Islam, Protestantism and Divergence from Catholicism

Faith Magazine ^ | January-February 2007 | Francis Lynch

[TomSmedley]

I'm a Calvinist Christian, and find this article a profitable consideration of the influences floating around "back then." Luther, I seem to recall, expected that muslims and jews would flock into his churches, once he'd scraped off the offensive Catholic barnacles. He was wrong, and resentful.

[Titanites]

A Calvinist scholar, David Chilton, suggested that the Reformers borrowed their notion of ears-only worship from Islam. As a former Catholic, I can attest to the power of the liturgical year and colors to structure time for God's glory.

That is an interesting perspective.

[TomSmedley]

The Mormons are here. Protestants will squabble with them.

(Parenthetically and sotto voce, the Latter Day Saints have been called "the American Islam.") I happen to like Mormons, and pray for God's blessings to rest on O. S. Card, the one big-name s.f. novelist with the horsepower to publically honor the Lord Jesus Christ in a hostile genre.

[Kolokotronis]

"Well, Jesus called the rabbinic judaism of his day, with its notion that talmud took precdence over torah, a heretical national misadventure."

Within the bounds of Judaism it may well have been. But Christians have no business calling Jews heretics any more than we can call Hindus heretics. Neither pretend to be Christians. Now Hindus may be pagans, but they are not heretics. Jews are neither vis a vis Christianity. They have their own covenant with God which we as Christians believe we have succeeded to. Mohammedanism is a type of Christian heresy, or so the Fathers taught. From the pov of The Church, so is Reformed Protestantism.

[Titanites]

I seem to recall, expected that muslims and jews would flock into his churches, once he'd scraped off the offensive Catholic barnacles. He was wrong, and resentful.

It is truly unfortunate that it did not work.

[TomSmedley]

Muslims had to keep their text in its original language because of the "information science" limitations of their time.

Emir Caner, a Baptist convert from Islam and seminary professor, publically bemoaned one aspect of the printing press -- people no longer memorized the entire NT.

[steadfastconservative]

Jesus founded one Church. He never spoke about 7 churches. St. Paul addressed different local churches in his epistles and these churches were all part of the one Church founded by Christ.

I'm not accusing you of heresy. You don't belong to the Church, so you can't dissent from it. You come by your error honestly. Now, smile! Doesn't that make you feel better?

[Mr. Lucky]

I suppose you're right. If the pastor doesn't believe that Christ is truly present in the Sacrament (as He told us He would be), the order of the liturgy doesn't help much.

[RobbyS]

Odd that the nondenominational churches are so indifferent to liturgy. The New Testament is very unspecific about the order of service, but the outline is there: Scripture, song, prayer AND the breaking of the bread. But the Lord's Supper , so important to the early Christians, as we see in Justin Martyr, is so downplayed. Such as order as they have follows Geneva. Ironically, Calvin himself would have preferred something more like what Cranmer created. Except he didn't want to impose. His fierceness did not extend to trying to dominate people. As I read Calvin, he would have accepted much of the panapoly of the Church in order to change the theology, in this being like Luther indifferent to externals. In short, he was not a Puritan.

[Marysecretary]

I believe, whether there were seven churches or seventy churches, that the Roman Catholic Church is NOT the one true church. There were other churches at that time and if you believe the RC is the only one, go for it, but it wasn't.

[Marysecretary]

Exactly. There are many differences, usually doctrinal but not scriptural, but there are many things we believe that are the same. We get caught up in ritual instead of in the Saviour. Thanks. xxx

[Titanites]

There is an interesting thread called Protestant Liturgics which addresses some of your comments regarding liturgy in nondenominational churches.

[technochick99]

Heck, that's where the party is! It's where you want to go.

I had to comment on this - it appears according to polls taken by secular organizations as well as research undertaken by the Church Herself, that many people have the idea of Heaven being a very boring place. It's nice to see the contrary!

[highlander_UW]

I don't normally poke into the catholic-protestant threads. Can you tell me, is this really where modern catholicism is at this point? If so, catholicism is even more messed up than I thought.

[Forest Keeper]

The prevailing religion of Arabia at that time WAS indeed paganism, though Muhammad was well aware of the "people of the book", ...

Thanks, Blogger, for a great history lesson. With the Apostolics wrongly comparing us to Islam so often, I didn't think about how much THEY actually have in common. Good stuff.

[Blogger]

Your Pope said that they worship the same God as the Jews and Christians.

[Blogger]

Uhhhhh......
Revelation 1:
18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

19Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

[RobbyS]

Who is the God of Abraham and in an imperfect sense also the God of Moses and Jesus.

[Blogger]

The God they worship is not the God of the Jews. COMPARED WITH Who is the God of Abraham and in an imperfect sense also the God of Moses and Jesus.
Uh???? IN NO SENSE is Allah the God of Moses or Jesus. NONE. ZERO. NADA. ZILCH. Just because someone stole some ideas from the Bible and fabricated a story then said "Same God, but ours is more perfect" doesn't mean that they are right. Muslims worship Satan. They do not realize it for he comes mascarading at God. Anyone who claims that they worship the same God as the Hebrews or Christians is supporting the works of Satan. They have a different God. They deny the deity of Christ. They deny His crucifixion. They deny His resurrection. And, they have a works plus faith in Allah religion. They are anti-Christ and the statements that have been made to the contrary, be they from John Paul II or George W Bush (who I like) are anti-Christ as well. DO NOT COMPROMISE ON THE ESSENTIALS OR YOU WILL HAVE NO GROUND FOR ANY KIND OF TRUTH CLAIMS PERIOD.

[RobbyS]

If they stole the idea of God from the Bible, that God is stlll God. The God depicted in the Koran has some but not all of the attributes attributed to God by Jews and by Christians.