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ALL CHRISTIANS HAVE A BIBLICAL WORLDVIEW, RIGHT?
christianworldviewnetwork.com ^ | Dr. Woodrow Kroll

Posted on 01/16/2007 8:00:22 AM PST by cowboyfan88

You would think that all Christians have a biblical view of the world around them. After all, we go to church, we’re a part of a small group, we’ve read The Purpose-Driven Life. Are you ready for a reality check? The research says just the opposite. Most Christians do not have a biblical worldview.

Author and researcher George Barna made waves by citing statistics that show just 9 percent of all adults in America who claim to be “born again” have a biblical worldview. You didn’t read that incorrectly—it was 9 percent. Protestants as a whole could only manage 7 percent with a biblical worldview (The Barna Research Group, January 12, 2004).

But that can’t be possible, can it? How could only 9 percent of born again adults view the world with a biblical focus? Let me make a few observations.

Bible illiteracy is rampant in the church

Like it or not, it’s time we faced up to the fact that we Christians are blatantly biblically illiterate. We don’t know the Bible nearly as well as we think we do.

To say that Bible illiteracy is rampant in America is black eye for a nation that thinks of itself as Christian. Sixty-five percent of Americans agree that the Bible "answers all or most of the basic questions of life." Amazingly, 28% of Americans who believe the Bible “answers all or most of the basic questions of life” say they rarely or never read the Bible (The Gallup Organization, October 20, 2000). Therein lies the problem.

But that’s the American public. What about the American church? Surely we aren’t as biblically illiterate as our unchurched neighbor? Don’t count on it.

Among those individuals who are associated with the Christian faith, only half (50%) rate themselves as being “absolutely committed” to the Christian faith (Barna Research Group, March 19, 2004). This lack of commitment to the faith often stems from a lack of commitment to the Word of God, the foundation for our faith.

In 2004, 16% of all adults agreed somewhat that the Bible is totally accurate in all of its teachings compared with 19% in 2002 and 25% in 1991. Still, 12 percent of born again Christians disagree that the Bible is totally accurate in all of its teachings (Barna Research Group, “The Bible,” 2004).

This innate mistrust of the Bible has resulted in millions of people owning Bibles but very few reading or believing them. The percentage of frequent readers, those who read the Bible at least once a week, has decreased from 40% in 1990 to 37% today. Only one American in seven reports an involvement with the Bible that goes beyond reading it (The Gallup Organization, October 20, 2000). The “born again” segment of the population fares only slightly better.

But with more programs, more 40-day adventures, more training in leadership skills, surely today’s pastors are better equipped than ever before to help their people out of the quagmire of Bible illiteracy. You’d think.

Pastors often do not themselves hold biblical worldviews.

Isaiah 56:11 makes reference to “shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way . . . .” We have to be careful not to generalize here because there are many fine men of God who are concerned about their people’s understanding of the Word. Still, an increasing number “look to their own way,” or if not their own way, the way of the latest hot book on church growth.

Based on interviews with 601 Senior Pastors nationwide, representing a random cross-section of Protestant churches, Barna reports that only half of the country’s Protestant pastors – 51% - have a biblical worldview (Barna Research Group, January 12, 2004).

George Barna argued, “The low percentage of Christians who have a biblical worldview is a direct reflection of the fact that half of our primary religious teachers and leaders (senior pastors) do not have one.”

In some denominations, the vast majority of clergy do not have a biblical worldview, and it shows up clearly in the data related to the theological views and moral choices of people who attend those churches” (Barna Research Group, January 12, 2004).

The result of Bible illiteracy is theological heterodoxy.

Heterodoxy is just a big word for whacky theology. Because people in the pews don’t know their Bibles very well, and because the pastor feels constrained to preach so as not to offend the mixed multitude attending church on Sunday morning, born-again adults are beginning to formulate some beliefs and practices that are anything but biblical.

George Barna says that Americans willingly “embrace beliefs that are logically contradictory and their preference for blending different faith views together create unorthodox religious viewpoints.”

Consider these findings:

n Among born again Christians, 10% believe that people are reincarnated after death.

n Among born again Christians, 29% claim it is possible to communicate with the dead.

n Fifty percent of born again Christians contend that a person can earn salvation based upon good works (Barna Research Group, October 21, 2003).

Don’t miss this. We are not talking about the beliefs of Americans here. We aren’t even talking about the beliefs of churched Americans. We are talking about “born-again, churched Americans.” These are things believed by the people who sat in the pew next to you last Sunday.

4. Biblical illiteracy that leads to theological heterodoxy always leads to moral frailty.

Those who have a biblical worldview also hold to biblical concepts and standards for living. Here’s the proof.

n Less than one-half of one percent of those with a biblical worldview said voluntary exposure to pornography was morally acceptable (compared to 39% of other adults).

n Those people with a biblical worldview were eight times less likely to buy lottery tickets and 17 times less likely to place bets than those who did not have a biblical worldview.

n While one out of every eight adults who lack a biblical worldview had sexual relations with someone other than their spouse during the prior month, less than one out of every 100 individuals who have such a worldview had done so (Barna Research Group, December 1, 2003).

Obviously knowing the Bible well impacts living with a biblical worldview and vice versa.

Follow the progression. We read our Bibles less and therefore understand less biblical truth. We attend a church where biblical truth was once the hallmark of the pulpit, but today the pulpit has been removed and we are fed a steady diet of spiritual gummy bears, more taste—less filling.

As a dumbed-down church we look for a belief system that matches others who have come into the church or those we read or watch on Christian television or hear on Christian radio.

We are so biblically ignorant we don’t even know that we’ve adopted beliefs that are much closer to Eastern mysticism than Christian orthodoxy. As a result, even though we are proudly part of the “born again” segment of Christianity, we hold a worldview that is no more biblical than our non-churched neighbor.

Does that hurt? It should. The truth often hurts. But we cannot correct the flaws in our worldview until we admit those flaws exist. And do they ever exist!

In future articles we’ll address what you can do if you feel your worldview weakening. For now, get back to the Bible and you’ll start to reverse the progression toward moral malaise.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Theology
KEYWORDS: bornagain; christian; christianitylite; orthodoxy; popchristianity; worldview
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1 posted on 01/16/2007 8:00:24 AM PST by cowboyfan88
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To: cowboyfan88; drstevej; OrthodoxPresbyterian; CCWoody; Wrigley; Gamecock; Jean Chauvin; jboot; ...

PING TO THE TRUTH HURTS!


2 posted on 01/16/2007 8:07:50 AM PST by alpha-8-25-02 ("SAVED BY GRACE AND GRACE ALONE")
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To: cowboyfan88
My ex-pastor was a big pusher of homosexual marriage (she was in the closet, but wasn't fooling anyone). In addition, she openly said that you don't have to believe things in the Bible if they don't "feel right" to you. Just take the parts that you like, ignore the parts that make you feel icky, and get ready to go to heaven.

Her biggest theological issue seemed to be: "Do pets go to heaven?" Her answer was "Absolutely yes!" because heaven wouldn't be fun without dogs and kitties.

I'm currently searching for a new church (of course).

3 posted on 01/16/2007 8:14:24 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (Enoch Powell was right.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
I'm currently searching for a new church (of course).

Finding one that does not have female leaders would be a good first step.
4 posted on 01/16/2007 8:16:15 AM PST by jkl1122
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To: cowboyfan88
Now if Churches get off the fad driven band wagon and every program and seminars that the wind drives in and get back to good old bible teaching, the church in America will be in better shape.
The church in places like Africa and Asia are putting the church of America to shame.
5 posted on 01/16/2007 8:18:36 AM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: jkl1122
I'm Protestant, and have no theological problem with women pastors. However, I have had experience with 6 female pastors (various denominations) and they all been disasters.

A female pastor is currently a definite deal-killer in my quest for a new church.

6 posted on 01/16/2007 8:19:31 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (Enoch Powell was right.)
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To: cowboyfan88
The problem with holding a "biblical worldview" is one of defining the Christian's role within that worldview.

Is the church meant to change the world? Those of us approaching this from the POV of Postmillennialism and the Reformation would say yes, the blood of Christ is capable of redeeming everything affected by the Fall, flowing outward from the repentant/obedient soul, compounded by the number of repentant/obedient souls, effecting a progressive change in culture and politics and art and everything produced by man. In fact, some believe that the Bible gives us guidelines in how to behave, as redeemed individuals, in each of these areas. Can a man repent of his old behavior, unless he has a new set of behaviors to substitute for them? And what should he expect from those new behaviors?

Many (but not all) approaching this from other POVs, especially Scofield-flavored Dispensational Premillennialism would say no, leave the culture alone. The culture will not (cannot?) be redeemed by anything - including a wholesale repentance and conversion of the population - other than the physical return of Christ. "You don't polish the brass on a sinking ship!" said evangelist Dwight L. Moody. If your theology teaches that Christians shouldn't "polish the brass on a sinking ship", you will probably discount or avoid altogether other ship-related disciplines as hull & sail repair, mastering sea-sickness, and simple navigation. Which is all fine and good, if you don't expect anyone to have an impact beyond making more converts, who themselves have no impact beyond making more converts, and so on.

In short, can we expect Christians to have a "biblical worldview", if we simultaneously tell them that they won't be having any lasting impact on that world anyway?

7 posted on 01/16/2007 8:20:50 AM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: alpha-8-25-02

No matter what denomination your church is it is very important that it have a good religious education program based on Scripture. It should be available from K- Highschool and include adult classes. It should be emphasized that a parents responsibility for their child's religious education does not begin and end with Sunday church attendance.

The enemy has many tools. We can not afford to hand him even more.


8 posted on 01/16/2007 8:23:51 AM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
I'm Protestant, and have no theological problem with women pastors

Then you are at odds with Scripture.
9 posted on 01/16/2007 8:30:34 AM PST by jkl1122
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To: jkl1122
Finding one that does not have female leaders would be a good first step.

Nope. The woman he referred to didn't have wacky ideas because she's female. Women as equally as capable of studying and believing the Bible as men. :-)

10 posted on 01/16/2007 8:31:13 AM PST by alnick
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To: Alex Murphy

Alex, I think you make some good points. I have done a lot of reading in the post-millennial community of late, and have enjoyed it. I am not fully committed to this point of view yet, but I do understand the inherent problems with complaining about the lack of a Biblical worldview whilst telling the congregation that it will make no difference anyway.


11 posted on 01/16/2007 8:33:11 AM PST by Zack Nguyen
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To: alnick

I agree that her ideas are not based on her being a woman. I never said that women are unable to study and believe the Bible. However, according to Scripture, they are not to be in positions of authority over men in the church.


12 posted on 01/16/2007 8:38:02 AM PST by jkl1122
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To: ClearCase_guy
I don't get to involved in arguments or any doctrines in whether animals go to heaven or not.... I just believe that if God created animals for a reason, then, he has a place for them in his plan.
I don't know were the scripture is in the Bible, but, I do know the Bible says that God considers the welfare of humans and the beast ( animals ).
Another thing people get confused about is, Heaven, and the Kingdom of God are the same thing, and when Jesus came, he said that the Kingdom of God was near, so in reality, the Kingdom of God is here and now, if you are in Christ, and Heaven/Kingdom of God is both a geographical place and a existence.
Heaven, and the Kingdom of God is were God is at, or in other words, as long as your in Christ, you are in Heaven NOW, or in the Kingdom of God NOW.
Yes, there will be animals in Christ's rein in his kingdom when Christ comes back in a fleshly body back to Earth.
Remember this ? the penalty of sin and judgment of sin was put on man, but, all creation suffers from the curse and consciences of sin.
Animals are totally innocent of the penalty of sin, but, not saved from the effects of sin has bought on Creation, i.e. death, disease, cruelty.
13 posted on 01/16/2007 8:53:57 AM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: alpha-8-25-02; cowboyfan88
Fifty percent of born again Christians contend that a person can earn salvation based upon good works

The religion of the natural man.

14 posted on 01/16/2007 8:54:13 AM PST by Gamecock (Ecclesia reformata, semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei)
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To: Alex Murphy
Alex,

Scofield-flavored Dispensational Premillennialism would say no, leave the culture alone. The culture will not (cannot?) be redeemed by anything - including a wholesale repentance and conversion of the population - other than the physical return of Christ.

I am one of those, and I think, for me, you have mischaracterized our position. What you have stated does not at all represent our perspective.

But, let's not get into this...the author's point is much broader than that - a biblical worldview sees the entire world, economics, history, ethics, family, community - you name it, from a biblical perspective. In other words, how does God see it. It is not just evangelism, it is a biblical perspective on my job, my recreation, my friendships...everything I do, from God's perspective, and how can I do what I do to His glory.

15 posted on 01/16/2007 9:02:22 AM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: jkl1122

No, they are not.


16 posted on 01/16/2007 9:09:35 AM PST by SuzyQue (Remember to think.)
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To: SuzyQue

Please provide Scriptural support for women taking positions of authority over men in the church.


17 posted on 01/16/2007 9:11:56 AM PST by jkl1122
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To: LiteKeeper
But, let's not get into this...

Thanks. Wasn't trying to start an argument, just pointing out that IMO different starting points will produce different results.

...the author's point is much broader than that - a biblical worldview sees the entire world, economics, history, ethics, family, community - you name it, from a biblical perspective. In other words, how does God see it. It is not just evangelism, it is a biblical perspective on my job, my recreation, my friendships...everything I do, from God's perspective, and how can I do what I do to His glory.

I agree entirely. My intention here is to point out that not everyone holds to the same "biblical perspective", thus they don't agree with certain behaviors or beliefs that contradict that perspective, and thus they believe that others don't have a perspective at all.

Case in point: I'm a postmil. I don't believe we're in the last generation, nor do I believe that subcutaneous banking chips/barcodes on the hands/social security numbers etc are necc. evil and should be stopped at all costs (I may object to them on other biblical grounds, but not on the basis of premil interpretations of prophecy). And I guarantee that statement will be enough for some to brand my own "Biblical worldview" as being misled (at best), if not openly satanic and antisemitic (at worst).

All I'm saying is that there's no consensus among Christians (Protestants, Evangelicals, Catholics, and Orthodox) about what that worldview looks like or what it's demands are. To suggest that Christians should hold to a certain worldview is to assume that they already hold to a certain understanding of the Bible.

I happen to think my "biblical worldview" is the correct one (I'm sure some will emphatically disagree with me), but we all think that about our own views. And naturally, I think/hope that others should share my views, thus I make efforts great and small to persuade them to change their minds. Why would I (or anyone) hold a view that we simultaneously think is incorrect or deficient? Why would I (or anyone) change our minds, unless we discover otherwise?

18 posted on 01/16/2007 9:31:28 AM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: cowboyfan88

Translation:

Only 9% agree with Barna and his wordings.


19 posted on 01/16/2007 9:32:51 AM PST by dangus (Pope calls Islam violent; Millions of Moslems demonstrate)
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To: ClearCase_guy

If you're checking out new churches anyway, you may give an Orthodox church a try some Sunday.

http://www.scoba.us/directory/


20 posted on 01/16/2007 9:33:53 AM PST by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: jkl1122; SuzyQue
Please provide Scriptural support for women taking positions of authority over men in the church.

Judges 4 comes immediately to mind.

21 posted on 01/16/2007 9:34:05 AM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: cowboyfan88

Matthew 7:14/15 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it./Beware of false prophets...


22 posted on 01/16/2007 9:35:03 AM PST by Thywillnotmine
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To: Alex Murphy; SuzyQue

Wrong covenant.


23 posted on 01/16/2007 9:36:01 AM PST by jkl1122
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To: jkl1122; LiteKeeper
Wrong covenant.

Thanks for proving my point. See post #18.

24 posted on 01/16/2007 9:39:06 AM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy; LiteKeeper

It isn't about my viewpoint being superior to yours, or anyone's. Our only authority for doctrine is the New Testament.


25 posted on 01/16/2007 9:48:44 AM PST by jkl1122
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To: Alex Murphy

Where in Judges 4 is the Christ's Church?


26 posted on 01/16/2007 10:00:16 AM PST by bremenboy (Just Because I Am Born Again Doesn't Mean I was Born Again Yesterday)
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To: cowboyfan88

***Bible illiteracy is rampant in the church

Like it or not, it’s time we faced up to the fact that we Christians are blatantly biblically illiterate. We don’t know the Bible nearly as well as we think we do. ***

Sadly this is true. Too many still think the Bible should follow a Cecil B. DeMille script.


27 posted on 01/16/2007 10:09:39 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: jkl1122; bremenboy
Care to give everyone your take on what the correct worldview should be, and what personal/group behaviors it should prompt? My post #7 makes for a convenient starting point.
28 posted on 01/16/2007 10:11:45 AM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Too many still think the Bible should follow a Cecil B. DeMille script.

Or a Mel Gibson one. Far too many believe they are synonymous.

29 posted on 01/16/2007 10:13:19 AM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: alpha-8-25-02; cowboyfan88

I never really understood "a Christian worldview" until I read Van Til. EVERYTHING is of God, regardless of whether we acknowledge that truth or not or how far the culture strays, at its peril.


30 posted on 01/16/2007 10:45:17 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: cowboyfan88
4. Biblical illiteracy that leads to theological heterodoxy always leads to moral frailty.

AMEN! Every Christian who agrees with that righteous statement is a Christian who has searched the Scriptures and found their own abilities mean nothing while Christ's ability and will and actions mean everything.

31 posted on 01/16/2007 10:49:46 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: cowboyfan88
...we’ve read The Purpose-Driven Life.

By that Syria-phile traitor, Rick Warren.

No thanks.

32 posted on 01/16/2007 11:03:24 AM PST by onedoug
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To: Alex Murphy
My intention here is to point out that not everyone holds to the same "biblical perspective"

This is a good point to make. The humanities courses at my college try to examine the subjects through the lenses of a "Christian worldview." In actuality, it is looking at those subjects thorough a Calvinist worldview. There are multiple cases where I believe that Calvinism deviates from a Catholic Biblical perspective, and I know that Calvinists feel the same way about Catholicism. One thing that has happened though thorough exposure to the topics that are agreed upon and those that are not is that I'm starting to understand and be able to articulate my perspective.

To suggest that Christians should hold to a certain worldview is to assume that they already hold to a certain understanding of the Bible.

Exactly. At least for the moment, a common worldview is only going to be able to be as specific as the similarities we share, which admittedly do go reasonably deep.

33 posted on 01/16/2007 11:04:04 AM PST by GCC Catholic
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To: cowboyfan88

I thought maybe the magazine you cite was guilty of rehashing three-year-old news. Nope. Although the magazine article is only half as old, you are posting old, old, old news that has been posted on Free Republic about a hundred times. Kindly make sure we haven't spun our wheels about this stuff before.


34 posted on 01/16/2007 11:13:49 AM PST by dangus (Pope calls Islam violent; Millions of Moslems demonstrate)
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To: Alex Murphy
Care to give everyone your take on what the correct worldview should be, and what personal/group behaviors it should prompt? My post #7 makes for a convenient starting point.

I would like a better definition of what is meant by Christian world view until then I would have to say

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
35 posted on 01/16/2007 11:37:57 AM PST by bremenboy (Just Because I Am Born Again Doesn't Mean I was Born Again Yesterday)
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To: dangus

Sorry I haven't been around here long enough to know what has and has not been discussed. I don't think anyone can say enough about this topic.


36 posted on 01/16/2007 11:57:35 AM PST by cowboyfan88
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To: cowboyfan88

I'd recommend doing a search first.

>> I don't think anyone can say enough about this topic. <<

I'd agree... except it's bogus.


37 posted on 01/16/2007 12:26:12 PM PST by dangus (Pope calls Islam violent; Millions of Moslems demonstrate)
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To: dangus; cowboyfan88
Although the magazine article is only half as old, you are posting old, old, old news that has been posted on Free Republic about a hundred times. Kindly make sure we haven't spun our wheels about this stuff before.

Gee, if that's the rule why don't we just shut down the Religion Forum and save everyone's time?

38 posted on 01/16/2007 12:30:28 PM PST by Gamecock (Ecclesia reformata, semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei)
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To: cowboyfan88

Dang... and here I thought it was just us catholics who didn't know the bible.

But, maybe we're not being counted as "Christians" as described in the article.

(sorry, don't mean no offense, just being a wise-guy)


39 posted on 01/16/2007 12:47:34 PM PST by Cap'n Crunch (Rush Limbaugh, the Winston Churchill of our time)
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To: Alex Murphy
In short, can we expect Christians to have a "biblical worldview", if we simultaneously tell them that they won't be having any lasting impact on that world anyway?

I listen to the Bible Broadcasting Network while I commute, cocooned in a time-warp dominated by the America of 1900-1950. It's a shabby and claustrophobic little subculture, glad to proclaim a Jesus who is "Lord" over the inner "universe," but irrelevent to the universe around us. Had to turn off one preacher this morning, his message was so vapid, empty, and B-O-R-I-N-G. How many times can you assert the need for rebirth, and remain oblivious to the purpose of regeneration? Hey, it's fun to think of myself as the axle of the universe, and my salvation is the reason the rings of Saturn spin ... but I think the Bible has a lot more to say about a King, and a Kingdom, and a purpose for living that extends beyond my feeling good about myself!

40 posted on 01/16/2007 1:02:02 PM PST by TomSmedley (Calvinist, optimist, home schooling dad, exuberant husband, technical writer)
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To: TomSmedley
but I think the Bible has a lot more to say about a King, and a Kingdom, and a purpose for living that extends beyond my feeling good about myself!

Well maybe you should play this game so you can feel good about yourself!

Oops, I almost forgot to close my formatting: < /sarcasm>

41 posted on 01/16/2007 1:13:43 PM PST by Gamecock (Ecclesia reformata, semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei)
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To: Alex Murphy

I don't have a worldview...I have a 'heaven' view...You can sail the ship...I'm enjoying the cruise by sitting in the lifeboat...


42 posted on 01/16/2007 1:35:44 PM PST by Iscool (There will be NO peace on earth, NOR good will toward men UNTIL there is Glory to God in the Highest)
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To: Prophet in the wilderness
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

This a a Spiritual Kingdom...

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

And THAT Kindom won't show up until Jesus shows up AGAIN...Because He is the King of that Kingdom and He WILL sit on the Throne of that Kingdom when it gets here...And THAT Kindgom is not here, yet...

43 posted on 01/16/2007 1:44:35 PM PST by Iscool (There will be NO peace on earth, NOR good will toward men UNTIL there is Glory to God in the Highest)
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To: Iscool
I don't have a worldview...I have a 'heaven' view...You can sail the ship...I'm enjoying the cruise by sitting in the lifeboat...

That's a pity, since your orientation means you need to ignore more than 90% of the Bible. Only a handful of verses speak of the life to come. Most of God's Word is an instruction manual for this life.

The problem with reducing your Christianity to a scale model of the real thing, small enough to fit between your ears, is that this perspective renders you unfit for Kingdom service, for carrying out the King's assignments, for His glory.

44 posted on 01/16/2007 2:05:17 PM PST by TomSmedley (Calvinist, optimist, home schooling dad, exuberant husband, technical writer)
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To: Iscool
Even an amateur with one year of college koine can see the holes in your arguement. It is because our Lord's power is not FROM this world, that it is so effective IN this world. Not using carnal tools, but nonetheless transforming whole nations that come under the gentle yoke of Christ.

What you are advocating is emotional masturbation, not condign adoration of and service to the One who reigns today from the Father's right hand.

45 posted on 01/16/2007 2:08:01 PM PST by TomSmedley (Calvinist, optimist, home schooling dad, exuberant husband, technical writer)
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To: TomSmedley
Most of God's Word is an instruction manual for this life.

Whatever floats yer boat...

The Bible I read is about a King...And a Kingdom...And how to prepare us for that Kingdom...

46 posted on 01/16/2007 2:39:29 PM PST by Iscool (There will be NO peace on earth, NOR good will toward men UNTIL there is Glory to God in the Highest)
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To: TomSmedley
Even an amateur with one year of college koine can see the holes in your arguement.

Yep...God wants educated people like you to study an old, dead language that He hasn't messed with for 2000 years so you have some idea what God has to say...You go ahead and keep believing that (snicker)...

47 posted on 01/16/2007 2:43:56 PM PST by Iscool (There will be NO peace on earth, NOR good will toward men UNTIL there is Glory to God in the Highest)
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To: Iscool

;-) back at ya!


48 posted on 01/16/2007 3:45:56 PM PST by TomSmedley (Calvinist, optimist, home schooling dad, exuberant husband, technical writer)
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To: cowboyfan88

"Among born again Christians, 29% claim it is possible to communicate with the dead."

They're right, it IS possible.
But it's not a good, wholesome or wise thing to do.
Because when you open yourself up to that sort of thing, someone may very well talk to you, but it may very well not be someone dead at all, but someone of an altogether different nature.

Trafficking in spirits is a bad idea. Now, angels or spirits of the dead may come and knock YOU on the head for some good purpose. But if you go looking to drag them up from the grave, well, you're asking for it. The Biblical story of Saul gives an example. He DID talk to the dead, in the story, but it didn't work out so well for him.

If you see the dead, which happens, you see them. But don't conjure them. For who knows what you're really conjuring.


49 posted on 01/16/2007 4:06:28 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Aure entuluva.)
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To: jkl1122; Alex Murphy
Our only authority for doctrine is the Old and New Testament.

Jesus said, "I have not come do abolish the Law, but to fulfill it."

No, I don't adhere to the Ceremonial Law, etc. But, you can't understand the Gospel without understanding Genesis 3. You can't understand marriage without Genesis 1 and 2. And so on...New Testament doctrine cannot be understood apart from an understanding of the Old Testament...and particularly, the Book of Genesis.

50 posted on 01/16/2007 4:25:41 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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