass it had been celebrating since before the mockery created by Vatican II came into being.

For a bishop who boasts a knowledge of Canon Law, he sought to belittle the film "The Passion of The Christ" , by publicly declaring:

"While the primary source material of the film is attributed to the four gospels, these sacred books are not historical accounts of the historical events that they narrate. They are theological reflections upon the events that form the core of Christian faith and belief." ( San Jose Mercury News, 2/19/2004).

For one who is allegedly steeped in Canon Law, and the Sacred Dogma of the Holy Mother Church, the good bishop either intentionally or neglegently and falsely misled the faithful of Santa Clara County as well as the Mercury's readership throughout the nine county Bay Area Jose by denying Sacred Dogma:

The Catholic Church has always, clearly and infallibly, taught that the Holy Scriptures are historical accounts and has condemned the proposition that they are mere theological reflections. (See Pope St. Pius X's Decree "Lamentabili Sane, The Syllabus of Errors" Condemning the Errors of the Modernists, specifically #'s 3,16, 29, & 36).

Further, in paragraph 19 of The Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation (Dei Verbum), solemnly promulgated by His Holiness, Pope Paul VI on November 18th, 1965, it states:

“Holy Mother Church has firmly and with absolute constancy held, and continues to hold, that the four Gospels just named, whose historical character the Church unhesitatingly asserts, faithfully hand on what Jesus Christ, while living among men, really did and taught for their eternal salvation until the day He was taken up into heaven (see Acts 1:1).”

To this day, I can not find a retraction of those blasphemous words written in a daily newspaper by this man who insists upon wearing the mantle of shepard for the faithful of Santa Clara County.

Thanks to the good bishop we now have a second Chapel of Our Mother of Perpetual Help within Santa Clara County. Go figure.

30 posted on 01/19/2007 3:57:56 AM PST by Robert Drobot (Da mihi virtutem contra hostes tuos.)
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