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To: NYer

As if "early Church Fathers" is significant name dropping compared to "Biblical reference to the immaculate conception" of which there's none.


14 posted on 02/12/2007 7:26:57 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Acts 17:11 also known as sola scriptura.)
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To: DungeonMaster; Religion Moderator

Please remember that you are a guest in our Church, so to speak. So of us truly value reading and learning more about our faith without unpleasant comments from others.

Please respect the Caucus nature of this thread.


15 posted on 02/12/2007 7:57:55 AM PST by mockingbyrd (peace begins in the womb)
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To: DungeonMaster
As if "early Church Fathers" is significant name dropping compared to "Biblical reference to the immaculate conception" of which there's none

"Hail full of grace, the Lord is with thee." (St. Luke 1.28) The word "full of grace" - "kecharitomene" in Greek - means a plenitude of grace received in the past and continuing in the present - "Are-graced".

"It is permissible, on Greek grammatical and linguistic grounds, to paraphrase kecharitomene as completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." (Blass and DeBrunner, Greek Grammar of the New Testament).

"She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin. ... God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. ... God is with her, meaning that all she did or left undone is divine and the action of God in her. Moreover, God guarded and protected her from all that might be hurtful to her." (Martin Luther, Personal Prayer Book (1522), Jaroslav Pelikan, ed., Luther's Works (St. Louis: Concordia), vol. 43, 40.)

"I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel." (Genesis 3.15)

How could Blessed Mary be at enmity with the devil if she was at any time under his power through sin?

"It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin." (Martin Luther: Sermon, 1527)

20 posted on 02/12/2007 8:38:48 AM PST by Andrew Byler
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