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Angels singing caught on tape
World Net Daily ^ | February 18, 2007 | Joe Kovacs, WND

Posted on 02/18/2007 7:30:33 PM PST by freedomdefender

A retired Air Force officer who now spends his days authoring books on Christianity has posted an online collection of recordings he believes captures voices and music of God's angels in heaven.

Angelic statue in Lommel, Belgium (photo: Jan Schiphorst, used with permission)

"I have four specific recordings of angels singing in church settings," Jim Bramlett of Lake Mary, Fla., told WND. "It happened supernaturally. There's no other explanation. It's either from God or from the devil, and I don't think the devil is in the business of worshipping Jesus. That is not in his job description."

Bramlett, 76, collected the tapes from various sources in recent years, and has now put them on his ChoicesForLiving website, where readers can click on several links to listen to three recordings made in the U.S., and one from China.

The Feb. 6, 1996, recording at the Greater Grace World Outreach Church in Baltimore, Md., starts off with a woman playing a piano, and gradually, accompanying voices are heard in the background. Bramlett described them as "beautiful voices of beings who were not in the service."

Jim Bramlett

"I have the full tape with the pastor discussing the situation with the congregation, and about 25 people gave testimony to hearing the voices. They were all in awe at what had happened."

Another recording took place at the Carpenter's Home Church in Lakeland, Fla., and features a 10-minute, sustained sound after a call to praise by a minister.

"They seem to lift the praise of the congregation to a totally new and awesome level, and it just goes on and on. The intensity and consistency are clearly supernatural and beyond the ability of the congregation," explains Bramlett, a former vice president at the Christian Broadcasting Network where he spent nine years.

(Story continues below)

A woman who says she and her husband were at the Lakeland service wrote Bramlett to vouch for the authenticity of what took place:

"The tape of the Florida meeting was exactly like the way it sounds. Glenn and I were there during those meetings, and if it wasn't this one then there is another tape of a meeting where [the phenomenon] happened again. The one we were in went on and on and stopped abruptly. Silence for about a minute then a male voice sang out 'Glooooory' and several women's voices from different directions echoed 'Gloooooory' in perfect harmony, and the praise and worship started up all over again."

Perhaps the most stunning of all the recordings is thought to be from a church in Kansas City, where there is not only an audible chorus of "Hallelujah" – meaning "praise God" – but also the voice of a male soloist who purportedly was not present. The lyrics of the mysterious solo were transcribed as follows:

Hallelujah, breathe it all across the land Everybody's singing at the Lord's command All the saints and the angels up in glory wait to hear the news of Jesus and his children as they're coming through. Though he doesn't have it on tape, Wayne Warmack of Greater Works Ministries in Rogers, Ark., says he and his wife, Sandy, personally heard angelic voices during a Passover celebration last April at a lakeside retreat center near Marianna, Fla.

"I began to distinctly hear wordless voices in perfect harmony with us, that were clearly not coming from me or Sandy, or the other 20 or so people present in the room. They sort of drifted in and out of my hearing while I struggled to maintain my composure and continue the song," Warmack said. "If you've ever heard that sound, it leaves you a different person than when you came in. I can't describe it. There's just no way to describe it. It is definitely heard with more than just the physical ears."

But not everyone is joining the chorus of hallelujahs.

Steven Novella

Dr. Steven Novella, a neurologist at Yale University School of Medicine and president of the New England Skeptical Society, analyzed the electronic voice phenomenon, or EVP, at WND's request.

"The fatal problem with this entire type of evidence is that there is no way to validate or invalidate the source of sound on a recording. Therefore it has no discriminating value," Novella said. "Personal testimony is not reliable as evidence and is not acceptable scientifically. Choosing to have faith in the persons making the angel-voice claims is no different than just having faith in angels in the first place, so the recordings don't get you anywhere."

Novella discussed some of the specific claims made by Bramlett and others who suggest the source of the sound is supernatural:

"There seems to be no doubt they are angelic voices." They sound like human voices to me. This is just a bold assertion without supporting argument or evidence.

" ... about 25 people gave testimony to hearing the voices. They were all in awe at what had happened." Not uncommon for a congregation of believers sharing a common belief and being swept into an emotional fervor by an experienced preacher. Not exactly dispassionate testimony.

"I have had this tape for several years but I recently found a cleaner version of it on the Internet, preceded by an explanation. I do not know the identity of the narrator." This reminds of the "Jesus in the clouds" picture that keeps cropping up. When the same piece of evidence keeps coming up in different contexts and situations, that strongly suggests fraud. Also, the angels in this recording were playing bass guitar and horn, and at one point broke into a pretty funky beat. It's actually pretty laughable. Also, it was noted that the angel voices were not noticed until the recording was played back, so nothing was heard during the recording. This is a red flag for a recording artifact. The simplest explanation is that the recording was made over a prior recording of a choir singing with accompanying music, and they heard the two recordings superimposed when they played it back.

So, bottom line, these are all worthless as evidence. They are being offered uncritically by people who already believe, are not questioning the angel claims, and who are committing some logical fallacies.

"I think his explanations are nonsense," responded Bramlett.

"Over the years, I have found there are negative skeptics and cynics out there on every subject. It is easy to find them. They are so predictable, and they typically reject anything supernatural. They have to, because to admit it would be tantamount to admitting to a God to whom they are accountable. They cannot permit that. It is as simple as that. Biblically speaking, you could say they are spiritually dead and they think everything must have a natural, material explanation."

The concept of supernatural beings called angels has a strong basis in Scripture. In the King James Version of the Bible, the word "angel" is found 201 times in 192 verses, while "angels" occurs 94 times in 92 verses.

At least two are named – Michael and Gabriel – and the New Testament describes a galactic conflict involving angels at war with each other.

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels (Revelation 12:7)

The Bible also records numerous instances of angels appearing to humans and even having discussions with them.

The angel Gabriel appears to the virgin Mary in 1898's 'The Annunciation' by Pennsylvania artist Henry Ossawa Tanner

The 19th chapter of Genesis indicates two angels helped rescue Lot and his family from the ancient city of Sodom; Luke 1:26 shows the angel Gabriel being dispatched by God to the town of Nazareth to inform Mary she would miraculously become pregnant with Jesus; and Hebrews 13:2 reminds people to "entertain strangers," since some strangers might actually be angels.

Bramlett believes angels are still making appearances in our modern day, and he documents several purported instances on his website.

"Some say that true reality is spiritual, not physical," he said. "The supernatural breaks through [into our dimension], and it's exciting when it does."


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: angel; angels; apparition; music; singing
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1 posted on 02/18/2007 7:30:35 PM PST by freedomdefender
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To: freedomdefender

There are many instances of people seeing angels in human form. No reason why angels shouldn't be heard singing, when they want to be heard.


2 posted on 02/18/2007 7:33:04 PM PST by freedomdefender
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To: freedomdefender

"Bramlett believes angels are still making appearances in our modern day,"

Well, this will upset the roman catholic church.


3 posted on 02/18/2007 7:33:57 PM PST by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: edcoil

Why is that?


4 posted on 02/18/2007 7:36:13 PM PST by icwhatudo (The rino borg...is resistance futile?)
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To: freedomdefender

If I get to heaven and find out that angels sing that horrible muck you hear in nondenominational Protestant churches, with stupid badly-rhyming lyrics and a heavy base line and electric guitars, I'm leaving.


5 posted on 02/18/2007 7:36:55 PM PST by Fairview ( Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.)
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To: edcoil

How's that?


6 posted on 02/18/2007 7:37:21 PM PST by peteram
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To: edcoil

why?


7 posted on 02/18/2007 7:38:01 PM PST by Right in Wisconsin (Have a Happy Day)
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To: Fairview
that horrible muck you hear in nondenominational Protestant churches,

You hear it in Catholic churches, too. to get away from it, ironically, you probably have to go to a liberal mainline downtown Presby or Methodist or Episcopal church, where they tend to have traditional music and even paid choirs. Also, a Lutheran church or any synod still understands the value of good music.

8 posted on 02/18/2007 7:41:14 PM PST by freedomdefender
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To: Fairview
That would be hell.

Heaven's reserved for music such as Bach's Mass in B minor, Beethoven's Missa Solemnis, and Jimi Hendrix's "Machine Gun."

9 posted on 02/18/2007 7:44:03 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: freedomdefender
You hear it in Catholic churches, too. to get away from it, ironically, you probably have to go to a liberal mainline downtown Presby or Methodist or Episcopal church, where they tend to have traditional music and even paid choirs. Also, a Lutheran church or any synod still understands the value of good music.

That's odd...in his day C.S. Lewis described hymns as being fifth-rate lyrics set to sixth-rate music.

Cheers!

10 posted on 02/18/2007 7:45:27 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: freedomdefender

They play that drek in our church. The same lyrics are repeated six or eight times instead of having 6 or 8 novel verses; I guess modern songwriters can't be bothered to do something as tiresome as writing several verses.

I love my church but now I just go there in time to hear the pastor's brilliant sermon; the music gives me a nervous breakdown and Mr. Fairview silently protests by crossing his arms across his chest if we have to listen to much of it.

What's so wrong with the beautiful old hymns that have inspired believers for centuries? And what's with having a sax played in church? Every time I hear it I think of bill clinton, which definitely puts me in a non-reverent mood.


11 posted on 02/18/2007 7:48:49 PM PST by Fairview ( Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: edcoil

Why would you say that? Do you know what teh Catholic Church teaches about angels? from the Catechism:

The existence of angels — a truth of faith

328
The existence of the spiritual, non-corporeal beings that Sacred Scripture usually calls "angels" is a truth of faith. The witness of Scripture is as clear as the unanimity of Tradition.

Who are they?

329
St. Augustine says: "'Angel' is the name of their office, not of their nature. If you seek the name of their nature, it is ‘spirit'; if you seek the name of their office, it is ‘angel': from what they are, ‘spirit,' from what they do, ‘angel.'"188 With their whole beings the angels are servants and messengers of God. Because they "always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven" they are the "mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word."189


330
As purely spiritual creatures angels have intelligence and will: they are personal and immortal creatures, surpassing in perfection all visible creatures, as the splendor of their glory bears witness.190

Christ "with all his angels"

331
Christ is the center of the angelic world. They are his angels: "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him. . . ."191 They belong to him because they were created through and for him: "for in him all things were created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities—all things were created through him and for him."192 They belong to him still more because he has made them messengers of his saving plan: "Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation?"193

332

Angels have been present since creation and throughout the history of salvation, announcing this salvation from afar or near and serving the accomplishment of the divine plan: they closed the earthly paradise; protected Lot; saved Hagar and her child; stayed Abraham's hand; communicated the law by their ministry; led the People of God; announced births and callings; and assisted the prophets, just to cite a few examples.194 Finally, the angel Gabriel announced the birth of the Precursor and that of Jesus himself.195

333

From the Incarnation to the Ascension, the life of the Word incarnate is surrounded by the adoration and service of angels. When God "brings the firstborn into the world, he says: ‘Let all God's angels worship him.'"196 Their song of praise at the birth of Christ has not ceased resounding in the Church's praise: "Glory to God in the highest!"197 They protect Jesus in his infancy, serve him in the desert, strengthen him in his agony in the garden, when he could have been saved by them from the hands of his enemies as Israel had been.198 Again, it is the angels who "evangelize" by proclaiming the Good News of Christ's Incarnation and Resurrection.199 They will be present at Christ's return, which they will announce, to serve at his judgment.200


13 posted on 02/18/2007 7:50:28 PM PST by Nihil Obstat
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To: Fairview
If I get to heaven and find out that angels sing that horrible muck you hear in nondenominational Protestant churches, with stupid badly-rhyming lyrics and a heavy base line and electric guitars, I'm leaving.

There's a special place in heaven for those who like their hymns to sound like a funeral dirge. ;)

14 posted on 02/18/2007 7:50:54 PM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: freedomdefender

I am somewhat familiar with Jim Bramlett. He is a devout and honest man by all accounts.


15 posted on 02/18/2007 7:52:38 PM PST by JCEccles
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I might add, my son was a vocal music major in college. He performed a few pieces with a chorale group that, in certain settings, were designed to produce overtone sounds that gave a separate richness and complexity to the music that had to be heard to be believed.


16 posted on 02/18/2007 7:56:09 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: freedomdefender

Well Randy and Paula might put them through but I wouldn't count on Simon.


17 posted on 02/18/2007 7:58:25 PM PST by badpacifist (I want you, I need you. But there ain't no way I'm ever gonna love you. So don't be sad.)
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To: freedomdefender
As far as I'm concerned people can hear what they want to hear.

The trick is to not let yourself be fooled into thinking it's something that it's not.

18 posted on 02/18/2007 8:00:20 PM PST by WestVirginiaRebel (A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel-Robert Frost)
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To: Nihil Obstat

Maybe he meant that the Catholic church wouldn't like the fact that this occurred in a Protestant church setting with people actually speaking in tongues (The Lakeland Florida tape) rather than at a Catholic Mass.


19 posted on 02/18/2007 8:00:38 PM PST by peteram
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To: Fairview

I think it's all just a matter of taste. There are some old hymns that do nothing for me, and I feel like I'm just mouthing words just to get through them. But then there are modern songs {Shout to the Lord, for example} that are amazing in their ability to put me in the spirit of worship.


20 posted on 02/18/2007 8:03:02 PM PST by Jessarah
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To: freedomdefender

Beethoven's "Ode To Joy" can be heard often at today's United Methodist and Presbyterian services. The words are different, of course.


21 posted on 02/18/2007 8:05:10 PM PST by soupcon
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To: MEGoody

The werewolves who come out here at FR to bash decent music in favor of stuff from the 17th century amaze me as well.


22 posted on 02/18/2007 8:06:47 PM PST by Luke Skyfreeper
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To: peteram

bookmark


23 posted on 02/18/2007 8:07:27 PM PST by kalee
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To: Jessarah

I admit there are a few modern songs I like. I like "Shout to the Lord," too. I'm not good with titles, though. And yes, there are some of the old hymns that are incredibly boring. But a huge part of the excitement value of any song is in its arrangement, and there's a tendency to arrange the older hymns with a tiresome piano arrangement.

Bach and Handel and Buxtehude aren't boring, though. Mozart isn't boring; listen to the "Vesperae Solonnes de Confessore" and you will be thrilled. As a Protestant I must admit with regret that some of the most beautiful and holy music was written for the Catholic Church.


24 posted on 02/18/2007 8:07:52 PM PST by Fairview ( Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.)
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To: freedomdefender

bookmark


25 posted on 02/18/2007 8:08:27 PM PST by freema (Marine FRiend, 1stCuz2xRemoved, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: Fairview

Happily, He accepts that which is sung with a giving heart, whether or not perfect voices or beautiful songs are involved.

And I have to remind myself of that when I hear seemingly endless repetition or incomprehensible lyrics from any denomination's music.


26 posted on 02/18/2007 8:09:11 PM PST by skr (Freedom is one of the deepest and noblest aspirations of the human spirit. -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: freedomdefender

I have a potato chip with the visage of Mary. I know this because I saw her likeness on a piece of french toast being sold on eBay.


27 posted on 02/18/2007 8:26:48 PM PST by WorkingClassFilth ("Don't tread on me" - the motto of Patriots. "May I lick your boots?" - the motto of too many "R"s.)
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To: Fairview

Oh please! Find something real to be upset about at church besides how other people are worshiping the Lord!

All you'll care about in Heaven is about worshipping God - and if that's singing old time hymns, then belt it out with vigor, and if all that comes to mind is this new stuff, then sing it with gusto - but the point of worship is supposed to be God centered, not self-centeredness.


28 posted on 02/18/2007 8:31:40 PM PST by justche (Freedom and Security go together - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Fairview

At our church we have one service with the good old hymns, and the second service with the newer stuff. I hear the choir and get to belt out an old hymn at the first service, and sing countless (boring!) refrains of the newer music at the second service - but at least the kids in church (and most of the adults including my wife) enjoy it. Once in awhile a newer song will touch my soul.


29 posted on 02/18/2007 8:33:37 PM PST by geopyg (Don't wish for peace, pray for Victory.)
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To: justche
but the point of worship is supposed to be God centered, not self-centeredness.

Amen! Reminds me of the lyrics to one of my favorite contemporary worship songs:

"I'm coming back to the heart of worship.
And it's all about you, it's all about you Jesus.
I'm sorry Lord for the thing I've made it.
When it's all about you, it's all about you Jesus.

from "The Heart of Worship"

30 posted on 02/18/2007 8:41:58 PM PST by peteram
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To: Fairview

Great songs such as Victory in Jesus, How Great Thou Art, The Old Rugged Cross are sorely missed these days.


31 posted on 02/18/2007 8:42:31 PM PST by maxter
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To: MEGoody

Give me the Bells of St. Agnes ... or Handel's Hornpipe Symphony.


32 posted on 02/18/2007 8:45:28 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Fairview

I once met a missionary who went to indigenous peoples and recorded their worship services. At one particular place...very remote...they had no access to organs or any other instruments...instead they improvised with a tin can and a stick that was beat upon it. The people sang their praises to the Lord with an anointing that was tremendous. The Spirit of the Lord was in their songs.
God is in heaven looking down at these people and listening to their praise and worship of him....there was nothing fancy...no doleful organ music...no electic guitars...just worshiping Him in Spirit and in Truth....with a stick and a tin can..

Do you think God would think this as muck? I don't think he would. They worshiped in their own style...just as your style is with traditional hymns...others like the modern sound....worship is from the heart...it is not the instruments played...God honors heartfelt worship no matter what form it takes.

Just for a second..sit back and picture the Lord in heaven looking down on earth listening closely as the worship of his body rises up to meet His ears. It is not just one song..it is many songs with many styles...it is a symphony of voices, instruments and sounds coming up at once...filling the ears of our Lord...it is even a stick banging on a tin can. All beautiful to him.

I would say to you...you better loosen up your knickers...because heaven is going to be a noisy place....so get ready.... all who enter will worship in spirit and in truth.


33 posted on 02/18/2007 8:47:41 PM PST by leenie312
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To: Mr. Mojo

Don't forget Voodoo Chile (Slight Return)!


34 posted on 02/18/2007 8:47:52 PM PST by Hoosier-Daddy (God Damn the Democrat Party!)
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To: peteram

I like that one too -I think a lot of worship leaders have been almost hit on the chin with that one.

I go to a fabulous EV Free church after years in the Calvary Chapel churches. There is an amazing blend of hymns and contemporary. I'm excited that my daughter will get to hear old school songs, maybe a little more upbeat than how I learned them, but to have our generations "Gaither" style worship too.


(And I LOVE the saxaphone in our worship) and can't wait to hear the worship when we do arrive in heaven.


35 posted on 02/18/2007 8:49:53 PM PST by justche (Freedom and Security go together - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Fairview

I just like the sermons as well.


36 posted on 02/18/2007 8:50:51 PM PST by miliantnutcase ("If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it." -ichabod1)
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To: freedomdefender

Angels certainly exist, but if they do join us in singing, they would not sound like ordinary human beings.

I am somewhat skeptical here.


37 posted on 02/18/2007 8:53:26 PM PST by rwfromkansas (http://xanga.com/rwfromkansas)
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To: Jessarah

There are some great modern praise songs.

Some not so good ones as well.

For me personally, I attend a church that only sings the OT Psalms.

It is different, but I love it more than my old hymn-singing church.

The Psalms are so beautiful. But, that doesn't mean I don't sing a hymn sometimes. :)


38 posted on 02/18/2007 8:55:52 PM PST by rwfromkansas (http://xanga.com/rwfromkansas)
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To: leenie312

Thank you leenie.

Also, If I may interject something here. Most of us believe that we have Guardian Angels (and, no - not the one's wearing red berets) around us. Some even think that we each have our own personal Guardian. A very learned Christian gentleman once said that if a person living in faith invokes the name of the Lord - whether in music or spoken word - then the Angels must act on your behalf. In Psalm 91:11-12 it says:

"For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways;
they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone."

So all the more reason it makes sense that when Angels hear us praising God with such fervor, they would naturally join in. Because they worsip Hiom as much (if not more) than we do.

And I'm sure the style of music doesnt much matter to them. In the Kansas City recording I heard a bass and drums.




39 posted on 02/18/2007 8:57:00 PM PST by peteram
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To: Nihil Obstat

Thank you for that post... beautiful, informative and uplifting.


40 posted on 02/18/2007 8:57:32 PM PST by antceecee (Western countries really aren't up to winning this war on terror... it might offend the terrorists.)
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To: Luke Skyfreeper

There is a lot of crappy worship music.....the "me me me" spirit of many modern "worship" is disgusting.

But, there is a great variety of amazing songs that just make you fall to the ground as well.

Not all old hymns are deep or solid either. Some are awful.

There is going to be bad with every age of music.


41 posted on 02/18/2007 8:58:22 PM PST by rwfromkansas (http://xanga.com/rwfromkansas)
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To: Fairview

Where would you go to?


42 posted on 02/18/2007 8:58:59 PM PST by 353FMG (I never met a liberal I didn't dislike.)
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To: Mr. Mojo

You forgot to mention Clifford Brown's "Joy Spring" specially composed, arranged and directed to accompany angels in their song. You also forgot Handel's "Messiah".


43 posted on 02/18/2007 9:03:38 PM PST by 353FMG (I never met a liberal I didn't dislike.)
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To: peteram
Amen! Reminds me of the lyrics to one of my favorite contemporary worship songs:

That "Heart of worship" song is loved by many; but I have trouble singing the part where you apologize for "the thing I've made it" (because I haven't made it a thing) -- if I say those words, I'm just mouthing it (vain repetition). That is a song for a soloist who has "made it a thing", IMO.

I love a blend of old hymns (for their strong doctrinal orientation) and new choruses like "Breathe", "He is exalted", et al. For me, the blend is essential for maintaining the continuity between past and present. It's all the Body of Christ and ought not to be lost or neglected.

44 posted on 02/18/2007 9:05:40 PM PST by Migraine (...diversity is great (until it happens to you)...)
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To: Fairview

It's all about bringing in the younger generation.


45 posted on 02/18/2007 9:07:19 PM PST by endthematrix (Both poverty and riches are the offspring of thought.)
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To: freedomdefender

I believe in angels


46 posted on 02/18/2007 9:09:36 PM PST by Big Horn (Life is a sexually transmitted disease that is 100% fatal . Author unknown)
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To: justche
Find something real to be upset about at church besides how other people are worshiping the Lord!

It's interesting, but I'm apparently not the only one who feels this way. Ten years ago when the church had a mixture of old and new music, nicely arranged, I sang up a storm along with everyone else. There was some great music, very uplifting and exciting, and I'd love to have that experience again. Now many or most of the folks in the church are singing in an unenthusiastic way. By the time the fourth repetition of the lyrics is sung, the choir is on its own and the congregation isn't singing at all, just kind of mumbling along and hoping they can sit down soon. The only time they wake up is when there's a performance by some professional gospel singer who knows how to bring it. So I'm not the only one who finds herself unable to concentrate on worship with this music; the rest of the congregation is annoyed too.

All you'll care about in Heaven is about worshipping God - and if that's singing old time hymns, then belt it out with vigor, and if all that comes to mind is this new stuff, then sing it with gusto - but the point of worship is supposed to be God centered, not self-centeredness.

No need for insults. I was just kidding; lighten up. I bet that when we're really in heaven the singing will be like nothing we've heard on this earth. Probably it will be most like the more ecstatic passages of Handel, who, as he wrote "Messiah," said tearfully that he could see heaven.

47 posted on 02/18/2007 9:11:15 PM PST by Fairview ( Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.)
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To: freedomdefender
1. Were any of them on the head of a pin?

2. Did any of them explain who the dead kid in Three Men and a Baby was?

48 posted on 02/18/2007 9:12:32 PM PST by Clemenza (NO to Rudy in 2008! New York's Values are NOT America's Values!)
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To: icwhatudo

The catholic church believes God did all these miracles and had angels visit long ago and now we must go on faith.

Mormans believe we can and do still talk to God It is the prime difference between the two as I understand it.

The RC believes we must live on faith and the mormons believe we still have God with us.

I heard somewhere some time back the last pope noted that. Said if we are right, their wrong and vice a versa.


49 posted on 02/18/2007 9:12:37 PM PST by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: freedomdefender

Rodney Howard-Browne is on one of the tapes. To learn more about him, listen to Hanegraff's Counterfeit Revival where he (RHB) instructs people not to pray but just received the experience that they were receiving.

To these tapes, aside from the one with RHB I remain open minded- particularly the one with China and the Kansas one. I won't say that they are real, but I won't say they aren't either. Beautiful sounds. The one in Maryland sounds like the Choir sound though on the Kurzweil piano.


50 posted on 02/18/2007 9:13:06 PM PST by Blogger
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