The Visible Church Was There All Along

To: fortheDeclaration

You said..
"Catholic means 'universal' which if a person is a Christian, he is part of, the universal church, one body."

Dear Friend,
You are connected to the Catholic Church still in some way- you are our Separated Brothers and Sisters (a community of believers)and the Church accepts you as attached to it through valid Baptism and such.

Here,see for yourself.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html
Excerpt;
But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church-for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church-whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church-do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(22)

Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.

It follows that the separated Churches(23) and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.

Nevertheless, our separated brethren, whether considered as individuals or as Communities

you also said
"That is not the Roman Catholic Church which is a particular denomination and even many of them do not call themselves Christians."

Nonsense!
Lets see you come up with official Vatican documents that say such ridiculous things?

I wish you a Blessed day!

201 posted on 02/27/2007 8:34:13 AM PST by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)

To: Zionist Conspirator

You said
"What your Nazarene prophet did or did not teach is not my concern"

It should be a concern to you ,because the Jews who followed Jesus knew that He is the Messiah.
The Jews that followed Jesus knew their Scriptures very well.

Dear Friend,
The Typology of Scripture is overwheming-Jesus is God!

Here...

General Prophecies Concerning the Coming of Jesus
Gen. 49:10; Mic. 5:2 - a kingdom and ruler of Israel shall come from Judah - Mattt. 1:1-2, Luke 3:23,33 - Jesus is from the line of Judah.

Deut. 18:18 - He will be raised up as a prophet - Matt. 21:11, Luke 7:16; John 6:14; 7:40 - Jesus is identified as this prophet.

Psalm 2:6 - He will be a King - Matt. 21:5; John 18:36-37 - Jesus is this King.

Psalm 2:7 - you are my Son, today I have begotten you - Matt. 3:17; Acts 13:33 - God the Father said this about Jesus the Son.

Psalm 69:4; Isaiah 49:7 - He will be hated without a cause - John 15:25 - Jesus was hated without a cause.

Psalm 69:9 - zeal for thy house has consumed me - John 2:16-17 - zeal consumed Jesus as He drove out the traders.

Psalm 78:2 - He will speak in parables - Matt. 13:34-35 - Jesus spoke in parables.

Psalm 110:1; Jer. 23:6 - He will be called Lord - Matt. 22:43-45; Luke 2:11; Heb. 1:10 - Jesus is called Lord by the Lord.

Psalm 118:22; Isaiah 8:14; 28:16 - He will be the stone rejected by the builders - Acts 4:10-11; Rom. 9:32-33; 1 Peter 2:7-8 - Jesus is the stone rejected by the builders.

Psalm 118:26; Hag.2:7-9; Mal. 3:1 - He will come to the Temple - Matt. 21:12; John 2:13-17 - Jesus so came to the Temple.

Psalm 132:11; Jer. 23:5 - He, the king, shall come from the House of David - Matt. 1:1; Luke 3:23,31 - Jesus is the son of David.

Isaiah 6:9-10 - they hear but do not understand and see but do not perceive - Matt. 13:14-15; John 12:38-41 - this is why Jesus used parables.

Isaiah 7:14 - He will be born of a young virgin woman - Matt. 1:18, 24-25; Luke 1:26-35 - Jesus was born of the young virgin Mary.

Isaiah 9:1 - His ministry will make Galilee glorious - Matt 4:12-17 - Jesus begins His ministry in Galilee.

Isaiah 9:6 - a woman shall bear a son called Emmanuel ("God is with us") - Luke 1:35 - Jesus is this one, the Son of God.

Isaiah 11:2 - the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him - Matt. 3:16-17 - the Spirit of God descended upon Jesus like a dove.

Isaiah 32:3-4; 35:5-6- His ministry will include miracles curing the blind, deaf, lame and dumb - Matt. 9:32-35 - Jesus so cured the blind, deaf, lame and dumb.

Isaiah 33:22 - He will be a judge - John 5:30 - Jesus is the judge who judges justly.

Isaiah 40:3; Mal. 3:1 - He will be preceded by a messenger - Mat. 3:1-3; 11:10; Luke 1:17; John 1:23 - Jesus was so preceded (by Saint John the Baptist).

Isaiah 53:3 - He will be rejected by His people - John 1:11; 7:5 - Jesus was rejected by His own people.

Isaiah 61:1-2 - the Spirit of the Lord is upon Him - Luke 4:21 - Jesus says that He has fulfilled this prophecy.

Zech. 9:9 - He will triumphantly enter Jerusalem on an ass - Matt. 21:5; Luke 19:35-38; John 12:14-17 - Jesus so entered Jerusalem.

Mic. 5:2 - Israel's ruler shall come from Bethlehem - Matt. 2:1,4-8; Luke 2:4-7 - Jesus was born in Bethlehem.

Prophecies Fulfilled by Jesus in His Passion, Death, Resurrection and Ascension
Psalm 16:10; 30:3 - He will not be spared from death and yet remain incorrupt - Acts 2:31; 13:33,35 - Jesus conquered death and remained incorrupt.

Psalm 22:1 - My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me? - Matt. 27:46; Mark 15:34 - Jesus utters this rabbinical formula from the cross declaring that He is the Messiah.

Psalm 22:7 - the people will wag their heads at Him - Matt. 27:39; Mark 15:29 - the people wagged their heads at Jesus on the cross.

Psalm 22:7 - He will be mocked - Matt. 27:31; Mark 15:20; Luke 22:63; 23:36 - Jesus was mocked.

Psalm 22:16; Isa. 53:12 - He will be numbered with the transgressors - Matt. 27:38; Mark 15:27; Luke 23:32; John 19:18 - Jesus was numbered with the transgressors by being crucified between two thieves.

Psalm 22:16; Zech 12:10 - His hands and feet will be pierced and they will weep for the first-born - John 19:23,34,37 - Jesus' hands and feet were pierced and his followers wept for Him, the true first-born Son of Israel.

Psalm 22:17 - they will stare and gloat over Him - Matt. 27:36; Luke 23:35 - the people stood by and stared at Jesus on the cross.

Psalm 22:18 - they will divide His garments among them - Matt. 27:35; Mark 15:24; Luke 23:34; John 19:23 - they divided Jesus' garments among them.

Psalm 22:18 - they will cast lots for His garments - Matt. 27:35; Mark 15:24; Luke 23:34; John 19:24 - they cast lots for Jesus' garments.

Psalm 30:3; 41:10, 118:17; Hos 6:2 - He will be raised to life on the third day - Acts 13:33, Matt. 28:6; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:34,46 - Jesus was raised to life on the third day.

Psalm 34:20 - He will not have broken bones - John 19:33,36 - none of Jesus' bones were broken.

Psalm 41:9; 55:12-14 - He will be betrayed by a friend - Matt. 10:4; 26:20-25; Mark 14:18-21; John 13:18 - Jesus was betrayed by a friend.

Psalm 68:18 - He will ascend into heaven - Mark 16:19; Luke 24:51; John 20:17; Acts 1:9 - Jesus ascended into heaven.

Psalm 68:20 - He will escape the powers of death - Acts 2:31; 13:33; Matt 28:6; Mark 16:6, Luke 24:46; John 20:9-10 - Jesus escaped the powers of death through his resurrection.

Psalm 69:21 - they will give Him vinegar to drink - Matt. 27:34,48; Mark 15:23,36; Luke 23:36; John 19:29 - they gave Jesus vinegar to drink.

Psalm 110:1 - He will sit at the right hand of God - Heb. 1:3; Acts 2:34-35 - Jesus sits at the right hand of God.

Isaiah 50:6 - He will be spat upon - Matt. 26:67; Mark 15:19 - Jesus was spat upon.

Isaiah 50:6; Mic. 5:1 - the ruler of Israel's cheek will be struck - Matt. 26:67; Luke 22:63; John 18:22 - Jesus was so struck and beaten.

Isaiah 53:5; Zech. 13:6 - He was wounded, bruised and scourged for us - Matt. 27:26; Mark 15:15; John 19:1 - Jesus was wounded, bruised and scourged for us.

Isaiah 53:7 - He will remain silent before His accusers - Matt. 27:12,14; Mark 14:61;15:5; Luke 23:9; John 19:9 - Jesus remained silent before His accusers.

Isaiah 53:8-10; Dan. 9:26 - the anointed one shall be cut off and die - Luke 23:46; 24:7; John 19:30 - Jesus the Messiah died.

Isaiah 53:9 - He will be buried in a rich man's tomb - Matt. 27:57-60; Mark 15:42-46; Luke 23:50-53; John 19:38-42 - Jesus was buried in a rich man's tomb (the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea).

Isaiah 53:12 - He will make intercession for the transgressors - Luke 23:34,43 - Jesus made intercession for the transgressors on the cross.

Amos 8:9 - God will darken the earth at noon - Matt. 27:45; Mark 15:33; Luke 23:44-45 - there was darkness at noon at Jesus' crucifixion and death.

Jonah 1:17 - three nights and days in the belly of the whale foreshadows Jesus' death and rising on the third day.

Mic. 1:8 - He will lament and wail, and will go stripped and naked - John 19:23-24 - Jesus lamented and was stripped and naked.

Zech. 11:12-13 - He will be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver - Matt. 26:15 - Jesus was betrayed for 30 pieces of silver.

Zech. 11:13 - the pieces of silver are cast into God's house - Matt. 27:5 - Judas threw the pieces of silver into the Temple.

Zech. 12:10 - His side will be pierced - John 19:34, 37 - Jesus' side was pierced.

Zech. 13:7 - He will be forsaken by His disciples who will scatter - Matt. 26:31, Mark. 14:50 - Jesus' disciples forsook Him and scattered.

202 posted on 02/27/2007 8:49:34 AM PST by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)

To: stfassisi; fortheDeclaration; Forest Keeper; wmfights; HarleyD; 1000 silverlings; Blogger; ...

You are connected to the Catholic Church still in some way- you are our Separated Brothers and Sisters (a community of believers)and the Church accepts you as attached to it through valid Baptism and such.

THANKS, BUT NO THANKS

204 posted on 02/27/2007 12:15:10 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)

Thanks. I had not seen it all laid out like that.

205 posted on 02/27/2007 12:52:36 PM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)

206 posted on 02/27/2007 1:41:40 PM PST by blue-duncan

To: stfassisi; Dr. Eckleburg

Thank you for your post.

However, you have it backwards.

If indeed you have trusted in the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ for your salvation and only in it, then you are our brother/sister in Christ through spiritual baptism (1Cor.12:13), even though you are a Roman Catholic.

A Roman Catholic is not a Christian, but there are Christians who are Roman Catholics and have not separated themselves from an apostate system.

207 posted on 02/27/2007 1:59:51 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (For what saith the scripture? (Rom.4:3))

To: fortheDeclaration

A Roman Catholic is not a Christian

Dear Brother/Sister

May God have mercy on your Soul! You are BLIND!

Perhaps I,ll address you later. I have a busy week ahead of me for now.

Peace in Jesus Christ

208 posted on 02/27/2007 2:14:19 PM PST by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)

To: William Terrell; blue-duncan

Here is a chart on the Typology of Moses and Jesus.

http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/charts/Typology%20of%20Moses%20and%20Jesus.htm

I must tell you though- the Typology on The Eucharist is even more impressive.

If you want to see it let me know?

I wish you both a Blessed Evening!

209 posted on 02/27/2007 2:24:39 PM PST by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)

To: Dr. Eckleburg

THANKS, BUT NO THANKS

LOL! Pretty good, Dr. E. :)

210 posted on 02/27/2007 2:56:45 PM PST by Forest Keeper

Thanks for the link.

I'm sure that there are lots of intricate discussions about scripture mentioning the ritual of the bread and wine.

Simplicity, my friend.

What you eat and drink physically becomes part of your body. What you eat and drink spiritually becomes part of you. That's all there is to it, beyond just doing the ritual as a symbol for spiritual commitment.

John 6, somewhere around 40.

Jesus spoke in parables, even to His disciples.

211 posted on 02/27/2007 8:45:03 PM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)

To: William Terrell

What you eat and drink physically becomes part of your body. What you eat and drink spiritually becomes part of you. That's all there is to it,

Sorry Brother, its much deeper than that. ALL(NOT EVEN ONE EXCEPTION) the Early Christians knew the Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of our Lord. Look.... http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/father/a5.html

212 posted on 02/27/2007 8:57:41 PM PST by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)

Roman Catholic is not a Christian Dear Brother/Sister May God have mercy on your Soul! You are BLIND! Perhaps I,ll address you later. I have a busy week ahead of me for now. Peace in Jesus Christ

No, you are blind to think that a Roman Catholic is a Christian.

A Christian is 'born again' by faith alone in Christ alone, without the deeds of the law.

Now what Catholic believes that?

213 posted on 02/27/2007 9:09:32 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (For what saith the scripture? (Rom.4:3))

alright, classic revisionist history....with a lot of hearsay thrown in to boot... try again. No need to, it is the truth. YES, THAT IS OBVIOUS FROM YOUR LACK OF EVIDENCE TO BACK UP YOUR ASSERTION. And you guys know that nothing in the New Testament is close to the RCC! IT IS ALL THE RCC! Now, I can find the RCC in the New Testament, but not as the church of Christ, but as a corruption of it(Matthew 13) and its end (Rev.17) NO, YOU FIND THE 'CORRUPTION' WITH YOUR STRAINED EISIGESIS....WHICH IS UNBIBLICAL...BUT SO IS MOST OF YOUR STUNTED CHRISTIAN FAITH

Now, lets get serious!

The RCC rejects Sola Scriptura and adds tradition to its religion (Mk.7:7).

The RCC that you see today has nothing to do with any New Testament practices.

214 posted on 02/27/2007 9:11:57 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (For what saith the scripture? (Rom.4:3))

you also said "That is not the Roman Catholic Church which is a particular denomination and even many of them do not call themselves Christians."

I have heard Catholics distinguish between themselves and 'Christians'.

It may not be 'official' RCC doctrine.

As for coming up with Vatican Documents, the Vatican has a document to take any side on any issue.

215 posted on 02/27/2007 9:14:56 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (For what saith the scripture? (Rom.4:3))

To: fortheDeclaration

I don,t care for the way your post #215 reads

This quote from you...

you also said "That is not the Roman Catholic Church which is a particular denomination and even many of them do not call themselves Christians."

I did not write this! You wrote this!

I pray this is just a mistake on your part but,nothing would surprise me coming from anti Catholics such as yourself!

216 posted on 02/28/2007 4:39:31 AM PST by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)

I do not know why you are confused, the statement makes it clear that you are citing my earlier statement regarding Catholics and Christians being seen as different.

I do not think anyone reading it would think that you are making that statement since the phrase 'you also said' precedes it.

It is interesting though how quickly you changed from a 'sweet' Catholic to one that is attacking me personally as an 'anti-Catholic'.

I am not 'anti' anything.

I am pro Christ and the Bible.

217 posted on 02/28/2007 5:02:20 AM PST by fortheDeclaration (For what saith the scripture? (Rom.4:3))

you also said "That is not the Roman Catholic Church which is a particular denomination and even many of them do not call themselves Christians."

That is directly from your post.

I did not alter it in anyway.

Since the all the words are in italics no one should have any problem knowing I am responding to your response.

218 posted on 02/28/2007 5:07:30 AM PST by fortheDeclaration (For what saith the scripture? (Rom.4:3))

Methinks you may have struck a nerve.

Appears so...That seems to be easy to do...

219 posted on 02/28/2007 5:17:25 AM PST by Iscool (There will be NO peace on earth, NOR good will toward men UNTIL there is Glory to God in the Highest)

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