Posted on 02/17/2007 11:55:27 AM PST by Titanites
If you want to discuss "Religion and the Rise of Capitalism," maybe we could start a separate thread on that...
But as far as this thread goes, I think the author does make some interesting points. First of all, let me say that I don't think Protestantism is directly descended from Islam. For one thing, what is "Protestantism"? There are so many varieties of it that the term is almost meaningless. Nowadays, it means simply neither Orthodox nor Catholic. So perhaps the best thing to do for this discussion is to limit it specifically to Luther and his immediate followers and disregard the variants that appeared later.
That said, I don't think Luther was directly inspired by Islam, although there certainly would have been some discussion of it in the universities of his day. Many of the things that Luther believed or defended, either initially or eventually, such as polygamy, were typical features of other, earlier movements and did not come from Islam. The only thing I do wonder about is the "Sola Scriptura" current. That strikes me as something that might reflect a direct influence of Islam and its approach to its texts. Or did it come from somewhere else? I don't recall it's having been part of any other earlier movement in Christianity.
I am in full agreement. But there are some very interesting points made in the article that are worth pondering. More than once on FR, I have seen it noted that Islam is a heresy of Christianity.
As always, your comments are much appreciated.
Very interesting comments. Thanks.
Interesting. Thanks for the links.
Okay, here's a "point."
What do you get when you ignore everything not found in the Bible? Fundamentalism. Christian Fundamentalism, to be exact.
Why, who are they? Presbyterians, Baptists, etc... Protestants all.
So you see, this one "point" in the article is flatly false.
Further, to compare Islamic Fundamentalism to Christian Fundamentalism is simply insane. We don't even worship the same God.
Maybe nice-looking, but it is hard to tell from here.
"Part of Islam was derived from Gnosticism, but much of it is derived from ancient Arab religious beliefs."
And from the influence of Nestorian monks on Mohammed. There were also various strains of Marian heresies, including on in which she was worshipped as a goddess which worked their way into Mahammedanism. Nestorianism still exists in pockets here and there from Syria to China. Most of its influence elsewhere is seen in certain Protestant views of the nature of Christ. Of course Judaism had a major influence, especially on the nature of the mohammedan god allah.
Doubtful, since Islam doesn't require Muslims to understand the Koran & translation into any language from the original Arab is frowned upon. The idea is to recite the book in Arab & Allah will do the rest.
Then there are the side books about the life of Mo, so the faithful can model their lives after him. When Muslims want to know how it all applies to something, they get a ruling about it (fatwa) from a Muslim scholar.
Catholics are not idol worshipers. That is a common misunderstanding.
*Ungh* (My brothers fight so!)
This is a Protestant bash thread, get with the program!
Hmm, no mention of the Islamic-esque inquisitions. No mention of spreading faith by the sword in Latin America. I could go on but why bother.
This is simply cherry picking history.
Thanks for your comments regarding the article.
"In my opinion, Allah is not God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob which means Muslims have no spiritual relationship whatsoever with Jews or Christians."
Well, we certainly can point to that moon god or goddess, I forget which, from which Allah seems derived, but the fact is that the Mahammedans say that Allah is the same god worshipped by Abraham, Moses etc. They've claimed that from the beginning. And you must admit that the complete ineffability of Allah is similar to that of God in the OT. Beyond that, the apparent vicious capriciousness of Allah fits rather well with at least some OT versions of God as well as what some Protestants profess to believe He is like. We've had a discussion on another thread here on FR about the differing views about God as between Orthodox and Latins on one side and Calvinist type Christians on the other. I myself remarked that the divergence is so profound that it is as if we worship two different "Gods".
Certainly Orthodoxy and to a lesser extent The Latin Church have similarities to and connections with Judaism. Jewish friends and a Rabbi I know marvel at the Divine Liturgy, with the Rabbi commenting that but for soem of the prayers, he imagines himself at a Temple ceremony. The Protestant connection to the OT and its ideas about the covenant God made with the Jews is self-evident. I doubt the author of this piece would deny that. Judaism exists complete within itself. That is to say, no one can call Judaism a heresy. One can say, however, that heresies arose out of Judaism just as they arose out of catholic Christianity or out of a mixture of both or the heresies of both. Islam is one such heresy and it has certain hallmarks which Protestantism shares. But as I said, I don't believe Protestantism arose out of Islam.
Of course Judaism had a major influence, especially on the nature of the mohammedan god allah.
They pulled the founder of their religion from Judaism, the whole Abraham thing. They are the children of Ishmael, the older son born to Abraham. Ishmael was the son Abraham offered in sacrifice & his inheritance was usurped. The Jewish prophecies about the Messiah are meant for them.
As a Christian Catholic, I publicly reject it. Helium could not make this rise to the level of offal
LOL! Okay.
So far Catholics have gotten the Inquisition thrown in their face twice and "Holier than Thou" branded on their forehead in way of refute.
I was more interested in ripping the article to shreds as nonsense than insulting our brothers.
Surbutt, it becomes a question as to where one even starts. LOL
That's what the Koran says, not the Bible.
It was Isaac.
Genesis 22:2
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